2012 Presidential Debate Thread - Obama/Biden vs. Romney/Ryan - October 3rd-22nd: Live 9 PM EST Toni - Polidicks

Gaffes are what matters, not actual performance

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;37906180]I think the goal was to not make waves for the time being and let Romney lower its guard for the second one[/QUOTE] this is exactly the goal. Obama had a comfortable enough lead that he was going to play it very safe so he didn't make a mistake that gets latched onto by the media. i still think it was the right strategy, but Romney was astonishingly well prepared for the debate, and thus he won the night. The media wants a closer race so they'll probably talk about it mostly positively, which will be enough to get Romney a couple points in the polls, but overall Obama's going to remain safe barring an external disaster

[QUOTE=thisispain;37906204]you can't point at the other side when you feel threatened. i have no sympathy for the democratic party but i do have values and i'm not going to sell them short by subscribing to the idiotic position that "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, FUCK EVERYONE". no this is a Republican problem. the Democrats have their problems but red herring remarks about a candidates secondary traits are not a problem with Democrats. nobody mentioned Mitt Romney's Mormonism, his creepy demeanor, the fact that he is 100% an elitist etc etc etc[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=StupidUsername67;37904309]the only thing romney did was prove to me how easily he bends facts and talks in circles. [b]mormons shouldn't be allowed to run.[/b][/QUOTE] Does this count? :v:

[QUOTE=person11;37906192]I pray for Biden. Ryan may be a serial liar, but Biden is... well he is Biden. [/QUOTE] Biden's actually a very good speaker/debater and will end up destroying Ryan since it matters less that Biden plays it safe.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;37906228]Does this count? :v:[/QUOTE] no no that doesn't count it wouldn't make sense considering Harry Reid is a mormon.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;37906145]Do you wanna take a guess at who else was a really great orator and charismatic speaker?[/QUOTE] You may have been on my case earlier, but I must admit I got a good kick outta this. Thanks.

[QUOTE=person11;37906225]Gaffes are what matters, not actual performance[/QUOTE] Well I guess this election is in the bag then everyone go home obama won

[QUOTE=Lazor;37906232]Biden's actually a very good speaker/debater and will end up destroying Ryan since it matters less that Biden plays it safe.[/QUOTE] I hope so. Biden is great but once in a while he will say the weirdest things in the middle of the greatest speeches

[QUOTE=person11;37906247]I hope so. Biden is great but once in a while he will say the weirdest things in the middle of the greatest speeches[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;no0e-mkhhbs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0e-mkhhbs[/video]

Was the PBS comment gaffey enough for you person11 [editline]4th October 2012[/editline] It's not really but it's a boneheaded comment that republicans actually agree with him on.

Save yourselves the time people, [video] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcMWnNcOxg4[/url] [/video]

[QUOTE=Diago21;37906275]Save yourselves the time people, [video] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcMWnNcOxg4[/url] [/video][/QUOTE] okay ron paul outta nowhere makes that

So who gave the most facts?

[QUOTE=Killuah;37906603]So who gave the most facts?[/QUOTE] Mitt Romney.

Not American so just reading the news, but apparently Romney was on a roll and Obama got pretty wrecked (and even the moderator got some). That I didn't expect.

Well, crap. I was really hoping Obama would curbstomp Romney in their debate, but it looks like we won't have so much luck. Come on Obama, you're better than that. You better pick up the slack in your next debates. Can anyone tell me what Five Thirty Eight is saying about this? I'm at school, so the site is blocked.

