Video of kid accidentally shooting self will be shown at trial. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252786]Same here, bro.[/QUOTE] But guns are a problem in the US. Different culture, different solution. [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252786]Cough Cough. Yeah it is. You think years of oppression of various groups of people haven't had any effect on crime at all? England doesn't really have that, plus, again, they are a smaller country. The US is a melting pot, the problem is, however, sometimes people don't melt. This is pretty fucking evident by segregation. And again, couple that with our poverty level, you get problems.[/quote] There's a huge amount of segregation between groups in England. I think you're kidding yourself when you say England isn't a "melting pot". Also: 17-18% of the population are found to be in poverty at any one time consistently, from 1994-2004. Source: BBC News Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% of Americans living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time (Wiki) [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252786]And yeah, London Bombings. What about them?[/QUOTE] My point was, England is also a "melting pot" of cultures - and resulted in the London Bombings.

[QUOTE=GunFox;27252821]Australian level gun control in the United States would result in civil war. Rightfully so. I'd take up arms and die to defend that right.[/QUOTE] you severely over-estimate the american people. One or two guys like you would go out and shoot a few cops, maybe practice a little arson, and the media would blame 100% of it on videogames. It would go nowhere, and I know they could do it right now and it would be met with roaring applause by almost everyone because the media has been conditioning us to meet it with roaring applause for a few decades or so now.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252948]There's a huge amount of segregation between groups in England. I think you're kidding yourself when you say England isn't a "melting pot". Also: 17-18% of the population are found to be in poverty at any one time consistently, from 1994-2004. Source: BBC News Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% of Americans living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time (Wiki)[/QUOTE] Go look at the demographics between the US and England. Go do it. Now, go look. Pretty huge difference. The entire country is basically a whiteboard. Also, I'm saying that the poverty level, COUPLED, with the cultural tensions, are part of the cause here. Not poverty levels alone. It is impossible to compare the US to these tiny little nations out in Europe, it's far too massive both culturally and demographically (is that the right word? I mean the size of the population, in case it isn't). [QUOTE=DogGunn;27252948]My point was, England is also a "melting pot" of cultures - and resulted in the London Bombings.[/QUOTE] Yes they are a melting pot to an extent, but nowhere near the extent that the US is. This also partially proves my point that cultural tensions lead to violence. Thanks.

[QUOTE=GunFox;27252821]Furthermore you are making grand assumptions about the homicide rates in the United States. You have zero evidence which links firearms and homicide rates. [/QUOTE] There's no way to show a link between homicide rates and firearms without involving other countries, and you're obviously not going to allow that to be used as an example. What I don't understand is how it's possible to deny there is a problem with guns? If there's cultural tensions, why would you give them weapons of any sorts? [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27252991]Go look at the demographics between the US and England. Go do it. Now, go look. Pretty huge difference. The entire country is basically a whiteboard.[/QUOTE] Both the US and England are about 80-85% White. It's really not as large of a difference as you think.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252996]There's no way to show a link between homicide rates and firearms without involving other countries, and you're obviously not going to allow that to be used as an example. What I don't understand is how it's possible to deny there is a problem with guns? If there's cultural tensions, why would you give them weapons of any sorts? [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] Both the US and England are about 80-85% White. It's really not as large of a difference as you think.[/QUOTE] The US is around 70% white with a much larger population. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] Also there still is that whole declining violent crime in general thing that we can't just really walk around here. Sure, gun crime may be the same, but all that means is guns are still being used for violent crime as they logically would be, but if the total is going down then someone must be doing something right. Your chances of being shot in the US are ridiculously low, gun crime is really one of our smallest problems right now.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;27242491]No. It's called a business.[/QUOTE] "Herpaderp I want to make money so I'll sell poison to children" :downs: Just because it's a business doesn't mean they'd give a gun to an 8-year-old, and if they would, they'd definitely tell him how to use it properly first.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252996]What I don't understand is how it's possible to deny there is a problem with guns?[/QUOTE] That's because there is no problem. As stated earlier, accidental death involving a motor vehicle is an immensely bigger problem. Aside from that, you have government and corporate corruption and poverty in the lower class. Saying guns are a problem in the US is like saying the loose cabinet door in your house is a problem while you have a gas leak in your garage. [QUOTE]If there's cultural tensions, why would you give them weapons of any sorts?[/QUOTE] Because unless they have a prior criminal record that says that can't own a gun, they have the right to own one.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27253052]The US is around 70% white with a much larger population.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#cite_ref-Cen2008_127-4[/url] 79%? Anyway, it's a percentage of population.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252125]Why? Look at any other country around the world that has strictly regulated guns.[/QUOTE] Look at switzerland. At age 19 every able bodied male in Switzerland is given a Sig 550 assault rifle and a SIG-Sauer P220 handgun by the government, which he keeps at his home until his required service ends. He's also given the option to keep the rifle after it has had it's automatic capability removed. That means an astronomical percent of the population of Switzerland has in it's possession a fully automatic rifle that they have constant access to, and yet the gun violence is extremely low. In 2006 there were 34 homicides involving firearms, compared to 69 with bladed weapons. As of 2007, there were 7,600,000 people living in Switzerland with 740,000 + firearms in legal circulation. The main issues that perpetrate violence aren't gun availability, it's poverty and lack of education. And the US school system is the single worst legal atrocity in the country.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27253095][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#cite_ref-Cen2008_127-4[/url] 79%? Anyway, it's a percentage of population.[/QUOTE] Misread. But regardless, bigger population, more tension due to a pretty weird history. It's a simple formula. Couple that with poverty and a multitude of other causes and you have the US crime rate right in your pretty little hands. But as I said, it's not that big of a problem, we have more important things to deal with.

