EA pulls A Capcom: New Video Shows Mass Effect 3 Day-One DLC Already On Disc - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Saza;35099784]no, you are buying a license to play [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] That's a pretty dumb idea. It's pretty fun.[/QUOTE] I have problems opening Mass Effect 3 since I got to the ending. I don't mean technical problem, just feel somewhat depressed. I'll give it a shot when I feel a tad better.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099805]Apparently EULAs can take away your legal rights![/QUOTE] do you people not read you don't get rights to the game. you get a license to play it. you are not allowed to modify it unless expressed. [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Feuver;35099813]I have problems opening Mass Effect 3 since I got to the ending. I don't mean technical problem, just feel somewhat depressed. I'll give it a shot when I feel a tad better.[/QUOTE] I don't blame you on this, the ending was pretty meh (especially if you save before you choose which then see them all.)

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099805]Apparently EULAs can take away your legal rights![/QUOTE] You don't have a right to all the content on the disc because you never bought the disc. You bought the right to use certain content from the disc. Holy shit it isn't that hard to grasp. You aren't paying for the physical media that holds content, you are paying for certain content on the media. Fuck. It's perfectly legal, and has been how all media is sold since the inception of storing entertainment.

[QUOTE=Saza;35099821]do you people not read you don't get rights to the game. you get a license to play it. you are not allowed to modify it unless expressed. [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] I don't blame you on this, the ending was pretty meh (especially if you save before you choose which then see them all.)[/QUOTE] Read my post ammendment, legally there is no such thing as a license as the product is sold as is, and nowhere does it state you are buying a license to it on the box, thus you technically own the product as far as any DECENT (see: not USA) court sees it. I'm gonna go buy a license to eat a bar of chocolate!

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099843]Read my post ammendment, legally there is no such thing as a license as the product is sold as is, and nowhere does it state you are buying a license to it on the box, thus you technically own the product as far as any DECENT (see: not USA) court sees it.[/QUOTE] I guess I can whip out my ME3 case and check, or the legal pamphlet if you'd like to see that one too

[QUOTE=Saza;35099863]I guess I can whip out my ME3 case and check, or the legal pamphlet if you'd like to see that one too[/QUOTE] Oh something inside of the box? It's not advertised on the box and thus you are buying something that is different to how it is advertised. Oh wait, aren't you American? You probably don't understand proper advertising law.

[QUOTE=Saza;35099821]you don't get rights to the game. you get a license to play it. you are not allowed to modify it unless expressed.[/QUOTE] Unless you're in German court, at which point you get laughed out of court because they don't deem the EULA (accepted via transaction is the argument the producer uses) a legally binding contract.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099843]I'm gonna go buy a license to eat a bar of chocolate![/QUOTE] Holy shit it's like you're being a retard on purpose. There is a difference between entertainment and media, and consumables. Stop making shit comparisons.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35099881]Holy shit it's like you're being a retard on purpose. There is a difference between entertainment and media, and consumables. Stop making shit comparisons.[/QUOTE] Products are products, and maybe I'm being cynical?

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099874]Oh something inside of the box? It's not advertised on the box and thus you are buying something that is different to how it is advertised. Oh wait, aren't you American? You probably don't understand proper advertising law.[/QUOTE] yeah I just checked regardless and I can't argue with the fact that it isn't on or in the box and yes, I am American, and I fucking hate that too [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Legend286;35099895]Products are products, and maybe I'm being cynical?[/QUOTE] *stupid you can't really re-use a chocolate bar. unless you want to eat your own feces which I doubt anyone would, and you wouldn't get the original product again and again from that one bar

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;35099878]Unless you're in German court, at which point you get laughed out of court because they don't deem the EULA (accepted via transaction is the argument the producer uses) a legally binding contract.[/QUOTE] I really doubt you'd have a case if you brought this up in any court. Just because something is there doesn't mean you own it when you buy what it normally fits into. (technology - car analogy time) When you buy a car, you get optional extras like a nicer radio, alloys, things that make the car nicer, right? When you buy the base model of the car you don't expect to just be given any of that right? Just because the car would normally have all of that extra crap on it, and the model you buy is probably stripped of that extra stuff, doesn't mean you are entitled to it when you buy it.

