Video of kid accidentally shooting self will be shown at trial. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252393]Of course. But there is a link between gun homicide rates and homicide rates.[/QUOTE] there is also a link between knife homicide rates and homicide rates

Shit happens.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252373]First: Switzerland.[/QUOTE] Huh? [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252373]Second: We still have far more poverty than any of those countries. I was more making a point at the happiness and well being of our people, if you have so many people living in poverty, you have more crime. It's a trend that that entire homicide list follows.[/QUOTE] According to the UN, Italy has a very high poverty rate, and yet they have much smaller gun homicide rate. Also having said that, England has a marginally smaller poverty rate than the US, yet there is a huge discrepancy in gun homicide rates.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252393]Of course. But there is a link between gun homicide rates and homicide rates.[/QUOTE] Herp derp there is a link between A and AB!

[QUOTE=Juniez;27252407]there is also a link between knife homicide rates and homicide rates[/QUOTE] Yes, but lack of gun control pushes homicide rates up a lot more than lack of knife control. Guns are a lesser problem than knives. The UK is tackled one, and is now tackling the other. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;27252453]Herp derp there is a link between A and AB![/QUOTE] Haha My point was that lax gun control push the homicide rate up.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252458] Haha My point was that lax gun control push the homicide rate up.[/QUOTE] not in all cases

[QUOTE=Juniez;27252479]not in all cases[/QUOTE] Uhh, no kidding. Just like how when you eat, you don't always die.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252458]Yes, but lack of gun control pushes homicide rates up a lot more than lack of knife control. Guns are a larger problem than knives in the heavily regulated UK.[/QUOTE] Even though the UK has this lack of "gun culture" that you seem to hate so much, and some pretty heavy gun control. It's worth noting that increasing gun control in the US has shown to have very little effect on actual homicide rates and gun crime in general. Oddly, when the laws become less strict, the gun crime actually drops.

[QUOTE=Ridge;27251266] Pakistan Ordinance Factory (POF) is a primary maker of firearms on licensed HK production lines. Pakistan is also home to a variety of militant groups that have no qualms about employing child conscripts.[/QUOTE] Ahhh, that would be a good bet, thank you.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252445]Huh? According to the UN, Italy has a very high poverty rate, and yet they have much smaller gun homicide rate. Also having said that, England has a marginally smaller poverty rate than the US, yet there is a huge discrepancy in gun homicide rates.[/QUOTE] Switzerland. I'm just saying, man, Switzerland. So many guns, so few deaths. Anyway, England has intentionally botched its crime rate statistics for some time and has admitted to it, so I don't really trust anything they say about their crime (if I recall, if there was a triple murder suicide they would count it as one murder). As for Italy, it's a small country, with a largely homogeneous population (same with England), America is a huge country, with a lot of people that don't like each other all stuffed into one place. If you couple that with a large percent of people living in poverty you have a recipe for disaster. I'm not placing the blame on there being black people or Mexicans there, I'm not making that connotation, the problem is in the fact that a lot of other people do make this connotation, and tensions boil over, people are oppressed, cultures of violence are upheld, and shit goes down.

wow this is a bad thread. Europeans saying "blah blah americans and their gun culture they're so scared of everything" and Americans saying "no our gun-obsession is just an entirely pointless hobby so you're wrong etc." This is some serious Deja Vu. Of every thread ever made on any forum ever. Also I don't know anything about anything but I thought the reason that people in america owned guns was this: [quote]Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. ---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787). [/quote] Or to put that in layman's terms, the people of America must be at least well armed enough to be a constant potential threat to their own government, so as to avoid fascism and dictatorship. Obviously an armed populace alone can't accomplish this; the third reich had very lax gun laws. An educated, skeptical and [i]some other adjective for smart[/i] society is also important, and it's something America very clearly lacks. Most Americans who own guns own them for all the wrong reasons, and the ones who own them for the reasons I just described are treated as homicidal fringe lunatics. On the actual subject of the thread, that's a damn tragedy, but I don't see the point in putting a man with a family in jail over it. I don't see how it'll accomplish anything, other than throwing his innocent family into poverty. I mean, could someone explain to me what prison accomplishes?