Aw they decided not to show it. [url]http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/fleury-case-live-blog[/url] :saddowns:

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27252996]There's no way to show a link between homicide rates and firearms without involving other countries, and you're obviously not going to allow that to be used as an example.[/quote] Using other countries doesn't work because they are other countries. There is a mind boggling number of variables which undoubtedly play into homicide rates. Most of which will be drastically different from nation to nation. Gun control and homicide rates don't coincide at all. You can't even show CORRELATION much less CAUSATION. The data just doesn't support your theory. You live in Australia. Home to the biggest joke in the history of gun control. Massive gun control hits and it does jack shit. [url]http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx[/url] [url]http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.aspx[/url] Both graphs just keep on cruising like nothing ever happened. (1996 is the year the comprehensive gun control hit) I'm trying to find the charts for the UK. I used to have them saved. They showed almost exactly the same trend. No significant change in murder rate, but a completely unfettered increase in violent crime. Zero change. [quote]What I don't understand is how it's possible to deny there is a problem with guns? If there's cultural tensions, why would you give them weapons of any sorts? [/QUOTE] Because it has nothing to do with them. I don't feel like you are getting my point. I'm trying, but it just feels like I'm spinning wheels in mud here. The homicide rate doesn't affect or matter in regards to the second amendment at all. I'm saying it again, not to be a dick, but to really emphasis this: [i]The second amendment doesn't care about the crime. [/i] The crime rate has no bearing on the purpose of the second amendment. It isn't invalidated because it has nothing to do with crime.

oh, he's from australia. no wonder DogGunn cares about stopping crime so much; he's a [i]self-hating[/i] australian.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;27253102]Look at switzerland. At age 19 every able bodied male in Switzerland is given a Sig 550 assault rifle and a SIG-Sauer P220 handgun by the government, which he keeps at his home until his required service ends. He's also given the option to keep the rifle after it has had it's automatic capability removed. That means an astronomical percent of the population of Switzerland has in it's possession a fully automatic rifle that they have constant access to, and yet the gun violence is extremely low. In 2006 there were 34 homicides involving firearms, compared to 69 with bladed weapons. As of 2007, there were 7,600,000 people living in Switzerland with 740,000 + firearms in legal circulation. The main issues that perpetrate violence aren't gun availability, it's poverty and lack of education. And the US school system is the single worst legal atrocity in the country.[/QUOTE] Quoting this because I was about to make precisely this very argument. Its the people, not the presence of weapons, that causes issues.

[QUOTE=Spacewolf;27243755]Oh wow, I wouldn't want to see a video like that :([/QUOTE] Late, but it will only be shown up until he gets shot, because that's when the camera was dropped. Also no audio.

[QUOTE=ItWasNiceToKnow;27235843]Yes, because that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying, that whatever he knows how to perfectly handle an UZI and shoot h34d$h0tz at übah 1337 distances, he is 8 and should not fucking have a gun. [/QUOTE] I tried beer and wine when I was like 6, that doesn't make me an alcoholic. It's still nasty to me.

[QUOTE=Upgrade123;27266986]I tried beer and wine when I was like 6, that doesn't make me an alcoholic. It's still nasty to me.[/QUOTE] Dammit you got wine? I only got the beer

I don't blame the gun, I don't blame the manufacturer; I blame the parents.

[QUOTE=Playguy;27235272]I wonder why he didn't take his finger off the trigger when it recoiled. Seems weird.[/QUOTE] Trigger happy

[QUOTE=Miskav;27237728]People under 18 and firearms, only in america.[/QUOTE] People under 18 and firearms, also in the Middle East I'm sure. [QUOTE=Upgrade123;27266986]I tried beer and wine when I was like 6, that doesn't make me an alcoholic. It's still nasty to me.[/QUOTE] My friend has tried it before, he said it tasted horrid.

[QUOTE=WhatTheFox;27235305]Rednex.[/QUOTE] Rednecks give their kids rifles and knives, not Uzis.

recoil = shot in the head :what:

[QUOTE=JustGman;27290477]Rednecks give their kids rifles and knives, not Uzis.[/QUOTE] Israeli rednecks, then...

[QUOTE=The Spie;27290640]recoil = shot in the head :what:[/QUOTE] He was eight. Uzis have a center of gravity just above the hand and forward of it slightly, right by the trigger. When fired, they contain a directed explosion capable of propelling a piece of metal at the speed of sound, which occurs directly above that center of gravity. It does this 10 times per second. The result is, like most SMGs, a steady and strong rotational movement from the gun using the shooter's grip as a pivot, which draws the barrel upward rapidly.

