• Microsoft confirms Windows Update will be mandatory for Windows 10 Home
    126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237182]Windows 8 installs critical updates 48 hours after you've downloaded them. If that isn't enough time to set aside an opportunity to restart your machine then you really can't blame anyone but yourself when it restarts in the middle of your work.[/QUOTE] This is proof that you aren't reading anything. I've countered this before and your only excuse was "well stop using that program and Windows!" [B]Read before replying.[/B]
[QUOTE=TDocter;48237172]Just.. fucking.. read, I couldn't block ELAN software through Windows Update while I could in the past, it's happened to me, and I've gotten realtek updates through Windows Update which I also blocked in the past on my newer laptop, can't do that anymore once I upgrade to Windows 10. It's not just me 'reading' something is wrong, I've experienced it.[/QUOTE] If you go into windows updates and look those are optional updates, not part of the mandatory forced update packages which should only pertain to hotfixes.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48237186]Yep at this moment 3rd party drivers and shit are also forced and removing them only causes windows to reinstall them back.[/QUOTE] If they could just add a button to have us block this completely.. I'd settle for that. [QUOTE=reedbo;48237203]If you go into windows updates and look those are optional updates, not part of the mandatory forced update packages which should only pertain to hotfixes.[/QUOTE] They're not optional in Windows 10 sadly.
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237203]If you go into windows updates and look those are optional updates, not part of the mandatory forced update packages which should only pertain to hotfixes.[/QUOTE] Have you used win 10?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48237209]Have you used win 10?[/QUOTE] It's not released yet. All of the opinions you have about windows 10 are null until you can buy it IMO.
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237228]It's not released yet. All of the opinions you have about windows 10 are null until you can buy it IMO.[/QUOTE] That just makes me angry, you've not tested it all, the version that's out at the moment is the one we're getting on the 29th, even if they fixed it, we'd have to download all that crappy software at the same time as getting those changes and security updates.
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237228]It's not released yet. All of the opinions you have about windows 10 are null until you can buy it IMO.[/QUOTE] If you haven't used 10 then all your opinions about it are null. Because well, you haven't used it.
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237228]It's not released yet. All of the opinions you have about windows 10 are null until you can buy it IMO.[/QUOTE] "It's not released yet" doesn't answer the question of "have you used win 10".
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48233950]can't you just do services.msc->windows updates->(startup mode) manual[/QUOTE] For extreme measure, you could create a hosts file with all the microsoft servers pointed towards 127.0.0.1 There are some sites out there that host huge hosts files to block ads and malware - i really like this one: [url]http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=reedbo;48237228]It's not released yet. All of the opinions you have about windows 10 are null until you can buy it IMO.[/QUOTE] That is a dumb attitude to take and makes your opinion on the matter completely invalid. Win 10 is days away from being RTM (if it isn't already), the current versions out there are almost just as good as the release.
[QUOTE=Medevila;48237463]there's no excuse to be against this for the Home edition where it will invariably do more good than harm[/QUOTE]No one cares about Home edition. But for Pro an option to control this is a must.
Microsoft could make any number of changes before the release date and you know it. All of my previous usage of windows 10 was on buggy pre-release versions.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48237480]No one cares about Home edition. But for Pro an option to control this is a must.[/QUOTE] Duh. It's like you don't know about it [url]https://www.bing.com/search?q=Defer+upgrades+in+Windows+10&filters=guid:%22a0eb9743-5670-4bad-858f-c815c00a2227%22+lang:%22en-us%22&form=S00028[/url] [editline]19th July 2015[/editline] bing help docs are really weird
And that's precisely the reason why they now have a fast and slow ring of updates and why people who are on win10 free from preview are all on the fast ring.
No thanks. Almost all of my major computer issues have come from windows update. The last time I did windows update on my main computer, it got stuck in a two hour "install and restart" loop while it continuously tried to install an update, the update would screw up, it would try to remove the update, restart. Rinse and repeat. Of course, when I googled the issue, what do you know, dozens upon dozens of people had the same issue with the same update. Then there was that update back in the early 2000s that completely bricked my computer.. I don't do windows updates. I don't get viruses and I don't have computer issues.
[QUOTE=reedbo;48236810]Anyone complaining about updates automatically installing is an luser who doesn't install updates in the first place. I hope you guys realize that the updates are for stability and security patches. You wouldn't be interrupted if you would just click install when they pop up and prompt you the first time. No one is doing time-sensitive work all the time, you have an opportunity to update and you're lying if you say you don't.[/QUOTE] Until this happens [url]http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/03/ms-update-3033929-causing-reboot-loop/[/url] And it happens often enough that I'd prefer to wait until it's confirmed to not be shit. [editline]18th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;48236965]You're assuming MS will forcibly ship third party software. They have no reason to do so, the entire point of "forced updates" is to ensure that the OS security holes are actually patched up, and that everybody is on level ground. Third party software doesn't fall into that. My understanding of this (and the only reasonable method I could see them implementing) would be that they ship the recommended updates out, hotfixes, the anti-malware tool (you don't even notice this thing running unless you're on a PIII or something). Drivers and software updates have always fallen into the optional updates category.[/QUOTE] Windows Update already includes drivers for things like computer peripherals or onboard hardware.
[QUOTE=lavacano;48235616]Most people's complaints about Windows Update are about how it has no concept of controlling when it applies updates. Yes, you can technically schedule updates, but this scheduling setting is completely ignored, and Windows Update instead chooses to run updates whenever it feels like it, which is almost always when you're in the middle of something, which not only forces a reboot in the middle of your work/game, but also causes a lot of slowdown from the CPU and disk usage, because WU apparently also has no concept of "people actually use their computers sometimes".[/QUOTE] You have 3 days to install updates before windows will force an update on you, scheduling past that won't normally exempt you, but it might when there are only optional updates. There is an exception for updates marked as super-critical, they have different rules.
