• Boy Scouts of America committee votes unanimously to retain gay ban
    88 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Loriborn;36815956]Boy Scouts have always been incredibly morally Christian[/QUOTE] actually boy scouts are owned by mormons edit: ok im late
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;36816001]wth since when were atheist and agnostics banned? i wasnt openly atheist but i didn't believe in god when i was in it. iirc the book is like "under god(or other spiritual figure)" yeah, they accept other religions, but not no religion[/QUOTE] The main concepts of scouting are to serve your God, your country, and your neighbor. They decided that if you are atheist, you can't be a scout because you can't follow those concepts. Most troop leaders don't give a shit though. That's from my own experience anyways.
I found an eagle scout bandana in a parking lot the other day. Now I keep it tied around my belt loop whenever I go out. If people ask if I'm a boyscout, I ask why they would think that. They point to the bandana, say only eagle scouts have those bandanas. I say "maybe I killed an eagle scout and stole it". They reply "Nobody can kill an eagle scout" I wish that were true
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36819532]That's odd, my old troop had several openly gay members. The troop was atheist, too.[/QUOTE] Probably because nobody cared to complain about it to the higher-ups. It's very easy for a troop to bypass the policy completely. Still amazing that the BSA can be so far behind other Scouting organizations. For example, from the Scouts Canada webpage: [quote][U]Does Scouts Canada Admit Both Boys and Girls? [/U] Yes, Scouts Canada became completely co-ed in 1998. [U]Do You Have to Believe in God to Join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian Organization? [/U] No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. Spirituality has been one of the three main principles of Scouting around the world since its inception more than 100 years ago. Scouts Canada is proud of its commitment to diversity and welcomes members of many different faiths and denominations. You need not belong to an organized religion, but all members must take the Scout Promise in good faith and leaders may include some form of spirituality in their program for the youth. “God” represents spirituality and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean an expression of your personal spirituality. "Duty to God" as defined by the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, means "a person's relationship with the spiritual values of life, the fundamental belief in a force above mankind." [U]Are Homosexuals Allowed to Join Scouts Canada? [/U] Scouts Canada does not discriminate for reasons of gender, culture, religious belief or sexual orientation.[/quote] Only thing really questionable there is the religion thing, and even then it's clear it's been watered down to let anybody in.
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;36819667]Probably because nobody cared to complain about it to the higher-ups. It's very easy for a troop to bypass the policy completely. Still amazing that the BSA can be so far behind other Scouting organizations. For example, from the Scouts Canada webpage: Only thing really questionable there is the religion thing, and even then it's clear it's been watered down to let anybody in.[/QUOTE] Holy fucking shit America is behind other western nations in modernity and secularization?
When I was in scouts I remember watching the sexual harassment video where the kid's grandpa got the kid to help him paint a shed. He got paint on the kid's pants on purpose and made him take off his pants [img]http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9229/lolpedo3pi0.jpg[/img]
That thread has earned its place among the best threads of the forum.
As an Eagle scout I have to say this is bull shit, the people at national level are going against their own messages by refusing gay members. Most troops have no problems with allowing gay members/leaders, why not let each troop decide individually? Before everyone jumps on the hate boy scouting band wagon, talk to some of your local groups. There are a lot of troops that like my old troop believe this is ridiculous, really it is at the national level where funding/politics come in to play that you find this much ignorance.
[QUOTE=CottonTM;36819951]When I was in scouts I remember watching the sexual harassment video where the kid's grandpa got the kid to help him paint a shed. He got paint on the kid's pants on purpose and made him take off his pants [img]http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9229/lolpedo3pi0.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] [video=youtube;Fj4ak2WpLFM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj4ak2WpLFM[/video] You reminded me of this.
Fine then, I'll just start my own boyscouts with blackjack and hookers. And the gays will be worshipped as some kind of God.
Its funny because there was quite a bit of evidence to suggest the founder of the scout movement had an erotic interest in men.
Yeah. It's easy for the individual troops to just glaze over the stupid details like that, hell I'm an Eagle Scout and I'm [sp]straight[/sp], and my best friend from that troop, also an Eagle, is atheist. As for the sexual harassment argument, it's bunk. All adults with scouts are supposed to read the 'how to not accidentally molest children' primer, regardless of sexuality or gender.
Check out all the hypocrisy in this thread. Your best and most "up-to-date" moral values will stop you from shaking hands with a gay person, and won't stop that "backstab-chatting" and gossip. Let's get real now. Imho: No matter how you see it, a gay remains a gay, and from a family man's/woman's point of view, still a threat to their children. No parent wants to see a child growing up into a gay person, after social and personal pressure from media outlets and gay propaganda. The old saying: "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't provide the necessary background for toleration, from a moral point of view.
[QUOTE=irukandji;36821695]Check out all the hypocrisy in this thread. Your best and most "up-to-date" moral values will stop you from shaking hands with a gay person, and won't stop that "backstab-chatting" and gossip. Let's get real now. Imho: No matter how you see it, a gay remains a gay, and from a family man's/woman's point of view, still a threat to their children. No parent wants to see a child growing up into a gay person, after social and personal pressure from media outlets and gay propaganda. The old saying: "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't provide the necessary background for toleration, from a moral point of view.[/QUOTE] How are gays a threat to children precisely? Do tell us with your vast knowledge of homosexual relationships. The only 'threat' that exists in this thread is the homophobic culture that BSA are advocating.
