Texas Executes Man With IQ of 61; State Cites Steinbeck’s “Of Mice and Men” To Justify Killing - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sand;37182269]To justify the death penalty, people that mass murder or commit a crime that is brutal should get the death penalty, and not this bs appeals for 20 years before they die. The world does not need them, and taxpayers do not need to pay for them to have a nice life in prison, they should just be executed after being found guilty, and none of this "insanity" nonsense.[/QUOTE] Yeah man that bs appeals process that gets innocent people exonerated from death row. By the way good job justifying the death penalty with your bloodlust.

[QUOTE=maurits150;37143607]Execution on itself is bad and never justified.[/QUOTE] Killing Mao before he can do shit is totally justified.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37182031]This might possibly be the most disgusting pro death penalty argument I have ever heard that wasn't trolling. I am not even kidding.[/quote] i don't really see how it's disgusting in my system you trade a few more salient, high-visibility deaths for less deaths and better quality of life overall. [quote]So instead of making prison a more humane experience the solution is to keep using the death penalty. Clearly sane.[/QUOTE] did you even read what I said I said that rehabilitation is better than capital punishment. I support the norwegian-style of prisons over the status quo rehab > execution > LWP

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37185948]i don't really see how it's disgusting in my system you trade a few more salient, high-visibility deaths for less deaths and better quality of life overall.[/quote] "Basically, the sheer amount of money spent on deathrow appeals is not enough to justify the small amount of innocent lives saved from being executed." Yeah nothing disgusting about this at all. [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37185948] did you even read what I said I said that rehabilitation is better than capital punishment. I support the norwegian-style of prisons over the status quo rehab > [B]execution > LWP[/B][/QUOTE] Yeah clearly I did read what you said because you just basically repeated it.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37180595]I don't have any bloodlust, I see execution as the only sane alternative to rehabilitation. Life without parole is the worst of all worlds.[/QUOTE] sorry to go slightly off topic, but didn't you once say you'd rather have everyone in the world raped one time rather than everyone killed? you seemed to think murder was a worse crime than rape but here you're actually advocating ending someone's life over life imprisonment if you want to know my opinion, rehabilitation is the only acceptable option [editline]11th August 2012[/editline] like, you made it clear that losing your life was pretty much the worst thing that could ever happen to you and now you seem to not be so sure about that [editline]11th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36680502]well as a consequentialist-utilitarian it is kind of important to me I mean if you had to choose between an entire civilization being raped once, and an entire civilization getting killed once (and forever), I fucking hope you'd choose the rape option[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turnips5;37186407]sorry to go slightly off topic, but didn't you once say you'd rather have everyone in the world raped one time rather than everyone killed? you seemed to think murder was a worse crime than rape but here you're actually advocating ending someone's life over life imprisonment if you want to know my opinion, rehabilitation is the only acceptable option [editline]11th August 2012[/editline] like, you made it clear that losing your life was pretty much the worst thing that could ever happen to you and now you seem to not be so sure about that [editline]11th August 2012[/editline][/QUOTE] oh yeah that's true, I think that getting killed is the worst thing that can happen to you. It's just that that doesn't have an infinite negative utility - it's a finite amount that can be compared against other things. If I can trade executing one person in exchange for money that will be spent on saving the lives of multiple people, then I'll accept that trade, ceteris paribus. [editline]11th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Boxbot219;37186332]"Basically, the sheer amount of money spent on deathrow appeals is not enough to justify the small amount of innocent lives saved from being executed." Yeah nothing disgusting about this at all.[/QUOTE] if saving more lives is classified as disgusting then I'll wear that as a badge of honor. I don't give a fuck if executing people makes you feel uncomfortable, this isn't about you. This isn't about how it feels cold and mechanical and machiavellian to speak of lives in terms of cash value, but the human brain didn't evolve to make rational utility calculations so it's to be expected. If you value the fuzzy feeling you get when an innocent deathrow inmate is exonerated over a better plan that makes you feel sick to your stomach, all that reveals is how obscenely highly you value your sense of self-satisfaction.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37187117]oh yeah that's true, I think that getting killed is the worst thing that can happen to you. It's just that that doesn't have an infinite negative utility - it's a finite amount that can be compared against other things. If I can trade executing one person in exchange for money that will be spent on saving the lives of multiple people, then I'll accept that trade, ceteris paribus.[/QUOTE] okay, that seems fair enough. I figure it should just follow from this that the death penalty is unacceptable and that's all there really needs to be said about it - I get that it's wasting a load of money (which could be used to save lives), and that money could be used to rehabilitate people instead so let's push for that

