Tesla stock surges after Q4 deliveries come out 20% above expectations - Polidicks

Well, Musk is occasionally referred to as the Henry Ford of electric vehicles.

yeah just wait until the bubble bursts the hyped up Chinese markets are the only thing keeping the stocks afloat. it's the old soup and handle. i give it a week before everyone is trying to sell off their falling tesla coins desperately.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43539795]Electric cars for $15k will probably exist one day but they won't have Tesla written on them.[/QUOTE] Isn't the Nissan Leaf pretty accessible? Even though it sucks major balls and most people would rather drive a golf cart

I was thinking more on the lines of a 30-50k Tesla. More middle class workers here could Afford one that price considering the tax breaks and we buy trucks that cost that much.

[QUOTE=OvB;43539731]Won't be able to do that till batteries get cheaper.[/QUOTE] yeah, it's gonna be a few years but I agree with the point you alluded to... tesla may be a higher end manufacturer, but to give up the chance to be the car that made electric vehicles viable for the rest of us just to remain "higher class" would be a really bad business move i meant majority in my first post as well..

The first blog post from Musk at Tesla. The "top secret master plan" [url]http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me[/url]

[QUOTE=MR2;43540531]Isn't the Nissan Leaf pretty accessible? Even though it sucks major balls and most people would rather drive a golf cart[/QUOTE] Leaf is decent as a commuter vehicle but you end up wanting a second vehicle for times where you want to drive more than an hour at a time [editline]14th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=OvB;43540901]The first blog post from Musk at Tesla. The "top secret master plan" [url]http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me[/url][/QUOTE] if musk believes in electricity so much how come his rockets still use fuel HUH ANSWER ME THAT

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43541066]Leaf is decent as a commuter vehicle but you end up wanting a second vehicle for times where you want to drive more than an hour at a time [editline]14th January 2014[/editline] if musk believes in electricity so much how come his rockets still use fuel HUH ANSWER ME THAT[/QUOTE] He eventually wants to make a solar powered rocket fuel factoy ;)

[QUOTE=OvB;43540901]The first blog post from Musk at Tesla. The "top secret master plan" [url]http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me[/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Critical to making that happen is an electric car without compromises, which is why the Tesla Roadster is designed to beat a gasoline sports car like a Porsche or Ferrari in a head to head showdown.[/QUOTE] ...But, the Tesla Roadster is a bit of a turd and the only Porsche it can beat in a showdown is a 944. It can't even beat a Lotus Elise, except on the quarter mile because torque. But, much like the Model S, it's the only thing it has going for it, the torque :v: And you still have to compromise engine sound and gears, manually selectable gears, which most sports car buyers and car enthusiasts wouldn't just throw away.

A $12-$20k tesla is perfectly possible guys Keep in mind you get an assload of rebate money back for going electric from the government - its one of the incentives to buying an electric car. If the general-consumer level tesla is $25K, then the tax rebate you could get from the goverment would bring that price down to[B] $17.5K[/B]. Electric cars also enjoy no gas cost (duh) which means you save on average $1k-1.2k a year on gas assuming the alternative is a high fuel efficient car (and you drive moderately). You also enjoy much much reduced maintenance costs since electric motors have much less that can go wrong with them that would need replaced (no oil changes for example). That last bit is major: continued operation costs is the one thing that will cost you more than anything else over the lifetime of owning a car. Electric cars enjoy an average maintence cost that is a third of the cost to run a gasoline car, because of this. The only major downside is current battery technology - while you won't have to worry about maintence as much on an electric car, eventually the batteries will go bad and will need replaced, which is very expensive. Still, think about it. Lets assume you own a theoretical tesla car at $25K, whats the real true cost of ownership after five years? $17.5K paid right out of the gate including the govt rebate -$5K for 5 years of not paying gas (I'm going to assume $1K will be the electric cost) -$2.5K for $500 or so averaged per year in maintence wear you don't have to worry about (estimation) Which means the total money spent on such an electric car after 5 years is comparable to the money spent on a standard gas car purchased at $10K after 5 years. After 10 years, its even better - the total money spent on the car purchased at $10K is much greater than the total money spent to own the electric you bought at $25K even though the initial purchase price was much more expensive. Its just a shame though that electric cars still have pretty poor resale value because of the battery though. They are a lot like SSDs- much more unlikely that mechanical problems will go wrong, and they are simply more efficient (no gas), but they have a predictable limited lifespan thanks to the battery. Thats the only reason why I wouldn't want an electric right now - battery tech needs to get better and hopefully cheaper. Good news is, by the time we have teslas at $20-$25K price points, in all likelihood it'll be because the battery tech got better and cheaper to support that price.