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;27252501]Even though the UK has this lack of "gun culture" that you seem to hate so much, and some pretty heavy gun control.[/QUOTE] Oops! I obviously didn't mean that. [QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;27252501]It's worth noting that increasing gun control in the US has shown to have very little effect on actual homicide rates and gun crime in general. Oddly, when the laws become less strict, the gun crime actually drops.[/QUOTE] I personally have no idea what will work in the United States. The gun culture is so heavily embedded in the fabric of the US, they might have to do something completely different.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252445]According to the UN, Italy has a very high poverty rate, and yet they have much smaller gun homicide rate. Also having said that, England has a marginally smaller poverty rate than the US, yet there is a huge discrepancy in gun homicide rates.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOhYQt-t6lI[/media]

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252458] My point was that lax gun control push the homicide rate up.[/QUOTE] It's also irrelevant. The second amendment has nothing to do with crime or defense against it and everything to do with countering the government. Seeing as the intention of the amendment is to stop the government from controlling firearms, letting the government control firearms would be silly. It would, if you will forgive the crude comparison, be something akin to allowing burglars control over burglary laws. Seeing as the laws are intended to stop burglars, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to hand total control over those laws to burglars, does it? This is what you aren't understanding about the second amendment and firearms in general. They are, in effect, a law of sorts. It is the check on all other branches of government. Albeit one, thankfully, used relatively infrequently for its intended purpose.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252533]Switzerland. I'm just saying, man, Switzerland. So many guns, so few deaths.[/QUOTE] Different culture, lower population, smarter and less homicide generally than the United States. Guns aren't a problem there, but they're a clear problem in the US. [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252533]Anyway, England has intentionally botched its crime rate statistics for some time and has admitted to it, so I don't really trust anything they say about their crime (if I recall, if there was a triple murder suicide they would count it as one murder).[/quote] Don't know about that. :| [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252533](same with England), America is a huge country, with a lot of people that don't like each other all stuffed into one place. If you couple that with a large percent of people living in poverty you have a recipe for disaster.[/quote] Cough cough. This isn't the case. Poverty is very similar in England as it is in the US. Infact it's so not the case, the UK is planning or has introduced Sharia Courts. London Bombings?

[QUOTE=Ridge;27252603][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOhYQt-t6lI[/media][/QUOTE] Yeah I visited Italy once, was exactly like that. Fucking weird place.

[QUOTE=GunFox;27252626]It's also irrelevant. The second amendment has nothing to do with crime or defense against it and everything to do with countering the government. [/QUOTE] I'm not making suggestions on how to fix the problem (that are within the confounds of the ancient 2nd Amendment), but saying that there is something wrong with the culture in the US. What I have said is that gun control has worked in other countries.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638] Cough cough. This isn't the case. Poverty is very similar in England as it is in the US. Infact it's so not the case, the UK is planning or has introduced Sharia Courts. [/QUOTE] Poverty alone doesn't cause it. Poverty and a lack of education cause it. Those two combined are the problem. Simply being poor or being uneducated do not necessarily cause crime to increase. Funding for US schools is a joke. The curriculum is equally pathetic.

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy18;27235814]I think the only person at fault here is the kid[/QUOTE] for some reason i doubt you can blame an 8 year old for much anything

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252672]I'm not making suggestions on how to fix the problem (that are within the confounds of the ancient 2nd Amendment), but saying that there is something wrong with the culture in the US. What I have said is that gun control has worked in other countries.[/QUOTE] Countries that do not have a document laying out the limitations and expectations of their elected governments.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638]Different culture, lower population, smarter and less homicide generally than the United States. Guns aren't a problem there, but they're a clear problem in the US.[/QUOTE] Guns aren't a problem in the US, there are far, FAR bigger problems than guns. Government and corporate corruption is probably a good candidate for #1, right next to the poverty level. [QUOTE=DogGunn;27252583]I personally have no idea what will work in the United States. The gun culture is so heavily embedded in the fabric of the US, they might have to do something completely different.[/QUOTE] They are doing something completely different, they try to erode away at gun ownership until it doesn't exist anymore. Only they have opponents that say they can't do that. Just a few years ago a federal ban on the sale of black powder was put in place because it is somehow more dangerous than smokeless powder (It's not). Now, black powder is that stuff you use in muzzleloading MUSKETS and some early cartridge firearms. That's just one example of this erosion I speak of. The whole ban was based on sealed cans of black powder possibly being ignited by static electricity, which is quite impossible. I've even demonstrated this on several occasions by using a stun gun on a pile of powder for several seconds, it simply doesn't ignite, the entire ban was based on a lie.

