People crying because no women presented during the Sony announcement - Polidicks

[QUOTE=dass;39672587]lol what nobody is excluding women, mainly because nobody cares (or should care) whatever you call someone its beyond me why would anyone even want to be called a gamer, does it gives one extra points?[/QUOTE] you all are arguing about what a "gamer" is when a. it doesn't fucking matter and b. you're using arbitrary criteria to exclude "casual" women game players from being gamers as a roundabout way to make sure women aren't gamers.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672601]what are you even arguing for about anymore[/QUOTE] I should ask you. You were the one who quoted this [QUOTE=dass;39670202]Not our fault at most. Girls I know don't usually like videogames at all and call it for nerds.[/QUOTE] along with some statistics that for whatever reason you seem to think they apply to the people I know...

[QUOTE=dass;39672610] A graphic apparently knows more than I do about my friends and their friends who constantly shoo away gamers for being neck-deep in games.[/QUOTE] really we're gonna start dismissing statistics while shelling out some haterade for women who don't like games i need a cigarette

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672645]really we're gonna start dismissing statistics while shelling out some haterade for women who don't like games i need a cigarette[/QUOTE] statistics are for suckers. my anecdotes trump that lame pseudo-science bullshit.

[QUOTE=Ziron;39672628]you all are arguing about what a "gamer" is when a. it doesn't fucking matter and b. you're using arbitrary criteria to exclude "casual" women game players from being gamers as a roundabout way to make sure women aren't gamers.[/QUOTE] or c: you're just making assumptions because "he dont want gurls to be gamerz!!!11!" when in fact, I haven't said a word about women being or not being gamers until that comment, and just gave the actual definition of a gamer, which applies to both male or female.

[QUOTE=dass;39672660]or c: you're just making assumptions because "he dont want gurls to be gamerz!!!11!" when in fact, I haven't said a word about women being or not being gamers until that comment, and just gave the actual definition of a gamer, which applies to both male or female.[/QUOTE] why do i feel a loose connection between you being banned multiple times for racism and stating your stupid views concerning computer games and people grow up

~99% of teens are photographers because they take snaps of them and their mates at parties~ Seriously though Zirion, by acknowledging that narrowing the definition of gamer excludes more women than men from the label, you're also acknowledging that considerably less women game as much and as seriously as men, which i'm sure you're trying to argue against And narrowing the definition of gaming from accepting anyone who's ever played a game isn't having a jab at women at all (it's just common sense). For all we know doing that could exclude more men from being gamers than women, and if you think that's not the case you're making assumptions that women's interest in games is considerably less than the statistics posted earlier show, which again i'm sure you're arguing against also I have fever and haven't slept for two nights so excuse me if I don't make sense

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672645]really we're gonna start dismissing statistics while shelling out some haterade for women who don't like games i need a cigarette[/QUOTE] Do show me then statistics showing how many men and how many women are developers, and while you're at it, show me also statistics of how many women get into something like game developing, which was the reason why I brought that up, because of someone's comment on how there aren't many female programmers due to social stigma and so on.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;39672696]MMOs have an almost equal female base? Pfft-ahahhahahaha hell fucking no, 95% of the people you'll ever meet that play MMOs are dudes, and most of those dudes are creepers that harass women every chance they get.[/QUOTE] that's cool dude i'm not partial to like crazy and obviously made up bullshit, so if you have any statistics to prove anything you say i'd be happy to see it [QUOTE=Atlascore;39672696]The Wii sold so much because it was dirt cheap and made by Nintendo, which happens to have a gigantic fanbase that's existed since the 80's, Mario is a cultural icon, it has nothing to do with gender.[/QUOTE] ok what does that have to do with the fact that the userbase for the wii is more gender-equal???