[QUOTE=Ridge;48240224]Until this happens [URL]http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/03/ms-update-3033929-causing-reboot-loop/[/URL] And it happens often enough that I'd prefer to wait until it's confirmed to not be shit. [/QUOTE] I am certain this will not happen with Windows 10. Microsoft will not risk it if they are forcing updates.
[QUOTE=Jsm;48240658]I am certain this will not happen with Windows 10. Microsoft will not risk it if they are forcing updates.[/QUOTE] I don't think potentially fucking up 80% of their machines vs 99% changes anything in their motivation to not brick systems. (although tablets with locked boot loader might be one, because you can't recover those easily if you brick them) But there are many other changes since the Windows 7 days, It will try to repair the OS when you unsuccessfully boot multiple times in a row, they have the beta update channel, and the system will disable drivers if they crash on startup, and various other new things system recovery can recover from.
[QUOTE=Ridge;48240224]Windows Update already includes drivers for things like computer peripherals or onboard hardware.[/QUOTE] Uhuh, I said that. And most of it sits in the "optional updates" section, the bit MS don't particularly care about. Right now I have driver updates for my mouse, sound and wireless adapter that I know for a fuck will downgrade what I have installed waiting there. But Windows Update doesn't "force" them on me because they're optional. As they were in Windows 7. As there were in Windows 8. As they would be in Windows 10.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48240891]Uhuh, I said that. And most of it sits in the "optional updates" section, the bit MS don't particularly care about. Right now I have driver updates for my mouse, sound and wireless adapter that I know for a fuck will downgrade what I have installed waiting there. But Windows Update doesn't "force" them on me because they're optional. As they were in Windows 7. As there were in Windows 8. As they would be in Windows 10.[/QUOTE] Have you used Win 10?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48240972]Have you used Win 10?[/QUOTE] I've not used the technical previews. But this is something that quite literally hasn't changed since Mircosoft introduced it. They have no reason to start offering drivers for things that aren't system critical through Update as a required update. Windows 10 isn't a massive overhaul of the platform, it's a big set of changes sure, but a lot of it still looks like it functions exactly as it did in Windows 7/8/8.1 with some extra quality of life features on it.
No optional updates in windows 10. Less entry barrier for windows update driver submission. Faster driver acceptation process. Higher static driver verification requirements. Microsoft signs/collects all drivers.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48237480]No one cares about Home edition. But for Pro an option to control this is a must.[/QUOTE] Where is this stupid "lol who cares about Home" bullshit coming from. For basically literally anybody that bought a prebuilt computer or laptop with Windows 7 Home Premium/Windows 8, thereby getting Windows 10 Home in the upgrade, it is very much a big deal and and people definitely do care. I never knew there was some sort of Windows tier elitism until this thread. Also as recently as sometime last year a security update made Windows 7 computers blue screen on restart, so forced updates are definitely an extraordinarily bad idea unless they come with a vastly enhanced quality assurance system.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48241424]I've not used the technical previews. But this is something that quite literally hasn't changed since Mircosoft introduced it. They have no reason to start offering drivers for things that aren't system critical through Update as a required update. Windows 10 isn't a massive overhaul of the platform, it's a big set of changes sure, but a lot of it still looks like it functions exactly as it did in Windows 7/8/8.1 with some extra quality of life features on it.[/QUOTE] Sooo... you're just talking out of your ass then? Because in 10 preview driver updates are not optional and go along with the rest of them. [QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;48242072] I never knew there was some sort of Windows tier elitism until this thread. [/QUOTE] Not elitism as much as home version being known for catering to casual people who know little about computers and having locked features and settings. Weird how people seem to not mind forced updates and say it doesn't change anything but when asked if they used 10 they have not.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48242092]Sooo... you're just talking out of your ass then? Because in 10 preview driver updates are not optional and go along with the rest of them.[/QUOTE] What happens when you install a driver from not-WU? e.g. from the manufacturer's site itself?
[QUOTE=lavacano;48242424]What happens when you install a driver from not-WU? e.g. from the manufacturer's site itself?[/QUOTE] It doesn't install the driver from windows update when the installed version has a higher version number. But it was common during Windows 10 preview, that 3rd parties fucked up, and the windows update version would overwrite the higher version.
[QUOTE=Cold;48242551]It doesn't install the driver from windows update when the installed version has a higher version number. But it was common during Windows 10 preview, that 3rd parties fucked up, and the windows update version would overwrite the higher version.[/QUOTE] Though if you have a different driver windows update will insist on its version.
[QUOTE=Panda X;48236904]Since updates will now get pushed to insiders weeks in advanced for testing there shouldn't be updates that'll mess up Windows for home users. Even though that was already extremely rare.[/QUOTE] Even so I have seen so many computers get fucked because people can't keep their shit updated and then they get tons of viruses because they took advantage of unpatched exploits- exploits patched by updates. This is for home users. The vast, vast majority of people who use these devices, people who aren't tech savvy, are better off with this. Given the astronomically high chance of getting a serious virus by running outdated software and the comparatively low risk of getting a Windows update that breaks everything, I know exactly which side I want to stand on.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48242601]Though if you have a different driver windows update will insist on its version.[/QUOTE] In that case I'll be disabling the Windows Update service except when actually performing system updates. It's been a universal constant for me that any time a program (WU included) tried to manage my drivers for me, and wasn't supplied directly from the company who made the hardware (nobody but AMD/nVidia does this), the drivers would cause problems (ancient version, wrong driver, wrong hardware entirely...). MS doesn't push out a whole lot of nasty updates themselves, but whoever maintains the driver repos for third parties...
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