KKK chapter wants to adopt stretch of Georgia highway - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;36297515]So was Gandhi. But that doesn't mean you should disregard their lessons.[/QUOTE] uhh when it comes to self defense and not being murdered, yeah it does just because they were both murdered doesn't mean every minority should be okay with being martyred for the cause

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297507]no but he sort of failed at the whole "defense" part considering he was fucking assassinated. he [I]died[/I] he was killed by white supremacists you are literally saying black people should have laid down and died like MLK Jr.[/QUOTE] You are literally saying MLK Jr. simply laid down and died. Let's not forget that nonviolent demonstrations were incredibly effective at influencing and changing society.

Yet again, the Black Panthers were PRO-SEGREGATION. They did not go out and hunt whitey. They wanted to get away from whitey and start their own black nation. [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36297523]You are literally saying MLK Jr. simply laid down and died. Let's not forget that nonviolent demonstrations were incredibly effective at influencing and changing society.[/QUOTE] not every fucking black person was MLK Jr. You can't just say everyone should have been okay with dying, you git. You're suggesting that black people should have just let themselves be killed one by one for the cause. That's fucking stupid and racist. [B]IF SOMEONE COMES AT YOU WITH A KNIFE, WHAT DO YOU DO?[/B]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297528] not every fucking black person was MLK Jr. You can't just say everyone should have been okay with dying, you git.[/QUOTE] You can't say that everyone should have been OK with killing.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297483]Historical context is fine when you are studying the motivations and situations that gave rise to certain groups and ideas. However, no amount of "historical context" can wash the blood off someone's hands.[/QUOTE] so you subscribe to a completely non-materialistic worldview in which groups can have metaphorical "blood on their hands". can you effectively argue that you, a white dude in america, do not have blood on your hands when your country of birth was built on exploitation and murder? can i effectively argue that i, a british national, do not have blood on my hands when my wealth and privilege was made possibly by violent conquest? blood on someone's hands is meaningless, because ultimately you won't understand anything, and the fucking point of having debates about it is to share understanding, not to root for what you think is your favourite sports team. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36297483] MLK Jr. and Gandhi should have taught you that.[/QUOTE] both were assassinated. malcolm X was also assassinated and that's key to understanding why the black panthers started carrying shotguns.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297539]You can't say that everyone should have been OK with killing.[/QUOTE] When you're being threatened by a corrupt, racist and murderous system, you can't call them the scum of the fucking earth when they are. Not everyone is a fucking martyr. When someone comes at you with a knife, what do you do? [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;36297542]both were assassinated. malcolm X was also assassinated and that's key to understanding why the black panthers started carrying shotguns.[/QUOTE] and that was [I]after[/I] X started preaching nonviolence. He recanted his previous violent ideology and they [I]still[/I] murdered him. So much for non-fucking-violence.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36297542]so you subscribe to a completely non-materialistic worldview in which groups can have metaphorical "blood on their hands". can you effectively argue that you, a white dude in america, does not have blood on their hands when the country was built on exploitation and murder? can i effectively argue that i, a british national, do not have blood on my hands when my wealth and privilege was made possibly by violent conquest? blood on someone's hands is meaningless, because ultimately you won't understand anything, and the fucking point of having debates about it is to share understanding, not to root for what you think is your favourite sports team.[/QUOTE] Yea, I do have metaphorical blood on my hands. The difference is that I don't try and cover up that blood. I don't try and hide it. I accept that I may have had ancestors who did some rotten things, and my good fortune has been based on the persecution and exploitation of others who were less fortuitous. It isn't a matter of "rooting for your favorite team". It's looking at all these bad things, realizing they are bad, and vowing to yourself to never actively take part in those types of actions yourself. That's what history is meant to teach us.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297564]Yea, I do have metaphorical blood on my hands. The difference is that I don't try and cover up that blood. I don't try and hide it. I accept that I may have had ancestors who did some rotten things, and my good fortune has been based on the persecution and exploitation of others who were less fortuitous. It isn't a matter of "rooting for your favorite team". It's looking at all these bad things, realizing they are bad, and vowing to yourself to never actively take part in those types of actions yourself. That's what history is meant to teach us.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying the Black Panthers were not a controversial group, they were [I]nationalists[/I]. But you can't just go around calling everyone the scum of the fucking earth, saying that reactionary groups like the Black Panthers are the same as the fucking TALIBAN. They [I]aren't[/I], and to imply they are shows you don't know the first god damn thing about the history you're citing.

and haven't we proven the direct systematic link between given role and behavior IE stanford Prison experiment? when you treat a certain people a certain way, you should expect them to adopt that role.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297547] and that was [I]after[/I] X started preaching nonviolence. He recanted his previous violent ideology and they [I]still[/I] murdered him. So much for non-fucking-violence.[/QUOTE] He wasn't killed by "them". He was killed by some Nation of Islam thugs.

