EU warns Donald Trump: Paris agreement on climate change is ‘irreversible and non-negotiable’ - Polidicks

I would rather have future generations condemn us for overreacting rather than condemn us for not reacting at all.

While we're talking about Climate change... don't we have the tools to fix it either within our grasp right now, or very nearly so? Remember, we now have CRISPR as a means of genetic manipulation. For an idea of how big this is, check this video out: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY[/media] So we can now use this method to modify the DNA of live organisms, literally selecting the genes we want to put into something, and allowing the subject's body to propagate them. Works for animals, plants, insects, and there have already been successful experiments with animals and plants. Much of the GMO we consume these days has used CRISPR to modify its genes. We now have the power to not only guide evolution for ourselves, but for every living species on the planet. So why not put money into research with the ultimate goal of modifying some existing and widespread plant species to much, much more efficiently convert Carbon Dioxide into oxygen? In a few centuries, it may balance the CO2 budget, so to speak, without having to hope in futility that mankind would stop being stupid and subsequently stop pumping poison into the atmosphere.

the reason why climate change is debated comes down to pure greed and misinformation caused by said greed. who wants to invest in renewable energy when the energy earth relies on makes us a fuck load of money and we don't have to pay money to change. who wants to stop mining when its making us a fuck load of money and its good look at all these jobs we're creating! climate change isn't real because it doesn't fit my business plans so heres some legit scientific reports that say its just a hoax, you can trust me i've been on tv before!

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251233]Fine, keep spreading lies instead of facts then if you're really that stubborn about it.[/QUOTE] There's a shitload of keystone species that literally entire ecosystems rely on that are under threat. Warming stands to change oceanic currents that basically every biosphere on Earth relies on. Ocean acidification and deoxygenation are terrifyingly real things that are happening [I]right now[/I] as a direct result of human industrial activity. Climate change is a significant part of why the Middle East and Africa are such unstable regions It is absolutely [I]not[/I] an exaggeration to say there is a genuine chance that the Earth could be rendered uninhabitable to humans

If the fish in the ocean die out, because of acidification and the destruction of coral reefs, and more and more fertile ground become unfarmable. That's a massive. MASSIVE amount of food resources that will be lost. How many people do you think would die, how much money do you think that would cost, not to mention a global refugee crisis. Or is that not catastrophic enough to be worried about?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] tbh this mentality just doesn't work at all for climate change because if everyone was an alarmist we'd be far better off than if everyone denied it it just doesn't make sense to be neutral on this shit this is coming from the guy who consistently tries to be neutral, I've even been called out on it before

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52250921]Climate change alarmism is just as bad as climate change denial, it's something that shouldn't be ignored yes, but at the same time saying things like "it's gonna make the planet uninhabitable radda radda radda!" isn't helping things.[/QUOTE] if there was a fire slowly moving across the country, and it was speeding up because we kept dumping fuel on it, would you rather: [B]a) [/B]be alarmed that the fire is going to one day burn down everything you have and do something about the fire now [B]b)[/B] stay neutral, believe that the fire is coming and is a problem but what can i do about it? [B]c) [/B]deny that the fire is real. its not a threat, fire is natural humans have no influence over this fire, it happens all the time naturally.

I mean sure you probably don't want to blindly buy "green" products that aren't green at all just because climate change is about to wipe us out and people are trying to bank on it, but that doesn't mean it's not the time for panic. I mean cruise ships are sailing all around the arctic ice cap without problem, oceans are boiling, getting poisoned and dying, 2015 was the hottest year on record until 2016 dethroned it, 2017 is already hotter than either by this time. Shit's going down, this is [i]not[/i] a fucking drill.

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;52251946]if there was a fire slowly moving across the country, and it was speeding up because we kept dumping fuel on it, would you rather: [B]a) [/B]be alarmed that the fire is going to one day burn down everything you have and do something about the fire now [B]b)[/B] stay neutral, believe that the fire is coming and is a problem but what can i do about it? [B]c) [/B]deny that the fire is real. its not a threat, fire is natural humans have no influence over this fire, it happens all the time naturally.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] yeah but how is acting actively against stopping the fire and spreading awareness as bad as denying the fire despite the fact that theres evidence that it is going to sweep through their home town one day? at this stage i'd be really happy if every one would stop denying climate change, because it is real, and its dangerous and that fire will affect your life and the lives of your children and their children, and denying it is extremely dangerous for the future of this planet.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] But that's not even what the "Alarmists" are doing dude.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251161]That's what I meant, some are implying that climate change will result in all life on earth going extinct which is a gross over-exaggeration. Lots of people will die and be displaced and many species will go extinct and it will be an awful thing, but it won't result in all life on earth going kaput.[/QUOTE] I mean, in theory it could lead to that. Just, society is probably going to collapse before that happens, unless we start to fuck shit up even more and even faster than we already are. Besides, I don't think anyone was saying it would literally be the complete and utter extinction of humanity?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] That's not what this is about. It's not about everyone screaming and crying and shouting "catastrophe" at the top of their lungs. It's about having a clear solution to stop or at least slow down our negative effect on the environment and still having people deny it because they don't see short term gain from it. Let's say it is up to interpretation and that climate change ISN'T a catastrophe that's slowly unfolding. Would you really rather give people shit for being "too concerned" instead of criticizing those whose apathy is destroying our ecosystem?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] So you're saying that trying to then go out and put that fire out is the same as panicking as a headless chicken?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251320]What i'm worried about is people taking those exaggerations to heart and going overboard, like "crazy survivalism" overboard.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] I think the important aspect of your issue is that 'facts' about [I]what's going to happen[/I] don't exist, because we don't know. You see exaggerations because we don't know exactly what's going to happen, so it's difficult to describe. It's possible that humanity will go extinct. I don't think so, but I do think we're going to have a world-wide crisis unlike anything that has ever been seen before. We don't know all the potential cascading effects of ecosystems breaking down, and we don't even know how bad or fast the warming itself is going to be. There's going to be natural disasters, droughts, floods, food shortages, wars, mass immigration across the world. However you want to envision it, you can't get around that it will potentially be apocalyptic for humanity, and could possibly put life on Earth in a dark age for millions of years until diversity re-establishes. There's not really a middle ground between being alarmed and denying it happening, even if [I]"literally Mars 2.0"[/I] is an exaggeration.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251302]And that's what the Paris agreement is, doing something about it. Tbh i'm pretty sure humanity isn't so far up its ass that we'd let it get [b]that[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] Problem is when we start feeling the effects of it then it's too late to do anything. A lot of people won't do anything until they personally see the effects.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52246386]There was a time when such things were debated furiously--the result was what we now consider fact.[/QUOTE] It's all well and nice that you believe debate is good for science, and it is, but when there is scientific evidence (and mountains of it) that climate change is real AND it's having a harsh effect on our planet, I think the debate is fucking over, so take that devils advocate shit somewhere else