[QUOTE=Saza;35099904]yeah I just checked regardless and I can't argue with the fact that it isn't on or in the box and yes, I am American, and I fucking hate that too [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] *stupid you can't really re-use a chocolate bar. unless you want to eat your own feces which I doubt anyone would, and you wouldn't get the original product again and again from that one bar[/QUOTE] The point is not that you can re-use it, why even bring that up? Games are meant to be played sure, but when you buy a movie you aren't buying a license to it (where do you see an end user agreement stating you don't own the dvd & its contents (own != own the rights to, own = own this copy.) [editline]12th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;35099923]I really doubt you'd have a case if you brought this up in any court. Just because something is there doesn't mean you own it when you buy what it normally fits into. (technology - car analogy time) When you buy a car, you get optional extras like a nicer radio, alloys, things that make the car nicer, right? When you buy the base model of the car you don't expect to just be given any of that right? Just because the car would normally have all of that extra crap on it, and the model you buy is probably stripped of that extra stuff, doesn't mean you are entitled to it when you buy it.[/QUOTE] Expensive cars are a luxury, video games are not. If you have the money to buy a car that DOESN'T come with a radio (aka £50,000+) they can easily get you to pay for shit you would get free in another car. But with games nowadays, you pay £40 for a new game, and then pay another £20 to unlock things that by right you should have access to if they were included with the game. Buying something and then having to pay more to use certain portions of it is illegal. It's like if you bought said car and it came with a radio, but you had to pay for a special code for it to work.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099952]The point is not that you can re-use it, why even bring that up? Games are meant to be played sure, but when you buy a movie you aren't buying a license to it (where do you see an end user agreement stating you don't own the dvd & its contents (own != own the rights to, own = own this copy.)[/QUOTE] whoops I guessed I missed that one too

[QUOTE=Legend286;35099952]The point is not that you can re-use it, why even bring that up? Games are meant to be played sure, but when you buy a movie you aren't buying a license to it (where do you see an end user agreement stating you don't own the dvd & its contents (own != own the rights to, own = own this copy.)[/QUOTE] Actually, you are buying a licence to a movie. The agreements aren't entirely the same as a video game, but you are licensing the movie from the publishers, agreeing not to use it for commercial or public viewings, and not to copy it illegally (personal backups vs. sharing it with the world stuff).

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35099989]Actually, you are buying a licence to a movie. The agreements aren't entirely the same as a video game, but you are licensing the movie from the publishers, agreeing not to use it for commercial or public viewings, and not to copy it illegally (personal backups vs. sharing it with the world stuff).[/QUOTE] You still own the content on the disk and the disk itself, you don't own the rights to the content (but when do you own the rights to anything you buy? It's copyrighted for a reason.) Thinking in the mindset of idiotic publishers who are just out to make a buck, does the fact you own only a "license" mean they can come into your house and take away your boxed copy whenever they see fit because it's theirs? No, they can't because you own that boxed copy.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35099989]Actually, you are buying a licence to a movie. The agreements aren't entirely the same as a video game, but you are licensing the movie from the publishers, agreeing not to use it for commercial or public viewings, and not to copy it illegally (personal backups vs. sharing it with the world stuff).[/QUOTE] i think the pivotal thing here is that when you buy a movie, you can do whatever the fuck you want to the disc itself as long as you don't effect others/resell/distribute copies. and that dvd can't be "locked out" if you decide to call someone a fucktard.

Shepard: You refused to agree to our EULA. Obviously you are a pirate and deserve this. Lorik Qi'in: What insane breed of logic is that?!