I don't see any harm in them owning a highway. It's giving them more publicity for them to deny their right to own it than to just give them the highway.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297575]He wasn't killed by "them". He was killed by some Nation of Islam thugs.[/QUOTE] yes he was killed by the people who taught him nonviolence thats exactly what happened. not like the government lied about that sort of shit during the civil rights movement.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297571]Nobody is saying the Black Panthers were not a controversial group, they were [I]nationalists[/I]. But you can't just go around calling everyone the scum of the fucking earth, saying that reactionary groups like the Black Panthers are the same as the fucking TALIBAN. They [I]aren't[/I], and to imply they are shows you don't know the first god damn thing about the history you're citing.[/QUOTE] History teaches you that everyone thinks they are justified in their violence. Just because YOU think they are justified doesn't justify them in any objective fashion. So unless you simply want to count bodies to figure out who was worse(which is a futile and depressing way to look at it), you can simply say that the people who engaged in violence were horrible people. [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36297585]yes he was killed by the people who taught him nonviolence thats exactly what happened. not like the government lied about that sort of shit during the civil rights movement.[/QUOTE] [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297564]Yea, I do have metaphorical blood on my hands. The difference is that I don't try and cover up that blood. I don't try and hide it. I accept that I may have had ancestors who did some rotten things, and my good fortune has been based on the persecution and exploitation of others who were less fortuitous.[/QUOTE] except no-one is covering up blood?? you missed the point of what i said. we all have blood on our hands and i can assure you we're aware of that, therefor it's pointless to argue based on that notion. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36297564]It isn't a matter of "rooting for your favorite team". It's looking at all these bad things, realizing they are bad, and vowing to yourself to never actively take part in those types of actions yourself. [/QUOTE] you can't make that choice in the circumstance you are in. it's easy to say "i wouldn't act that way" when you aren't forced or placed towards acting that way. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36297564]That's what history is meant to teach us.[/QUOTE] history isn't meant to teach anything, it takes a good deal of work in order to understand it and it would be impossible to vow yourself to anything when you don't fully understand it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297588]History teaches you that everyone thinks they are justified in their violence. Just because YOU think they are justified doesn't justify them in any objective fashion. [B]So unless you simply want to count bodies to figure out who was worse(which is a futile and depressing way to look at it), you can simply say that the people who engaged in violence were horrible people.[/B] [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one.[/QUOTE] i.e. rather than any critical thinking with serious analysis and comparison, you can call everyone equally terrible and call it a day

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297588] "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."[/QUOTE] Since you enjoy Wikipedia so much: "On February 21, 1965, as Malcolm X prepared to address the Organization of Afro-American Unity in Manhattan's Audubon Ballroom, [I]a disturbance broke out in the 400-person audience[160]—a man yelled, "Nigger! Get your hand outta my pocket!"[161][162][/I] As Malcolm X and his bodyguards moved to quiet the disturbance,[163] a man seated in the front row rushed forward and shot him once in the chest with a double-barreled sawed-off shotgun.[164] Two other men charged the stage and fired semi-automatic handguns, hitting Malcolm X several times.[162] He was pronounced dead at 3:30 pm, shortly after he arrived at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital.[160] According to the autopsy report, Malcolm X's body had 21 gunshot wounds to his chest, left shoulder, and both arms and legs, many of them fatal; ten of the wounds were buckshot to his left chest and shoulder from the initial shotgun blast.[165]" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X#Assassination[/url] So what you're saying is that someone called X a nigger, so the nation of islam took that as their cue to kill Malcolm X, one of their most prolific figureheads, and then maintain their innocence for the rest of their lives. [quote]So unless you simply want to count bodies to figure out who was worse(which is a futile and depressing way to look at it), you can simply say that the people who engaged in violence were horrible people.[/quote] False dichotomy. The world is not black and white. It is not that god damn simple. You're literally saying you're too lazy to examine the situation and it's easier to call everyone evil.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36297603]i.e. rather than any critical thinking with serious analysis and comparison, you can call everyone equally terrible and call it a day[/QUOTE] Actually, yea. It's simpler, less meaningless, and more moral to do it that way.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297616]Actually, yea. It's simpler, less meaningless, and more moral to do it that way.[/QUOTE] Uhh how the fuck is oversimplifying and generalizing the world more moral thats sort of how racism happens [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] stop being a fucking nihilist