Here's the full article 538 did on it: [url]http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/polls-show-a-strong-debate-for-romney/[/url] [quote]Instant-reaction polls conducted by CNN and CBS News suggest that Mitt Romney was the winner of the first presidential debate. A CNN poll of debate-watchers found Mr. Romney very clearly ahead, with 67 percent of registered voters saying he won the debate, against just 25 percent for President Obama. A CBS News poll of undecided voters who watched the debate found 46 percent siding with Mr. Romney, 22 percent for Mr. Obama and 32 percent saying it was a tie. Google, which is experimenting with online surveys, found 38.9 percent of respondents saying they thought Mr. Obama performed better in a poll it conducted during the debate, against 35.5 percent for Mr. Romney and 25.6 percent who said it was a draw. But a second poll they conducted after the debate found 47.8 percent of respondents giving Mr. Romney the advantage, against 25.4 percent for Mr. Obama. There is not a lot of empirical research on the relationship between instant reaction polls and their eventual effect on the head-to-head polls. However, these were strong numbers for Mr. Romney where comparisons to past post-debate polls are available. A similar CBS News poll conducted among undecided voters after the first debate in 2008, for example, found that 40 percent said that Mr. Obama won the debate, against 22 percent for John McCain. The head-to-head polls moved toward Mr. Obama by about three percentage points after that debate, although some of that may have been from the momentum that Mr. Obama had carrying into the evening. The 67 percent of voters in the CNN poll who said that Mr. Romney won Wednesday night’s debate was higher than in any of the network’s surveys of the 2008 debates. By comparison, 51 percent of debate-watchers in a CNN poll after the first presidential debate in 2008 said that Mr. Obama had the stronger performance. And 58 percent said so after the third and final presidential debate in 2008. There may be some mitigating factors for Mr. Obama. First, although the conventional wisdom was that Mr. Obama had a lackluster performance throughout most of the debate — he certainly had an extremely cautious and defensive strategy — there were few obvious moments in which he said things that will make for compelling YouTube clips or cable news soundbites. Second, head-to-head polls throughout the election cycle have been hard to influence for any reason. There are few undecided voters remaining — and undecided voters may be less likely than others to have actually watched the debates. Still, it seems likely that Mr. Romney will make at least some gains in head-to-head polls after the debate, and entirely plausible that they will be toward the high end of the historical range, in which polls moved by about three percentage points toward the candidate who was thought to have the stronger debate. The FiveThirtyEight “now-cast” — our estimate of what would happen in an election held immediately — had Mr. Romney trailing by a wider margin than three points in advance of the debate. (Instead, it put his deficit at about five points nationwide.) But our Nov. 6 forecast anticipated that the race would tighten some. It’s going to take a few days for any reaction to the debate to filter through the FiveThirtyEight model. My own instant reaction is that Mr. Romney may have done the equivalent of kick a field goal, perhaps not bringing the race to draw, but setting himself up in such a way that his comeback chances have improved by a material amount. The news cycle will be busy between now and Nov. 6, with a jobs report coming out on Friday, a vice-presidential debate next week and then two more presidential debates on Oct. 16 and Oct. 22. According to one prominent offshore gambling site, Pinnacle Sports, Mr. Obama’s odds of winning the election declined to about 73 percent after the debate from around 80 percent beforehand.[/quote] [editline]4th October 2012[/editline] Someone in the comments brought up an interesting point on that article: [quote]The internals on the CNN poll mystify me, though I am often mystified by polls. It seems that they did all their polling with white folks from the south. Do you have any words of wisdom on this, Nate?[/quote] Here's the PDF for that Poll: [URL]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf[/URL] Though I recreated the specific segment he is talking about from page 8. It seems strange to me, but polling isn't my area of expertise. [TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]Total[/TD] [TD]North-East[/TD] [TD]Mid-West[/TD] [TD]South[/TD] [TD]West[/TD] [TD]Urban[/TD] [TD]Suburban[/TD] [TD]Rural[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Obama[/TD] [TD]25%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]22%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]30%[/TD] [TD]20%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Romney[/TD] [TD]67%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]71%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]57%[/TD] [TD]72%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Neither[/TD] [TD]3%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]3%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]3%[/TD] [TD]3%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Both[/TD] [TD]5%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]4%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]6%[/TD] [TD]5%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]No-Opinion[/TD] [TD]*[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]1%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [TD]*[/TD] [TD]1%[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Sampling Error[/TD] [TD]+/- 4.5[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]+/- 8.5[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]+/- 8.5[/TD] [TD]+/- 7.0[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]*percentage less than 1%[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37907728]Here's the full article 538 did on it: [url]http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/polls-show-a-strong-debate-for-romney/[/url] [/QUOTE] that article is 90 words away from being exactly 538 words

