• Donald Trump weighs in on the Oregon shootings: Teachers should have been armed to stop it
    104 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48825959]I don't think it's that difficult to run [I]away[/I] from the sound of gunfire.[/QUOTE] It can be difficult to tell where the sound is coming from, especially inside a building. Long tiled hallways echo and amplify gunshots. Even assuming you can tell where a shot came from, if the shooter is only firing sporadically you may not be able to tell what direction he's moving, or where he's at at any particular moment. Combine that with fear, adrenaline, panic... It's easy to be calm and analytical from the safety of your office chair, but real life isn't quite as simple as you'd think. Plus, going back to Columbine for a moment, there's always the risk of more than one shooter. Even assuming you know where the first one is, you could be running right down the barrel of the second. Having armed teachers running through the halls could also deeply confuse the situation when the police arrive. It's better to have a clear path for the officers to start doing their sweep, not having to worry about mistaking teachers for the shooter. Lockdown procedures are effective at minimizing casualties when they are properly initiated.They throw locked doors and dark rooms in the shooters' path, and they keep the halls clear for the officers to do their sweep. If you want an extra layer of protection, I could potentially get behind the concept of having guns in the classroom, but having people running about all willy nilly is a surefire way to help the shooter maximize casualties. Your idea of gun closets off the hallways is not a good one.
who's going to train the teachers to use firearms and where are the teachers going to store the firearms so students can't get at them
[QUOTE=Untouch;48825994]who's going to train the teachers to use firearms and where are the teachers going to store the firearms so students can't get at them[/QUOTE] Teachers that volunteer and are vetted can be trained by police for firearm safety. Firearms can be stored in designated offices, janitor rooms, and/or specific classroom closets. Students can be left in the blind to where they are stored - they honestly have no right to know.
[QUOTE=General J;48825592]Hey teen psychopaths, want to go on a killing spree? Now you don't even need to rob your uncles guns- there's one already in every single classroom only handled by someone without the proper experience.[/QUOTE] I'm guessing you think that putting a sign in front of a campus basically saying "if you want to shoot a bunch of people, here's the place to do it because no one except you as a gun here" is a good solution?
I don't think there's any argument to be made for arming [I]teachers[/I]. there's already enough grossly incompetent people working in the educational system, we don't need to be filtering out the people who could have been good teachers but aren't able or willing to operate a firearm. and we certainly don't need to be handing out guns to the sorts of teachers I grew up dealing with. all that being said, it really doesn't seem all that challenging for schools to employ armed and trained security personnel. even if it's just one armed guard per school building, that immediately makes it 10x more difficult for a shooter to kill people and it puts a pretty hard limit on the amount of people who could die during a shooting. if the alternative is to do nothing then I really don't know why this isn't being widely considered
[QUOTE=Untouch;48825994]who's going to train the teachers to use firearms and where are the teachers going to store the firearms so students can't get at them[/QUOTE] Themselves? You do realize plenty of teachers already own firearms and practice regularly with them, right? I don't think Trump was talking about making guns mandatory for teachers, but rather allow those who already CC [I]literally fucking everywhere else with no problems whatsoever[/I] to protect themselves on school grounds should things take a turn for the worst. [QUOTE=Sableye;48825966]It's too chaotic of a situation to be able to say "had a gun been here it would have stopped that person"[/QUOTE] Please find me a mass shooting that happened outside of a gun-free zone.
The only way I could get behind the idea of having guns in teachers' hands is if they were trained very specifically in stationary defense. Stay in the classroom and be ready. Running out into the hallway is not at all a good idea. It puts you at risk, it puts your students at risk, it puts police officers at risk-- it does nothing more than make a chaotic and dangerous situation even more chaotic and dangerous. I would much rather see enhanced security measures than enhanced firepower, personally. Greater communication measures, such as equipping teachers with radios, panic buttons in classrooms that signal police stations, strong locks and no glass on interior doors, regular lockdown drills so that teachers and students know exactly what to do and can do it very quickly, CCTV feeds for officers to monitor as soon as a situation has been reported, etc. The idea is to allow as much communication between teachers and officers as is realistic so that there is as little confusion as possible, to keep officers aware of where the shooter is and what he is doing, to ensure that training and established procedures will keep students and teachers from panicking and putting themselves at further risk, and to keep solid barriers between the shooter and his victims to prevent him from doing as much harm as possible until the police arrive, minutes later.
America has got to be the most third world-minded, first world country on the planet. Yes, put more guns in school this will work. Surely the problem with mass shootings in America isn't the ease of access to, or availability of weapons to seemingly anyone who wants one, no it's the menace of "Gun Free Zones" and not enough guns. G-d bless.
Teachers are fleeing their jobs as it is. If we continue to provide pitiful salaries on top of broken legislature that aims to idolize standardized testing, there's no way you could convince them with the burden of gun training and that level of responsibility.
it's better to have armed police in schools, and have them in all public places, maybe outside your house too to make sure everyone's safe
Yes, having armed police in schools would be far better than arming teachers. It's what my high school did (though more in defense of gang fights than mass shootings). It's not that difficult to assign one or two or three policemen to a school to keep it under guard.
I think people fail to realize that it doesn't matter if you take away all the guns, knives, bats ,or bombs. Evil will still find a way to wreak havoc among the innocent and even if they had armed guards, that still probably wouldn't have stopped him from harming people.
Imagine teachers [I]did[/I] get firearms as precaution; how long would it take until a student got shot by mistake?
I like guns and all, but THIS is the stupidest idea I ever heard.