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37187117] if saving more lives is classified as disgusting then I'll wear that as a badge of honor. I don't give a fuck if executing people makes you feel uncomfortable, this isn't about you. This isn't about how it feels cold and mechanical and machiavellian to speak of lives in terms of cash value, but the human brain didn't evolve to make rational utility calculations so it's to be expected. If you value the fuzzy feeling you get when an innocent deathrow inmate is exonerated over a better plan that makes you feel sick to your stomach, all that reveals is how obscenely highly you value your sense of self-satisfaction.[/QUOTE]This isn't about me. This is about the innocent people that you would gladly subject to death row with no chance of making an appeal all for an incredibly dubious idea of "saving multiple lives" with the money saved. You clearly don't comprehend what it's like to face death for a crime you didn't commit, and I guarantee that your opinion would be drastically different if you ever had to experience that.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37187373]This isn't about me. This is about the innocent people that you would gladly subject to death row with no chance of making an appeal all for an incredibly dubious idea of "saving multiple lives" with the money saved. You clearly don't comprehend what it's like to face death for a crime you didn't commit, and I guarantee that your opinion would be drastically different if you ever had to experience that.[/QUOTE] appeal to emotion also yes I know that it's unlikely that the money would be spent optimally, I said that at the very beginning. all of my arguments thus far have been subjunctive.

You know what? Since you seem to like to quantify these kinds of concepts with money let's just entirely remove the appeals process in general. Let's just throw anyone who is ever accused of a crime in prison without the hassle of a trial to serve their sentence. Think of all the lives we could save with all that money saved!

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37187450]You know what? Since you seem to like to quantify these kinds of concepts with money let's just entirely remove the appeals process in general. Let's just throw anyone who is ever accused of a crime in prison without the hassle of a trial to serve their sentence. Think of all the lives we could save with all that money saved![/QUOTE] there's no equivalence and you know it

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37187560]there's no equivalence and you know it[/QUOTE] What do you mean no equivalence? Why the double standard? Why are you willing to sacrifice an innocent's ability to appeal in the death penalty for the sake of other lives but are unwilling to sacrifice someone's ability to defend themselves in court for the sake of other lives? Would you agree that other lives are worth more than a fair trial going by your logic?

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37187608]Why the double standard? Why are you willing to sacrifice an innocent's ability to appeal in the death penalty for the sake of other lives but are unwilling to sacrifice someone's ability to defend themselves in court for the sake of other lives?[/QUOTE] no you retard indiscriminately executing people based on hearsay won't prevent deaths the reason judicial punishment even happens is so that there's a deterrence to committing crimes, and so that those who are caught committing crimes aren't allowed to commit more for a set period (or ever if they get executed). this only works if there's a strong correlation between committing a crime and getting caught along with other social factors like drawing contempt from the community. if you decouple the two you don't get an efficient judicial system, you get a pogrom if you can decouple them a little bit in exchange for a large benefit then you can do that but no further. that's not even counting the cascading economic effects from the terrified populace trying to resist getting lynched

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37187908]no you retard indiscriminately executing people based on hearsay won't prevent deaths the reason judicial punishment even happens is so that there's a deterrence to committing crimes, and so that those who are caught committing crimes aren't allowed to commit more for a set period (or ever if they get executed). this only works if there's a strong correlation between committing a crime and getting caught along with other social factors like drawing contempt from the community. if you decouple the two you don't get an efficient judicial system, you get a pogrom if you can decouple them a little bit in exchange for a large benefit then you can do that but no further. that's not even counting the cascading economic effects from the terrified populace trying to resist getting lynched[/QUOTE] And I'm sure you have proof of any of this just like you have proof of removing the appeals process from the death penalty would save lives, right? I mean you wouldn't just make a needless life and death decision based on a hunch would you? [editline]12th August 2012[/editline] The point is you said that the death penalty without an appeal process would be preferable without even considering the implication of that. You do realize that if our government decided to go in that direction you can pretty much kiss any chance of a rehabilitative system goodbye. And the kind of people who would allow the system to go in that direction (the kind of people who would trade lives for money) would not have the people's best interests in mind with what to do with that saved money. All you idiots can spam me with boxes all you want. I can take comfort in knowing that I'm not the kind of person who would strip the appeals process out of the highest form of judicial punishment.

As a native Texan, it's really disheartening to see people do really stupid shit like this. Gives the real Texans a bad name :/ Also we don't ride horses to school, etc etc