[QUOTE=RobbL;39672693]~99% of teens are photographers because they take snaps of them and their mates at parties~ Seriously though Zirion, by acknowledging that narrowing the definition of gamer excludes more women than men from the label, you're also acknowledging that considerably less women game as much and as seriously as men, which i'm sure you're trying to argue against And narrowing the definition of gaming from accepting anyone who's ever played a game isn't having a jab at women at all (it's just common sense). For all we know doing that could exclude more men from being gamers than women, and if you think that's not the case you're making assumptions that women's interest in games is considerably less the statistics posted earlier show, which again i'm sure you're arguing against also I have fever and haven't slept for two nights so excuse me if I don't make sense[/QUOTE] the thing is I dont give a fuck how much girls play games compared to guys. they play video games and are a large part of game players. that should be cause to stand up and start changing the sexist attitudes you see in gamers. bitching about what a "gamer" is (which of course, is designed to exclude "casual" women players) is perpetuating the problem we should be attacking.

[QUOTE=dass;39672701]Do show me then statistics showing how many men and how many women are developers, and while you're at it, show me also statistics of how many women get into something like game developing, which was the reason why I brought that up, because of someone's comment on how there aren't many female programmers due to social stigma and so on.[/QUOTE] [quote]The effects of this frat boy culture are captured in glaring industry statistics: Women account for only 11 percent of game designers and 3 percent of programmers, strikingly low even when compared with the broader fields of graphic design and technology, where women make up about 60 percent and 25 percent of employment respectively, according to surveys. Also, women video game programmers earn an average of $10,000 a year less than their male counterparts, according to a salary survey published in 2011 by Gamer Developer magazine, and women designers make $12,000 less.[/quote]

What's wrong with thinking considerably less women are 'gamers' than men anyway? Surely that just proves that certain attitudes, in the games industry and in society in as a whole, must be putting women off properly getting into video games and the gaming industry, and that something needs to be done about all that?

the fact that they earn 10k less than their male counterparts is a serious barrier for women to get into development, as anyone who's involved in the arts will know you go where the pay is so you don't have to live off of ramen anymore haha

eww i dont like GIRLS in my workplace cause they got the COOTIES

[QUOTE=Ziron;39672744]bitching about what a "gamer" is (which of course, is designed to exclude "casual" women players) is perpetuating the problem we should be attacking.[/QUOTE] No it's just excluding casual players, you're just construing it that way The definition of gamer can't bias against one gender or another

I know a guy who has a PC with a nvidia card, shitloads of RAM, and a huge monitor. All he does is play solitaire. Does that classify him as a gamer?

[QUOTE=RobbL;39672758]What's wrong with thinking considerably less women are 'gamers' than men anyway? Surely that just proves that certain attitudes, in the games industry and in society in as a whole, must be putting women off properly getting into video games and the gaming industry, and that something needs to be done about all that?[/QUOTE] the point is we don't need cutesy bullshit criteria to prove what a "gamer" is. a gamer plays video games. how hard is that to comprehend? trying to make gaming into an "us vs them" situation by defining what a gamer is polarizes game players for no reason except to keep the "undesirables" (like women and jocks) out of your hobby when they shouldn't be.

And that should tell us why there are so much more male developers compared to female, which SHOULD say why exactly would be there more presenters talking about their games. Or so I think! I might be wrong...

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672765]the fact that they earn 10k less than their male counterparts is a serious barrier for women to get into development, as anyone who's involved in the arts will know you go where the pay is so you don't have to live off of ramen anymore haha[/QUOTE] uh 1. ur sexist for pointing out the pay difference 2. maybe they just don't want to be paid as much????? [editline]21st February 2013[/editline] fuckin owned