[QUOTE=OvB;43539882]Teslas whole existence is to advance EV tech so that they can eventually make cheap cars. They made expensive low volume cars first because thats the easiest way to start. No ones going to invest billions into a start up to buy mass production plants and factories. Many EV companies tried and failed that way. You have to prove yourself first. Not to mention Tesla already supplies batteries and powertrains to Smart, Honda and Merecedes for their EVs. [editline]14th January 2014[/editline] Model S and X are low volume, high cost luxury cars. Model E will be their first medium cost mass market car, then after that they want a truck to compete with Ford, and high volume, low cost cars.[/QUOTE] So Tesla is like the Sony of videogames? Remember they worked for nintendo and then came out with their own gaming device Anyway, I fear that giant oil business tycoons might try to steer out Tesla from the martket or make them go bankrupt. This happened with trolleys inside cities during the 20/30s. Oil companies got together and by lowering prices promoting vehicles made trolley businesses go bankrupt.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;43542466]So Tesla is like the Sony of videogames? Remember they worked for nintendo and then came out with their own gaming device Anyway, I fear that giant oil business tycoons might try to steer out Tesla from the martket or make them go bankrupt. This happened with trolleys inside cities during the 20/30s. Oil companies got together and by lowering prices promoting vehicles made trolley businesses go bankrupt.[/QUOTE] Tesla designs electric powertrains for some big companies. Tesla also sells them ZEV credits, so they're in good standing with the big guys for awhile. [url]http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/17/tesla-sells-most-zev-green-car-credits-gm-buys-most/[/url]

[QUOTE=MR2;43541730]...But, the Tesla Roadster is a bit of a turd and the only Porsche it can beat in a showdown is a 944. It can't even beat a Lotus Elise, except on the quarter mile because torque. But, much like the Model S, it's the only thing it has going for it, the torque :v: And you still have to compromise engine sound and gears, manually selectable gears, which most sports car buyers and car enthusiasts wouldn't just throw away.[/QUOTE] Why the dumb ratings? Nothing I said is wrong. Just because Tesla's PR department says their cars can beat a Ferrari doesn't make it true, sorry tesla fanboys.

[QUOTE=MR2;43545512]Why the dumb ratings? Nothing I said is wrong. Just because Tesla's PR department says their cars can beat a Ferrari doesn't make it true, sorry tesla fanboys.[/QUOTE] Probably because of that last bit, which has nothing to do with performance at all and is a pure matter of taste but was spun as if its a factual downside Also that snippet in the first place doesn't really have anything to do with what the point of that article or the point of the OP's

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43540082]I'd obviously love a $20k Tesla 8-12 years down the line but honestly, I just can't see it happening But hey maybe I'll be wrong and Tesla will become a household name like Ford, that would be the best kind of being wrong[/QUOTE] Well the plan is to essentially create the infrastructure to make EV's worthwhile for people who are actually using them as well as generating cheaper, more effective models as the years go on. Give it a few generations and we might be sorted. I just want them to move to the UK and roll shit out in Scotland.

[QUOTE=KorJax;43545647]Probably because of that last bit, which has nothing to do with performance at all and is a pure matter of taste but was spun as if its a factual downside [/QUOTE] Exactly, so "no compromises" is subjective.

I like the Design of the Tesla Roadster. It looks quite cool.

[QUOTE=bravehat;43546056]Well the plan is to essentially create the infrastructure to make EV's worthwhile for people who are actually using them as well as generating cheaper, more effective models as the years go on. Give it a few generations and we might be sorted. I just want them to move to the UK and roll shit out in Scotland.[/QUOTE] What's the weather like in Scotland? Tesla's terms state your battery warranty is [b]void[/b] if the car is exposed to -30C or lower for 24 hours. That excludes a lot of North America and Europe. Don't know if Scotland gets that cold though.

scottland doesn't get that cold only canada does and that is probably just because they are very well aware that the battery will be completely drained after 24 hours of that weather and there is some wonkey OS problem when the battery completely drains out

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43550254]What's the weather like in Scotland? Tesla's terms state your battery warranty is [b]void[/b] if the car is exposed to -30C or lower for 24 hours. That excludes a lot of North America and Europe. Don't know if Scotland gets that cold though.[/QUOTE] where does it say that? also, I thought they were winterizing/coldproofing the car for northern regions of europe and north america.