[QUOTE=Timof2009;48826168]I think people fail to realize that it doesn't matter if you take away all the guns, knives, bats ,or bombs. Evil will still find a way to wreak havoc among the innocent and even if they had armed guards, that still probably wouldn't have stopped him from harming people.[/QUOTE] "where there's a will, there's a way" is the dumbest, most unrealistic concept I've ever heard of.
I think arming the teachers would prevent school shootings from progressing to such extreme heights as to multiple classrooms being slaughtered. However, owing to the element of surprise, one classroom is still likely going to get slaughtered.
I feel like the main flaw with this idea isnt just "solving gun violence with more guns" and more how expensive and time consuming it would be to give every teacher in america a firearm and the proper training for them to be responsible for the lives of all their students
Don't know if anyone posted this yet, but oregon has a law that says anyone with a concealed carry license can take there gun in any public place, even gun free zones. There were actually several people at the school who were armed. They didnt want to get shot either.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48826155]Yes, having armed police in schools would be far better than arming teachers. It's what my high school did (though more in defense of gang fights than mass shootings). It's not that difficult to assign one or two or three policemen to a school to keep it under guard.[/QUOTE] Most country police stations don't have enough full time officers to do that though, my hometown has 2 prisons and a tiny police force, they're always busiy, they don't even have the resources to have 1 officer on duty at all times, they stop patrolling themselves at midnight and a sheriff comes in about 3 to drive through for a couple hours before they come back at 6 [editline]4th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;48826269]I think arming the teachers would prevent school shootings from progressing to such extreme heights as to multiple classrooms being slaughtered. However, owing to the element of surprise, one classroom is still likely going to get slaughtered.[/QUOTE] Rarely though do these shooters actually go to more than one room though, like the majority of these college shootings the person knew exactly where they were going then they fled
Teachers with CCW should be allowed to have a locker in certain areas to store their weapons that is somewhere that can be observed by like, a security camera connected to the main office or something as to prevent theft. Obligatory carry of teachers is sort crazy, though. Resource officers are probably enough.
love how everyone talks shit on trump for being the disaster he is and are ra ra ra for bernie until it arrives at the gun issue and suddenly trumps ideas seem well-considered, really says everything about hypocrisy
Well having zones with 100% zero guns is stupid in a country where any fuck can get a gun but I don't see how arming teachers would have helped in this particular case. Shoot the teacher first and that class is still fucked.
[QUOTE=Untouch;48825994]who's going to train the teachers to use firearms and where are the teachers going to store the firearms so students can't get at them[/QUOTE] And what if one of the teachers has mental health crisis and decides to kill all the students in the classroom because he has a gun?
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48826737]love how everyone talks shit on trump for being the disaster he is and are ra ra ra for bernie until it arrives at the gun issue and suddenly trumps ideas seem well-considered, really says everything about hypocrisy[/QUOTE] Looks like most people are disagreeing with Trump here though? Also, somebody can have a lot of a shit ideas and also have one good one as well. Stopped clocks and such.
Of course cnn fucking says the shooters name. What is the fucking point. We don't need pictures or need to know his name. Fuck cnn
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;48826269]I think arming the teachers would prevent school shootings from progressing to such extreme heights as to multiple classrooms being slaughtered. However, owing to the element of surprise, one classroom is still likely going to get slaughtered.[/QUOTE] Having armed security guards in American schools wouldn't be such a bad idea though accept they could have a mental episode just like any other human. [editline]4th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=X12321;48826795]Of course cnn fucking says the shooters name. What is the fucking point. We don't need pictures or need to know his name. Fuck cnn[/QUOTE] I know right that's exactly what these fuckers want attention and fame in the media.
In Israel, iirc, there are a good number of trained and armed teachers for events like these. I think there's a lot of exaggeration in this thread to how 'add more guns = more kill!!'. Depending on where you live in the US, police can take a looooong time to get to an emergency-- even up to half an hour in some cases, especially in the more rural areas. You guys can continue to pump out the anti-republican circlejerk, but armed teachers isn't some radical system that's never worked before-- it's something that's been applied and mostly successful in application. Sure, lock up the weapons properly. Sure, take the teachers through psych evals and background checks-- but this isn't an 'insane' idea.
If this guy becomes president there's going to be WW3
[QUOTE=Monkah;48826817]You guys can continue to pump out the anti-republican circlejerk, but armed teachers isn't some radical system that's never worked before-- it's something that's been applied and mostly successful in application. Sure, lock up the weapons properly. Sure, take the teachers through psych evals and background checks-- but this isn't an 'insane' idea.[/QUOTE] The hostility to it comes from the fact that its a bandaid to a more serious issue thats always thrown around by people who don't want any reform. [QUOTE=Monkah;48826828][I]"people have to 100% support a politicians ideas and stances, or else they're hypocrites!!!"[/I] jesus fucking christ what on earth are you talking about[/QUOTE] His history indicates that he believes this.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48826827]The hostility to it comes from the fact that its a bandaid to a more serious issue thats always thrown around by people who don't want any reform.[/QUOTE] Yes, as is the 'solution' of gun control altogether. Your point? [QUOTE=Kommodore;48826737]love how everyone talks shit on trump for being the disaster he is and are ra ra ra for bernie until it arrives at the gun issue and suddenly trumps ideas seem well-considered, really says everything about hypocrisy[/QUOTE] [I]"people have to 100% support a politicians ideas and stances, or else they're hypocrites!!!"[/I] jesus fucking christ what on earth are you talking about
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