[QUOTE=GunFox;27252688]Poverty alone doesn't cause it. Poverty and a lack of education cause it. Those two combined are the problem. Simply being poor or being uneducated do not necessarily cause crime to increase.[/QUOTE] I said that already. The gun culture is the result of this. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;27252702]Countries that do not have a document laying out the limitations and expectations of their elected governments.[/QUOTE] And what's your point? (P.S. All countries have a constution...) Guns are still a problem in the US, just a solution needs to be found that is within the confounds of this antiquidated clause.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252705]Guns are still a problem in the US, just a solution needs to be found that is within the confounds of this antiquidated clause.[/QUOTE] Constitutional amendments don't become antiquated when it's convenient for you, doesn't work that way.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252705]still a problem in the US, just a solution needs to be found that is within the confounds of this antiquidated clause.[/QUOTE] Ditto for the 1st and 4th Amendments (since you probably do not know, that is freedom of speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, respectively), since those just allow radicals to say whatever hateful lies they want, and slows down criminal investigations by not allowing police to barge in and take whatever they want.

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;27252747]Constitutional amendments don't become antiquated when it's convenient for you, doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE] Huh? I was referring to the principal, not the age of the amendment. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;27252764]Ditto for the 1st and 4th Amendments (since you probably do not know, that is freedom of speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, respectively)[/QUOTE] I don't believe in limitless freedom of speech either. But that's a different story. Why wouldn't I know though?

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638]Different culture, lower population, smarter and less homicide generally than the United States. Guns aren't a problem there, but they're a clear problem in the US.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638]Different culture[/QUOTE] Same here, bro. [QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638]Don't know about that. :|[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Crime_Survey#Criticism[/url] [QUOTE=DogGunn;27252638]Cough cough. This isn't the case. Poverty is very similar in England as it is in the US. Infact it's so not the case, the UK is planning or has introduced Sharia Courts. London Bombings?[/QUOTE] Cough Cough. Yeah it is. You think years of oppression of various groups of people haven't had any effect on crime at all? England doesn't really have that, plus, again, they are a smaller country. The US is a melting pot, the problem is, however, sometimes people don't melt. This is pretty fucking evident by segregation. And again, couple that with our poverty level, you get problems. And yeah, London Bombings. What about them?

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252672]I'm not making suggestions on how to fix the problem (that are within the confounds of the ancient 2nd Amendment), but saying that there is something wrong with the culture in the US. What I have said is that gun control has worked in other countries.[/QUOTE] And I'm saying that those are other countries. Australian level gun control in the United States would result in civil war. Rightfully so. I'd take up arms and die to defend that right. Furthermore you are making grand assumptions about the homicide rates in the United States. You have zero evidence which links firearms and homicide rates. The United States is, plainly put, one of the most ethnically diverse (Not intended as a brag. We are simply geographically large and in the middle of a lot of cultures of widely varying origin) nations on the planet. We have EVERYONE. That is a whole lot of different cultures living under the same flag. Would constant cultural tension not also be a possible cause? Or the poverty and education problems? The United States is not a European nation. It is not Australia. It is more ethnically diverse, politically complicated, and is geographically larger than any single nation in either of those places. You are nations that have been broken down into smaller "chunks" (states, provinces, territories, etc), we are states which have United. It is a subtle, but extremely important difference. The US Federal government gets final say on matters so that we have a unified face, but do not forget that we are still many hands operating as one.

[QUOTE=Ridge;27252764]Ditto for the 1st and 4th Amendments (since you probably do not know, that is freedom of speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, respectively), since those just allow radicals to say whatever hateful lies they want, and slows down criminal investigations by not allowing police to barge in and take whatever they want.[/QUOTE] Thankfully, TSA agents are now required to either [i]see[/i] or [i]feel[/i] your cock every time you fly on an airplane. Fuck the constitution!

[quote=mr_razzums;27246314]my god. Almost every kid there has their finger on the trigger.[/quote] ... BOo!

[QUOTE=GunFox;27252821]And I'm saying that those are other countries. Australian level gun control in the United States would result in civil war. Rightfully so. I'd take up arms and die to defend that right. Furthermore you are making grand assumptions about the homicide rates in the United States. You have zero evidence which links firearms and homicide rates. The United States is, plainly put, one of the most ethnically diverse (Not intended as a brag. We are simply geographically large and in the middle of a lot of cultures of widely varying origin) nations on the planet. We have EVERYONE. That is a whole lot of different cultures living under the same flag. Would constant cultural tension not also be a possible cause? Or the poverty and education problems? The United States is not a European nation. It is not Australia. It is more ethnically diverse, politically complicated, and is geographically larger than any single nation in either of those places. You are nations that have been broken down into smaller "chunks" (states, provinces, territories, etc), we are states which have United. It is a subtle, but extremely important difference. The US Federal government gets final say on matters so that we have a unified face, but do not forget that we are still many hands operating as one.[/QUOTE] Thank you for putting everything I've been stumbling over myself trying to say for the past page into one eloquent post. You magnificent bastard.