[QUOTE=Legend286;35100023]You still own the content on the disk and the disk itself, you don't own the rights to the content (but when do you own the rights to anything you buy? It's copyrighted for a reason.)[/QUOTE] Which is how video game licensing works, you don't own the rights to content you haven't paid for the rights to use. You need the right to use something, buying something that contains the data is well and good, but that doesn't mean you can actually use it until you have a licence that gives you the right to access the data. I'm not defending EA over this in any way shape or form, I do this in every thread about "Day 1 DLC THEIVERY!!!!!!!", because most of the arguments against it are pitiful. You don't pay for something, you don't use it, simple. It being there is no reason for you to use it. [editline]12th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Dubious George;35100027]i think the pivotal thing here is that when you buy a movie, you can do whatever the fuck you want to the disc itself as long as you don't effect others/resell/distribute copies. and that dvd can't be "locked out" if you decide to call someone a fucktard.[/QUOTE] You can do what you want with the disc and data of the game to a certain extent. Much in the same way as a DVD, what's you point there? And everybody already condemns EA over the banning shit, because it is actually retarded.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35100066]Which is how video game licensing works, you don't own the rights to content you haven't paid for the rights to use. You need the right to use something, buying something that contains the data is well and good, but that doesn't mean you can actually use it until you have a licence that gives you the right to access the data. I'm not defending EA over this in any way shape or form, I do this in every thread about "Day 1 DLC THEIVERY!!!!!!!", because most of the arguments against it are pitiful. You don't pay for something, you don't use it, simple. It being there is no reason for you to use it. [editline]12th March 2012[/editline] You can do what you want with the disc and data of the game to a certain extent. Much in the same way as a DVD, what's you point there? And everybody already condemns EA over the banning shit, because it is actually retarded.[/QUOTE] I think the discussion of EULAs and everything has gone on enough, if people want to bend over and forfeit their rights it's their choice. At the end of the day, what EA are doing is idiotic. All these problems would have never arisen if they had just kept the content off the disc in the first place, the whole point of downloadable content is that you have to download it.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35100145]I think the discussion of EULAs and everything has gone on enough, if people want to bend over and forfeit their rights it's their choice. At the end of the day, what EA are doing is idiotic. All these problems would have never arisen if they had just kept the content off the disc in the first place, the whole point of downloadable content is that you have to download it.[/QUOTE] The term DLC is pretty retarded anyway. Expansion/ Expansion pack is much, much more sensible.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35100159]The term DLC is pretty retarded anyway. Expansion/ Expansion pack is much, much more sensible.[/QUOTE] uh DLC just means any game content you download. expansion pack is just a roundabout way of saying it.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35100204]uh DLC just means any game content you download. expansion pack is just a roundabout way of saying it.[/QUOTE] Expansions can be downloaded, or on physical media. And actually expand a game. It is the same thing, yes, but expansion would get a lot less backlash today I expect, DLC has so many negative connotations with many people.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35100228]Expansions can be downloaded, or on physical media. And actually expand a game. It is the same thing, yes, but expansion would get a lot less backlash today I expect, DLC has so many negative connotations with many people.[/QUOTE] Expansion pack implies that it took time to create, DLC is a way for the publishers to make a quick buck. Sometimes publishers release expansion packs as dlc though, such as with Bethesda or Rockstar. But you can certainly tell they aren't DLC quality.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35100270]Expansion pack implies that it took time to create, [B]DLC is a way for the publishers to make a quick buck[/B]. Sometimes publishers release expansion packs as dlc though, such as with Bethesda or Rockstar. But you can certainly tell they aren't DLC quality.[/QUOTE] This is what I mean by negative connotations. Thanks to people confusing proper expansions, and small pieces of content, the term DLC is frowned upon. Meaning even if the DLC has hours of content, just because it's called DLC will cause some people to flip shit for no reason.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35100066]You can do what you want with the disc and data of the game to a certain extent. Much in the same way as a DVD, what's you point there?[/QUOTE] which means it's legal for me to unlock the day one DLC from the me3 copy that I theoretically purchased.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35099923]and the model you buy is probably stripped of that extra stuff,[/QUOTE] And therein the analogy falls apart. The objection to on-disc content that needs to be bought (refuse to call it DLC) isn't that it's stripped out of the game to be re-sold (that is a different demon in and of itself, and something else ME3 does) but that it's actually [I]there[/I], and you're paying to activate it. A closer analogy is that you're paying for the wires that connect them (which works really well considering that both are easily, although not legally in the case of games, rectified)