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] What was the point of your argument?

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52251996]I wouldn't run around in a panic like a headless chicken, that's what.[/QUOTE] So you'd burn to death in your home after making fun of the people who actually care about burning to death for "being too alarmed". Gotcha. Glad to know where you stand on the issues.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;52257461]What was the point of your argument?[/QUOTE] My point was that I think people should use arguments based on facts instead of sensationalist exaggerations to bring their point across. As in, don't say something like "it'll turn the earth into an uninhabitable dust ball resembling Venus" something more like "it'll kill tens of thousands, flood coastal cities and cause an unprecedented economical crisis, but it won't be the end of all life as we know it" would be more appropriate imo.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258384]My point was that I think people should use arguments based on facts instead of sensationalist exaggerations to bring their point across. As in, don't say something like "it'll turn the earth into an uninhabitable dust ball resembling Venus" something more like "it'll kill tens of thousands, flood coastal cities and cause an unprecedented economical crisis, but it won't be the end of all life as we know it" would be more appropriate imo.[/QUOTE] Tens of thousands? You're being a little optimistic there buddy. Unless it is stopped now the toll will be much higher.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258384]My point was that I think people should use arguments based on facts instead of sensationalist exaggerations to bring their point across. As in, don't say something like "it'll turn the earth into an uninhabitable dust ball resembling Venus" something more like "it'll kill tens of thousands, flood coastal cities and cause an unprecedented economical crisis, but it won't be the end of all life as we know it" would be more appropriate imo.[/QUOTE] You are ignorant. Tens of thousands is less than the Tsunami in Sri Lanka a few years back. Global climate change will be millions. Maybe billions after the agricultural crisis. You need to learn more before you start spouting off everyone is just an alarmist

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258384]My point was that I think people should use arguments based on facts instead of sensationalist exaggerations to bring their point across. As in, don't say something like "it'll turn the earth into an uninhabitable dust ball resembling Venus" something more like "it'll kill tens of thousands, flood coastal cities and cause an unprecedented economical crisis, but it won't be the end of all life as we know it" would be more appropriate imo.[/QUOTE] Tens of thousands? :v: It's already ignited events responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. The Syrian civil war for example, one of the events leading up to it was the worst drought in Syria's history. This caused the farming industry to die out, water and food becoming considerably more expensive, and forced millions to relocate. It was one of the leading drivers in the initial unrest. Maybe the civil war would've still happened, but climate change was certainly a contributing factor.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258384]My point was that I think people should use arguments based on facts instead of sensationalist exaggerations to bring their point across. As in, don't say something like "it'll turn the earth into an uninhabitable dust ball resembling Venus" something more like "it'll kill tens of thousands, flood coastal cities and cause an unprecedented economical crisis, [B]but it won't be the end of all life as we know it"[/B] would be more appropriate imo.[/QUOTE] So, looking past that it's a very real possibility that it will actually end life as we know it, and that your estimate of how many it will kill is extremely optimistic, why do you add that last part? I get that exaggeration can make the real threat seem less believable, but your 'corrected' version sounds like a justification for being apathetic.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;52257461]What was the point of your argument?[/QUOTE] He's tone policing and adding nothing of substance to the debate

So you guys all want to run around inciting mass panic, ok.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258748]So you guys all want to run around inciting mass panic, ok.[/QUOTE] If that means shit would get done, sure

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258748]So you guys all want to run around inciting mass panic, ok.[/QUOTE] Climate change is a well known issue that's has been on mainstream media for quite some time now, stop being ridiculous. [editline]21st May 2017[/editline] And when it reaches the point where there's an active threat on our life, no shit people are going to panic

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;52258748]So you guys all want to run around inciting mass panic, ok.[/QUOTE] No one's really inciting panic. We are saying we need to get things done right now to stop it from getting that bad.

I don't understand why GD spent 2 days arguing this and always coming to that ignorant conclusion, being aware of the situation and wanting something to be done about it isn't some sort of alarmist inciting mass panic around the globe agenda, so ridiculous