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297610]Since you enjoy Wikipedia so much: "On February 21, 1965, as Malcolm X prepared to address the Organization of Afro-American Unity in Manhattan's Audubon Ballroom, [I]a disturbance broke out in the 400-person audience[160]—a man yelled, "Nigger! Get your hand outta my pocket!"[161][162][/I] As Malcolm X and his bodyguards moved to quiet the disturbance,[163] a man seated in the front row rushed forward and shot him once in the chest with a double-barreled sawed-off shotgun.[164] Two other men charged the stage and fired semi-automatic handguns, hitting Malcolm X several times.[162] He was pronounced dead at 3:30 pm, shortly after he arrived at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital.[160] According to the autopsy report, Malcolm X's body had 21 gunshot wounds to his chest, left shoulder, and both arms and legs, many of them fatal; ten of the wounds were buckshot to his left chest and shoulder from the initial shotgun blast.[165]" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X#Assassination[/url] So what you're saying is that someone called X a nigger, so the nation of islam took that as their cue to kill Malcolm X, one of their most prolific figureheads, and then maintain their innocence for the rest of their lives.[/quote] They saw him, so they acted. Unless you got some real evidence to back a conspiracy claim, and not just wild guessing, it is more logical to assume it was some people from the Nation of Islam.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297616]Actually, yea. It's simpler, less meaningless, and more moral to do it that way.[/QUOTE] simpler isn't a good thing less meaningless? how moral? lmao

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297639]They saw him, so they acted. Unless you got some real evidence to back a conspiracy claim, and not just wild guessing, it is more logical to assume it was some people from the Nation of Islam.[/QUOTE] The fact that all of the gunmen were paroled and maintained their innocence sort of says something. How the fuck do you think it makes sense that the people who taught Malcolm X about nonviolence heard someone else call him a nigger and decided to shoot X 21 times? This is not something you can simplify to make it easier. You do realize what would have happened if it were reported that Malcolm X was killed by white supremacists, right? Race riots the likes of which the US had never seen.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297618]Uhh how the fuck is oversimplifying and generalizing the world more moral thats sort of how racism happens [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] stop being a fucking nihilist[/QUOTE] Actually it's the way to fight against genocidal attitudes. Who are you to say that the blacks who were killed suffered more than the jews in the holocaust or vice versa? Who are you to say whether 11 million dead is worse or better than centuries of subjugation and exploitation of a race? When you start saying that certain acts of violence are better or worse than other acts of violence, you justify them in some way. You allow for the justification of later acts of violence, and perpetuate an attitude of "well my suffering was worse than yours so I have a reason to act this way!"

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297659]Actually it's the way to fight against genocidal attitudes. Who are you to say that the blacks who were killed suffered more than the jews in the holocaust or vice versa? Who are you to say whether 11 million dead is worse or better than centuries of subjugation and exploitation of a race? When you start saying that certain acts of violence are better or worse than other acts of violence, you justify them in some way. You allow for the justification of later acts of violence, and perpetuate an attitude of "well my suffering was worse than yours so I have a reason to act this way!"[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about? When the fuck did I say any of that? You said the Black Panthers were the scum of the earth and exactly the same as the KKK. I said you're wrong. Why the fuck are you talking about jews all of a sudden? Are you high?

Once you realize that violence is violence, then violent individuals are just violent individuals, distinguishable only by the environment that allowed them to commit acts of violence.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297670]Once you realize that violence is violence, then violent individuals are just violent individuals, distinguishable only by the environment that allowed them to commit acts of violence.[/QUOTE] Someone comes at you with a knife. What do you do?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36297655]The fact that all of the gunmen were paroled and maintained their innocence sort of says something. How the fuck do you think it makes sense that the people who taught Malcolm X about nonviolence heard someone else call him a nigger and decided to shoot X 21 times? This is not something you can simplify to make it easier. You do realize what would have happened if it were reported that Malcolm X was killed by white supremacists, right? Race riots the likes of which the US had never seen.[/QUOTE] This is all just guessing with no evidence to support it. I said bring evidence, you bring wild hypotheticals. I'm done with this train of thought. [editline]12th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36297679]Someone comes at you with a knife. What do you do?[/QUOTE] Stop saying that. It's wholly irrelevant to the situation.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36297670]Once you realize that violence is violence, then violent individuals are just violent individuals, distinguishable only by the environment that allowed them to commit acts of violence.[/QUOTE] so by this logic, a holocaust victim who kills a nazi guard to escape is just as bad as the nazis who imprisoned him, because they're both violent and they're both killers you're a joke

Also, as Spain mentioned: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment[/url] The world is not that god damn simple.

answer the knife question, ghandi

Wow I'm dumb. I just replied to a post on the first page.