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;27288374]People under 18 and firearms, also in the Middle East I'm sure. My friend has tried it before, he said it tasted horrid.[/QUOTE] It does.

[url]http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf[/url] This has to be one of the most helpful guide I've read. It gives myths against firearms, and then gives a list of facts to why that myth is wrong. You should probably read it, DogGunn.

I remember the original thread about this kid, good times.

post vid

[QUOTE=supersnail11;27235536]Well, yes, but it's the parents responsibility to keep their kids safe, and if they let them operate an uzi at 8, it's the parents fault. The gun show was just supplying the gun.[/QUOTE] It's their responsibility to keep their kid safe but it's everyone's responsibility to use common sense...

[QUOTE=killover;27311057]post vid[/QUOTE] I don't have it, and it won't show him getting shot. [editline]9th January 2011[/editline] More info, from Yahoo! News [quote=Yahoo] SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – Jurors in the trial of a former police chief watched video Thursday of an 8-year-old boy accidentally shooting himself to death with an Uzi submachine gun at a 2008 gun fair, a sight that prompted a collective gasp in the courtroom. The video, taken by the boy's father, shows Christopher Bizilj, of Ashford, Conn., shooting the 9 mm micro Uzi when the front of the weapon kicks back toward his head and part of the boy's skull appears to fly off. Former Pelham, Mass., police Chief Edward Fleury, whose company co-sponsored the gun fair at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and furnishing weapons to a minor. He's on trial in Hampden Superior Court in Springfield. The boy's father, emergency room Dr. Charles Bizilj, testified Thursday that he videotaped Christopher with the micro Uzi, which jammed several times. He said he started and stopped videotaping several times as the gun jammed. At one point, he said he picked his camera up, looked toward the firing line and couldn't see Christopher. "Chris was not in the viewfinder," Bizilj testified calmly with no visible signs of emotion. "Chris was on the ground. I ran over to him. His eyes were open. I saw no reason for him to be on the ground. I tried to talk to him. He didn't respond. I put my hand behind his head to pick him up. ... There was a large portion of his cranium missing." Bizilj said he gave medical attention to Christopher until paramedics arrived. Some relatives began to cry during the testimony, and several left the courtroom. They declined to comment earlier in the day. Dr. Bizilj said his two young sons were excited about the gun fair, which he had first heard about months earlier at a Labor Day party and in talks with friends. "This was a big event," Bizilj testified. "Christopher wore his special camo pants, camo shoes and a jacket with big pockets because he had been in the habit of collecting shells off the ground." The doctor said his sons had used firearms but had never shot automatic weapons before the machine gun shoot in Westfield, about 10 miles west of Springfield. Bizilj said he, his father-in-law and his older son Colin, then 11, fired a larger Uzi that they selected before they went shooting. He said the Uzi jammed when Colin was shooting it, and the range master picked out the micro Uzi. Bizilj said Colin fired the micro Uzi. When he was done, Christopher stepped up to the firing line with the range master, who was next to the boy when the shooting happened. Prosecutor William Bennett has said Christopher was too young to control the powerful weapon, which fires 1,200 rounds per minute. A now-retired state medical examiner who performed an autopsy on Christopher testified that the boy died from a single bullet wound that caused major brain damage and bleeding. Fleury's company, COPS Firearms & Training, co-sponsored the event with the Westfield Sportsman's Club. When asked by Bennett if he had thought about safety before the event, Bizilj said, "You can imagine this has gone through my head a thousand times." He said that from reading the flier for the machine gun shoot and talking with friends, he thought the event would be safe and well-supervised. Bizilj acknowledged under cross-examination by Fleury's lawyer, Rosemary Scapicchio, that he signed a waiver at the Sportsman's Club before the shooting saying he was aware of the possible risks, including death, and absolved anyone of liability. He also acknowledged that he told reporters soon after the event that he believed it was a tragic accident but later decided to file a lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed against the Westfield Sportsman's Club, Fleury and two other co-defendants for negligence. It was settled last month for about $700,000, but Fleury wasn't part of the settlement, Scapicchio said. Bizilj said his family would use the money to set up a foundation for children's activities. During opening statement Tuesday, Scapicchio said Fleury wasn't to blame for the boy's death and that much of the responsibility fell on Dr. Bizilj for allowing his son to shoot a dangerous weapon. Prosecutors have said that Charles Bizilj was not charged because he was a layman and based his decision to allow his sons to fire the gun on information from others who should have known it was too dangerous. Two men who supplied the machine guns for the event, Carl Giuffre and Domenico Spano, both of Connecticut, had conducted the same gun shoot at the Westfield club for seven years without incident. They have pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and are awaiting trial. [/quote] Jesus, large part of his cranium? [editline]9th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=killover;27311057]post vid[/QUOTE] If you want to see violence [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPnMbLr5nc[/media]