[QUOTE=thisispain;37906154]wtf are you serious have you ever spoken in public? are people gonna be as "effective rhetorically" as they are when they are reading [b]prepared speeches[/b], my guess as a functional human being is no. he went to Harvard law school i think he's been in debates before. and yeah dude seriously, you're a joke. you're arguing about teleprompters even though the only people who care about teleprompters are people who are looking for a reason to slam Obama. this is the essence of dog whistle racism, except the difference is that nobody thinks you're being reasonable, everyone just thinks you're making a whole bunch of shit up and embarrassing the other side. it's real difficult to be bipartisan when one side is getting upset over teleprompters.[/QUOTE] The reason people are bringing up a teleprompter is because Obama is a REALLY good speaker with a teleprompter. He is a very persuasive speaker. What everyone is saying is that he wasn't on par with his other speeches, and it kinda hurt him in the debate. I don't see why at all you had to bring racism into the equation; we were talking about his ability to be a great speaker with a teleprompter. And debates are more or less talked about among each other's staff. "How should I respond to this" "What points should I bring up about this" Its both an impromptu and extemporaneous speech.

For the people who think Biden is just a walking gaffe machine [video=youtube;wZ3GszH5wIo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ3GszH5wIo[/video] It's not a debate but the dude can stir an audience.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37907728]538 Stuff[/QUOTE] Thanks. That's pretty informative. I'm sad to see that Obama's chances of winning went down a whole 7%, but at least they're still decent. But there's one thing that perplexes me: [QUOTE]The Five Thirty Eight "now-cast" - our estimate of what would happen in an election held immediately - had Mr. Romney trailing by a wider marginthan three points in advance of the debate. (Instead, it put his deficit at about five points nationwide.)[/QUOTE] Does that mean that the debate actually put a wider gap between Obama and Romney? That's what it seems like to me, but at the same time it seems like it would be the opposite.

Enjoy your mormocrasy. Just remember his stances on civil liberties and bedrooms before you vote.

[QUOTE=Lyoko2;37904256]lol, by reading your comments about how boring is it, I'm just amazed.. it was really interesting debate, I'm not even american and i enjoyed it. Mitt Romney has an excellent plan in my opinion.. lower regulations and taxes in order to let small business owners grow and hire more people that will eventually pay more taxes. He was real clear..[/QUOTE] Bush also lowered regulations and taxes and look where that got us. nearly 1 trillion lost in 8 years. bush tax cuts are still costing us a metric fuck load every year, and the lowered regulations allowed banks to spend most of the people's money to high risk loans that fucked them over and made them crash, hence why we are in a recession. Its proven that lowering taxes doesnt help the economy throughout history unless you are in an economic boom.

[QUOTE=Lyoko2;37904256]lol, by reading your comments about how boring is it, I'm just amazed.. it was really interesting debate, I'm not even american and i enjoyed it. Mitt Romney has an excellent plan in my opinion.. lower regulations and taxes in order to let small business owners grow and hire more people that will eventually pay more taxes. He was real clear..[/QUOTE] this doesnt work "small businesses owners" is a meaningless phrase that politicians use

[QUOTE=person11;37906188]How many people listen closely though.[/QUOTE] I could hear romney's asshole over the sound of my AA12 in Killing Floor. Literally though, you could hear him talking down to the moderator, etc.

[QUOTE=Lyoko2;37904256]lol, by reading your comments about how boring is it, I'm just amazed.. it was really interesting debate, I'm not even american and i enjoyed it. Mitt Romney has an excellent plan in my opinion.. lower regulations and taxes in order to let small business owners grow and hire more people that will eventually pay more taxes. He was real clear..[/QUOTE] Romney's plan would raise taxes on most small business owners, while Obama has lowered them through his term.

Does anyone else think that we have more of a spending problem rather than a revenue problem?

[QUOTE=Lyoko2;37904256]lol, by reading your comments about how boring is it, I'm just amazed.. it was really interesting debate, I'm not even american and i enjoyed it. Mitt Romney has an excellent plan in my opinion.. lower regulations and taxes in order to let small business owners grow and hire more people that will eventually pay more taxes. He was real clear..[/QUOTE] Sure a man might have good ideas but that doesn't make him good for president, there's a lot of other ideas that he endorses that are pretty bad too. I also dislike Obama but all this ever was going to end up being was choosing a lesser of the two evils.

[QUOTE=Coppermoss;37908499]Does anyone else think that we have more of a spending problem rather than a revenue problem?[/QUOTE] yes you have.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;37906127]did you know hitler used telepromters okay that's a lie he just carved his speeches onto the backs of jews.[/QUOTE] I almost spat out my coffee at this.