[QUOTE=bravehat;43546056]Well the plan is to essentially create the infrastructure to make EV's worthwhile for people who are actually using them as well as generating cheaper, more effective models as the years go on. Give it a few generations and we might be sorted. I just want them to move to the UK and roll shit out in Scotland.[/QUOTE] Teslas already in the UK I thought?

[QUOTE=Grasp;43550291]where does it say that?[/QUOTE] I got it from a Model S owner in [url=http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25825-Really-cold-tomorrow]this thread[/url]. Topic comes up at the bottom of page 1, clarification on page 2. Here's another thread about [url=http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26086-Many-Norwegian-car-owners-report-UMC-problems-specially-during-cold-weather]Norwegians having problems with the Model S due to cold weather[/url], including not being able to charge at all or waking up in the morning to see that charging stopped some time in the night and their battery is dead. Also, because of the way the door and windows are designed, if your side windows ice up you [i]cannot open the door to your car.[/i] Regen is also disabled at even a few degrees below 0C, drastically changing how the car drives. It seems Tesla has really overhyped their car's winter performance.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43550254]What's the weather like in Scotland? Tesla's terms state your battery warranty is [b]void[/b] if the car is exposed to -30C or lower for 24 hours. That excludes a lot of North America and Europe. Don't know if Scotland gets that cold though.[/QUOTE] No trouble in Norway yet. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TelUR5Bg9zE[/media] performance is good too [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9uDJGi52A[/media] (I love 2:20) Also, the supercharger network already covers most of Norway: [url]http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger[/url] You can look at the teslamotorsclub forum and read posts from Canadian owners too: [url]http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/95-Canada?[/url]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43550254]What's the weather like in Scotland? Tesla's terms state your battery warranty is [b]void[/b] if the car is exposed to -30C or lower for 24 hours. That excludes a lot of North America and Europe. Don't know if Scotland gets that cold though.[/QUOTE] According to wikipedia, the coldest registered temperature in the UK is −27.2 °C in Braemar, Scotland, 1982. Though the temperature is close to the -30 degrees, I think it is safe to say that the current Tesla's are UK-compatible.

[QUOTE=OvB;43550547]No trouble in Norway yet. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TelUR5Bg9zE[/media] performance is good too [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9uDJGi52A[/media] (I love 2:20) Also, the supercharger network already covers most of Norway: [url]http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger[/url] You can look at the teslamotorsclub forum and read posts from Canadian owners too: [url]http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/95-Canada?[/url][/QUOTE] I linked to a thread with several Norwegian Model S owners having problems. It's good to hear that Canadians aren't having as much trouble, but most appear to be in BC or Ontario.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43550583]I linked to a thread with several Norwegian Model S owners having problems.[/QUOTE] Was typing while you posted that. Didn't see it. First time I've heard of any issues. [editline]15th January 2014[/editline] Sounds like trouble with the charging connector which Tesla blames on the Norwegian grid. Also not having as much defrost options as they'd like. If it's a fixable problem on Tesla's end with the charger I'd think they would send a new one out that works. As for defrosting, that can be fixed with an over the air update if the car already has those options from the inside. Though the fact the OP said Tesla was ignoring the problem is concerning and doesn't seem to fit with Tesla's model. I expect we'll see more about it in the near future.

The issue with side windows and door handles icing up is probably the biggest one and likely can't be fixed without redesigning the vehicle. Cold sometimes makes cars perform poorly, that's understandable even with an ICE vehicle. But actually preventing you from getting inside is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43550410]I got it from a Model S owner in [url=http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25825-Really-cold-tomorrow]this thread[/url]. Topic comes up at the bottom of page 1, clarification on page 2. Here's another thread about [url=http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26086-Many-Norwegian-car-owners-report-UMC-problems-specially-during-cold-weather]Norwegians having problems with the Model S due to cold weather[/url], including not being able to charge at all or waking up in the morning to see that charging stopped some time in the night and their battery is dead. Also, because of the way the door and windows are designed, if your side windows ice up you [i]cannot open the door to your car.[/i] Regen is also disabled at even a few degrees below 0C, drastically changing how the car drives. It seems Tesla has really overhyped their car's winter performance.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the info Zeke, I hadn't seen it before. I hope they do some redesigns to fix things up then, if only just for the cold weather versions.