[QUOTE=Coffee;35095576]Except you should pay a standard price for a complete product, not a standard price for a half assed product that's missing content which you have to buy separately for extortionate prices.[/QUOTE] It's not half assed or missing content. The content has no bearing on how the game plays out. It's a character with some dialogue. That IS the definition of an expansion. But I don't like how they said it was not developed alongside the game when it clearly was. I was torn to shreds on Reddit when I pointed out the same thing a couple weeks ago. [editline]11th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;35100323]And therein the analogy falls apart. The objection to on-disc content that needs to be bought (refuse to call it DLC) isn't that it's stripped out of the game to be re-sold (that is a different demon in and of itself, and something else ME3 does) but that it's actually [I]there[/I], and you're paying to activate it. A closer analogy is that you're paying for the wires that connect them (which works really well considering that both are easily, although not legally in the case of games, rectified)[/QUOTE] Bad Company 2 was the same way. At least it was free. But every expansion it included was just a pre-existing game mode added to pre-existing maps.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35100270]Expansion pack implies that it took time to create[/QUOTE] not really. anyone who's played the old id expansion packs could tell you that's wrong.

[QUOTE=dark_console2;35096897] if you don't like it, don't buy the game, don't buy the DLC but most of all, don't sit around complaining over content, there isn't anything you can do but accept that this is the way things are.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Saza;35097286]good fuck you people are whiny bastards don't like it? don't BUY IT. nobody is forcing you[/QUOTE] I love this argument, it's so dumb. And I just want you to understand how fucking retarded it actually is. People are giving their opinions on something right? They have a right to criticize a product, regardless of buying it or not. But in most cases people are just not going to buy a product they strongly criticize. It's like walking up to two of your friends talking about, lets say pepsi. One of them is like "I don't like pepsi, I think the taste is horrible, and that it has too much sugar", and you walk up and go "hey, don't like pepsi, don't buy it, no one is forcing you". And he'd be like, "......... yeah I was just giving reasons why I'm not going to buy it, the fuck is your point?" And the whole "don't like it don't buy it" is in other words "you can't say out loud what you think about things you dislike, no negative criticism allowed ever, you should ignore everything you don't like, like it wouldn't exist". Why the fuck can't people say out loud negative opinions about something? Because you don't like to listen/read it? Well how the fuck about "don't like it, don't listen/read it" and fuck off. [QUOTE=hexpunK;35099923]I really doubt you'd have a case if you brought this up in any court. Just because something is there doesn't mean you own it when you buy what it normally fits into. (technology - car analogy time) When you buy a car, you get optional extras like a nicer radio, alloys, things that make the car nicer, right? When you buy the base model of the car you don't expect to just be given any of that right? Just because the car would normally have all of that extra crap on it, and the model you buy is probably stripped of that extra stuff, doesn't mean you are entitled to it when you buy it.[/QUOTE] No it would be like buying a car which supposedly doesn't have a radio inside, but when you look, it actually is in there. However it doesn't work because it's missing one cable. If you want to use the radio that's already in the car you've bought you need to pay 100$ for it. And if you replace the missing cable on your own, they take away your entire car because you didn't buy the car, you bought a license to use it on the publisher's terms.

[QUOTE=Legend286;35100270]Expansion pack implies that it took time to create[/QUOTE] Sims: IKEA Pack. Which was, funnily enough, also an EA product.