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672711]that's cool dude i'm not partial to like crazy and obviously made up bullshit, so if you have any statistics to prove anything you say i'd be happy to see it ok what does that have to do with the fact that the userbase for the wii is more gender-equal???[/QUOTE] Well, I'd expect the price of the wii to gather more attention from different playerbases along with the choice of games it has... And I think it's common knowledge that there are waaaay more guys in mmos than girls. Depends on the game though.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672476]in the context that the word was used it was obvious what he meant stop being pedantic [url=http://www.geekquality.com/average-gamer-myth/][img]http://www.geekquality.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Gender-1024x479.png[/img][/url][/QUOTE] So where are the statistics here? I see no source, I see no research conducted. I see a graph that has randomly chosen percentages with male and female written on it and then we're told to believe it.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;39672843]You haven't posted any statistics related to MMOs, you've only posted a single vague graph, I'm assuming you've never actually played an MMO[/QUOTE] nope never played an mmo, especially not one where im a level 90 hunter with an ilvl of 468 (ladies...) [url]http://vhil.stanford.edu/pubs/2006/yee-demographics.pdf[/url] stanford paper [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7796482.stm[/url] bbc from 2008 reports 40% and i can only imagine it having gone up

[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;39672890]So where are the statistics here? I see no source, I see no research conducted. I see a graph that has randomly chosen percentages with male and female written on it and then we're told to believe it.[/QUOTE] i fucked up the url, its supposed to be CLICKABLE! [url]http://www.geekquality.com/average-gamer-myth/[/url]

[QUOTE=Ziron;39672744]the thing is I dont give a fuck how much girls play games compared to guys. they play video games and are a large part of game players. that should be cause to stand up and start changing the sexist attitudes you see in gamers. bitching about what a "gamer" is (which of course, is designed to exclude "casual" women players) is perpetuating the problem we should be attacking.[/QUOTE] Nobody should care about them being gamers or not, and it isn't designed to exclude casual women players. What's with that feeling of persecution?... I bet those statistics include women who played like a whole month and then got tired of it and never grabbed any game again.

[QUOTE=dass;39672912] I bet those statistics include women who played like a whole month and then got tired of it and never grabbed any game again.[/QUOTE] yse because there are no men that would do the same thing. its only those damn women that do that.

[QUOTE=Yahnich;39672903]for all your honeyed words you keep baffling me with how big of a nerde you are (ilu)[/QUOTE] im watching 30 rock while eating vegetarian sushi and thinking about all the WoW dallies i'm not doing! [editline]21st February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=dass;39672912] I bet those statistics include women who played like a whole month and then got tired of it and never grabbed any game again.[/QUOTE] this is what i get for talking to a guy who got banned for genocidal racism i mean my banlog is bad, but at least i'm completely innocent on the genocidal racism part

[QUOTE=Ziron;39672923]yse because there are no men that would do the same thing. its only those damn women that do that.[/QUOTE] Who knows? It might be right, or it might be wrong!

[QUOTE=thisispain;39672926] this is what i get for talking to a guy who got banned for genocidal racism i mean my banlog is bad, but at least i'm completely innocent on the genocidal racism part[/QUOTE] Because FP has the best moderators on the planet that don't ban people without a good reason to do so and are never ever wrong right? I could actually be racist instead of people misunderstanding my words (no such thing! for people like thisispain, its time to cover ears while yelling racist!) that my banlog and my attitude wouldn't be nearly as bad as yours. And awesome offtopic by the way.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;39672976]Both of those statistics are ancient, the first is talking about Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies, EQ has an almost non-existent user base now and SWG got shut down. The BBC link is talking about Everquest 2, which again has a small userbase. None of this is an accurate depiction of MMO gender populations, not only is it out dated but neither of them have anything to do with World of Warcraft or other huge MMOs that hold the majority of MMO players, each game has a different user base I bet if you did a survey for WoW the gender population would be far more imbalanced.[/QUOTE] it's the best i can do unfortunately [editline]21st February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=dass;39672996] I could actually be racist instead of people misunderstanding my words (no such thing! for people like thisispain, its time to cover ears while yelling racist!) that my banlog and my attitude wouldn't be nearly as bad as yours.[/QUOTE] eh everyone has pros and cons

If people are arguing that women don't represent 47% of whatever they consider to be a gamer, then that only strengthens the argument that there needs to be significant change in the industry. If the games industry is comparable in scope to the film industry (or at least Hollywood), then it has a huge opportunity (some would say responsibility) to broaden its gaze to that other couple of billion people who would be happily obliging customers if there wasn't such a concerted effort to keep them excluded.