EU warns Donald Trump: Paris agreement on climate change is ‘irreversible and non-negotiable’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] There are literally parts of the world that will become actually uninhabitable in our lifetimes if we stopped all emissions [I][B]right now. [/B][/I] [I]Please[/I] read about things before you talk about them. [editline]19th May 2017[/editline] Don't get *too* worried about that small fire in the attic.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] Imagine being so up your own ass that the threat of an uninhabitable planet 'isn't helping things'.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree to a point - Earth won't be uninhabitable for humans, but climate change could very well lead to the displacement and deaths of a pretty large number of people.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] Tell that to the Maldives.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52251110]Yeah, I agree to a point - Earth won't be uninhabitable for humans, but climate change could very well lead to the displacement and deaths of a pretty large number of people.[/QUOTE] That's what I meant, some are implying that climate change will result in all life on earth going extinct which is a gross over-exaggeration. Lots of people will die and be displaced and many species will go extinct and it will be an awful thing, but it won't result in all life on earth going kaput.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251161]That's what I meant, some are implying that climate change will result in all life on earth going extinct which is a gross over-exaggeration. Lots of people will die and be displaced and many species will go extinct and it will be an awful thing, but it won't result in all life on earth going kaput.[/QUOTE] Oh well if we're not all going to die then fuck those people who'll suffer greatly, I ain't doing shit to stop causing them harm, they can all drown and die for all I care, right?

[QUOTE=simkas;52251172]Oh well if we're not all going to die then fuck those people who'll suffer greatly, I ain't doing shit to stop causing them harm, they can all drown and die for all I care, right?[/QUOTE] That's not what I was insinuating at all, thanks for putting words in my mouth. I agree with the EU's stance on the Paris agreement, for the record. What I don't agree with is people over-exaggerating things to appeal to emotion.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251174]That's not what I was insinuating at all, thanks for putting words in my mouth.[/QUOTE] Then what were you insinuating? All I got from your post is that because people are maybe exaggerating how bad things are going to get, we should just not do anything cause it'll be fine?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251161]That's what I meant, some are implying that climate change will result in all life on earth going extinct which is a gross over-exaggeration. Lots of people will die and be displaced and many species will go extinct and it will be an awful thing, but it won't result in all life on earth going kaput.[/QUOTE] Geologically speaking the Earth has been through a hell of a lot worse. But the reality could be quite devastating. The Holocene Mass Extinction is real and on going. Whether or not humans go away because of it has yet to be seen. Unabated climate change will be the worst catastrophe humanity as a species has faced. Is all life going to die? No, probably not. But that doesn't matter if economically important species die.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251174]That's not what I was insinuating at all, thanks for putting words in my mouth. I agree with the EU's stance on the Paris agreement, for the record. What I don't agree with is people over-exaggerating things to appeal to emotion.[/QUOTE] "People shouldn't be upset that things are going to be bad" Why

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52251194]"People shouldn't be upset that things are going to be bad" Why[/QUOTE] People have every right to be upset, what i'm saying if they're going to be upset they shouldn't over-exaggerate when they say how upset they are. Facts over feelings. Otherwise you run the risk of misleading people about what the situation really is and potentially cause unnecessary panic.

-snip shit post-

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251204]People have every right to be upset, what i'm saying if they're going to be upset they shouldn't over-exaggerate when they say how upset they are. Facts over feelings. Otherwise you run the risk of misleading people about what the situation really is and potentially cause unnecessary panic.[/QUOTE] Yeah, totally, we don't want to go out and make the world a better place for the wrong reasons, that'd be just terrible, huh?

[QUOTE=simkas;52251223]Yeah, totally, we don't want to go out and make the world a better place for the wrong reasons, that'd be just terrible, huh?[/QUOTE] Fine, keep spreading lies instead of facts then if you're really that stubborn about it.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251233]Fine, keep spreading lies instead of facts then if you're really that stubborn about it.[/QUOTE] They aren't lies though

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52251236]They aren't lies though[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=xalener;52246515]So you deniers want to understand why people get so fucking angry when you crawl out of the woodwork? You want to know why people like me get so fucking volatile? Your entire stance is a front to our continued existence. This isn't a matter of god damn opinion. You are ACTIVELY KILLING US ALL because of the fucking stupid ass non-arguments that you are propagating. This is not a regular political crapshoot policy debate. This isn't gay marriage or legalizing weed or whatever. This isn't some Phantom Menace trade taxation bullshit. This is the end of the fucking world. The subject matter of the debate is the death of every single living being on this planet. [b]This is not about being cozy and sipping liberal lattes or whatever the fuck conservatives think liberals care about here, this is about not letting Earth become fucking [I]Mars II[/I].[/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;52246775]man some people are so stubborn, you'd have thought [b]"if we don't stop climate change, the earth will become an uninhabitable dust ball"[/b] would convince anyone but i guess they'd rather die than have a foreigner tell them what to do[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=xalener;52246419]Yeah, this is not the fucking situation to be that guy. "Well, there's a chance that [b]choking out the atmosphere might [I]not[/I] kill off all life on Earth[/b], so let's just keep going for it!"[/QUOTE] This is what i'm talking about, those aren't facts. Those are over-exaggerations to appeal to emotion.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251260]This is what i'm talking about, those aren't facts because that won't happen[/QUOTE] But it will, eventually, if we stop doing something about it.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251204]People have every right to be upset, what i'm saying if they're going to be upset they shouldn't over-exaggerate when they say how upset they are. Facts over feelings. Otherwise you run the risk of misleading people about what the situation really is and potentially cause unnecessary panic.[/QUOTE] People honestly should panic and I'm so fucking sick of people like you spreading complacency in the stead of action Billions will die. Billions of dollars will vanish, eons of knowledge will be lost and whoever is left if anyone will have a pre agriaian society which guess what? Likely won't lead to us taking dominance of the planet again due to the extreme weather left over. [editline]19th May 2017[/editline] Dargon, you don't seem as informed as you think you are.

[QUOTE=simkas;52251275]But it will, eventually, if we stop doing something about it.[/QUOTE] And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] IM glad you're sure of that but I'm not. Exxon knew about climate change in great details as early as the 70s. They buried that information for the sake of short term profit. Maybe you're just wrong...?

[QUOTE=Fort83;52251310]If the exaggerations get people to start caring and taking taking steps towards making the world cleaner then what's the problem? There's literally no downside to making the world a better place.[/QUOTE] What i'm worried about is people taking those exaggerations to heart and going overboard, like "crazy survivalism" overboard.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] Yeah well people like Trump seem to be proving you wrong.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [B]that[/B] bad.[/QUOTE] This attitude is worse than people "exaggerating" the effects of global warming.

[QUOTE=simkas;52251328]Yeah well people like Trump seem to be proving you wrong.[/QUOTE] You don't even need to go to that extreme. Tillerson is a rational and reasonable adult. He still chooses profit over the health of the planet. This is the world you say doesn't exist dargon but I think you're just naive

[QUOTE=simkas;52251275]But it will, eventually, if we stop doing something about it.[/QUOTE] Not through CO2 it won't. For earth to become mars like, we'd have to at least get completely rid of our ozone layer and preferably also our magnetic field if we want a chance. The discussion of climate change should be grounded in reality - that doesn't mean we should be complacent, but not sticking to the facts opens you up to cries of alarmism, which simply delegitimizes your course.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] Did you forget you're in a thread about the second worst nation with gas emissions thinking about not fulfilling the agreement lol

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52251352]Not through CO2 it won't. For earth to become mars like, we'd have to at least get completely rid of our ozone layer and preferably also our magnetic field if we want a chance. The discussion of climate change should be grounded in reality - that doesn't mean we should be complacent, but not sticking to the facts opens you up to cries of alarmism, which simply delegitimizes your course.[/QUOTE] This is exactly what I was saying, but my argument was formulated worse than this one.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52251352]Not through CO2 it won't. For earth to become mars like, we'd have to at least get completely rid of our ozone layer and preferably also our magnetic field if we want a chance. The discussion of climate change should be grounded in reality - that doesn't mean we should be complacent, but not sticking to the facts opens you up to cries of alarmism, which simply delegitimizes your course.[/QUOTE] Well good thing we also have a complex methane problem

I mean I understand why people are apathetic about it. Though I think it's important to think about it like a gamble: [img]http://i.imgur.com/xCBmNhX.png[/img] (writing with a mouse is hard) -Let's pretend we don't know that it's happening. Let's say the Conservatives are right and the ~debate~ is still to be had. Okay. That means we don't heavily invest in clean resources, or other things commonly associated with it. Sure. When you do that, you're putting Humanity's chips in the "Betting it won't be bad if it's real" basket. You're gambling on the likelihood of an event [I]not[/I] occurring. You exist in the [B]Lucked Out[/B] box if your bet is right. -However, if you're wrong, humanity as we know it is going to have a bad time. You're bet now lands you in the [B]catastrophe[/B] box. Congratulations. You bet against climate change and lost, and now the entire species is paying for your mistake. At least you didn't waste time and money investing in risky investments like solar and electric cars, right? -Now, you do the opposite. You say, "well we don't know if it's real or not, but let's pretend it is." You invest heavily in green projects and renewable energy. Less people die from pollution, there's less disease, fisheries are healthy, and profits from ecotourism increase. The economy bounds from the development of new industries and supporting industries, and we are no longer entirely dependent on non-renewable resources, however, the oil industry still exists. The expected climate change never happens. The old timers scoff about losing their old ways of doing thing, but humanity dodges a bullet. [B]Oh well[/B], enjoy the clean energy and less death and better economy. -The last scenario is a society that knows climate change will be a real issue, and invests heavily to mitigate it. We do all of the stuff in the previous section, but climate change still happens as expected. It hurt's a little, the Maldives are evacuated, and some places have to build sea walls, but all-in-all, [B]crisis averted.[/B] We avoided most of the rampant refugee crisis and starvation that option 2 would've left us with. Plus we get the added benefit of a society that no longer depends on non-renewable sources of energy. Eventually, hundreds of years later stuff calms down, and future children are bored in history class learning about the primitive generation that almost fucked it up for everyone down the line. The only acceptable option is to react, and hope you're wrong. To do anything else puts the foundation of society at chance. (this post isn't directed at anyone, just my general thoughts on why I think overreaction is better than under-reaction.) [editline]19th May 2017[/editline] The two likely outcomes are both bad. But one is a lot worse than the other. [editline]19th May 2017[/editline] In 100 year's I'd rather the future generations say "They were rather alarmist" instead of "They saw it coming and did nothing?"

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] The Great Barrier Reef is facing irreversible ecological collapse, we've already let it come too far