[QUOTE=irukandji;36821695]Check out all the hypocrisy in this thread. Your best and most "up-to-date" moral values will stop you from shaking hands with a gay person, and won't stop that "backstab-chatting" and gossip. Let's get real now. Imho: No matter how you see it, a gay remains a gay, and from a family man's/woman's point of view, still a threat to their children. No parent wants to see a child growing up into a gay person, after social and personal pressure from media outlets and gay propaganda. The old saying: "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't provide the necessary background for toleration, from a moral point of view.[/QUOTE] You don't grow up into a gay person. You either are or aren't. Homosexuality isn't some magical memetic disease that spreads through special gay propaganda wavelengths.
While this does disappoint me, it doesn't surprise me. Almost every single Eagle Scout I knew in high school was also a Mormon from a rather conservative (I've never met a Mormom that wasn't conservative while still identifying as one) family. Except this one kid that was in a bad punk band and dressed like the 90's, but I think he legitimately liked helping people and doing things for the community instead of getting a pat on the head.
[QUOTE=irukandji;36821695]Check out all the hypocrisy in this thread.[/QUOTE]Really? Where at? Maybe you could show me on a roadmap. [QUOTE]Your best and most "up-to-date" moral values will stop you from shaking hands with a gay person, and won't stop that "backstab-chatting" and gossip.[/QUOTE]What? [QUOTE]Let's get real now.[/QUOTE] Ohh? Ok. I love reality! Ohh, wait, we're not actually going to be visiting that realm, are we? [QUOTE]Imho:[/QUOTE]In your uninformed opinion: [QUOTE]No matter how you see it, a gay remains a gay, and from a family man's/woman's point of view, still a threat to their children.[/QUOTE]And an idiot remains an idiot. To get serious though for a minute, it has been shown, conclusively, that a homosexual is no more likely to sexually assault a child than a heterosexual. [QUOTE]No parent wants to see a child growing up into a gay person, after social and personal pressure from media outlets and gay propaganda.[/QUOTE]Maybe no parent would if they have a marshmallow for a brain. Otherwise, any decent parent will accept their child. Also, gay propaganda? I think we need to get the roadmap out again so you can point that out to me. [QUOTE]The old saying: "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't provide the necessary background for toleration, from a moral point of view.[/QUOTE]I say again: What? Seriously, what are you actually trying to say?
If a private organization wants their own rules- let them/ its not like its hurting you at all. What, your going to "make" them substitute their beliefs for yours? And you would do this how exactly? As far as i know they were banned from gov funding the last time this issue came up (several years ago)- if im wrong and they do receive funding pls post sources
That's funny because they're boy scouts.
But Boy Scouts are just about the gayest thing ever.
[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;36822602]If a private organization wants their own rules- let them/ its not like its hurting you at all. What, your going to "make" them substitute their beliefs for yours? And you would do this how exactly? As far as i know they were banned from gov funding the last time this issue came up (several years ago)- if im wrong and they do receive funding pls post sources[/QUOTE] There's a massive difference between holding beliefs, and excluding someone on those beliefs. One is homophobic, the other is a personal preference.
[QUOTE=Alex Rider;36823042]There's a massive difference between holding beliefs, and excluding someone on those beliefs. One is homophobic, the other is a personal preference.[/QUOTE] Lets make this easy and say it is homophobic of them. And this changes what exactly? If a private organization wants to hold such beliefs, A/ how is it hurting you, B/ what can you do about it anyway
Aren't cafes private organizations too? Why aren't they allowed to discriminate against blacks and any other group of people? This is complete bullshit.
Yeah, you can't just disregard discrimination laws and policies because you don't 'believe' in them.
i know a ton of eagle scouts (highest rank) and they all think this is fucking stupid most of the people don't believe in this bullshit and just like scouting [QUOTE=smurfy;36816016]I know fuck all about scouts so I did some googling, the scouts here attend gay pride events apparently Edit: 'here' = the UK[/QUOTE] the BSoA are different, you guys are co-ed, we've got boys/girl scouts [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=H8Entitlement;36823093]Lets make this easy and say it is homophobic of them. And this changes what exactly? If a private organization wants to hold such beliefs, A/ how is it hurting you, B/ what can you do about it anyway[/QUOTE] you could make the argument that the boy & girl scouts need to obey the CRA of 1964 because they can be considered "public accommodations" - the organization is there to teach people how to survive in the wild - and is generally considered the only organization to do so. if these people want to learn these skills in a public setting, they have no other recourse
[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;36823093]Lets make this easy and say it is homophobic of them. And this changes what exactly? If a private organization wants to hold such beliefs, A/ how is it hurting you, B/ what can you do about it anyway[/QUOTE] Many 'private organisations' held such beliefs in the past. And people challenged them. And in some cases, changed them. Just because no such change has happened yet, it does not mean that it is considered 'acceptable' in our modern society. I understand well enough that you want to play the 'their house, their rules' card, but it doesn't change the fact that, regardless of how you dress it up, discrimination is discrimination. So without using the above, tell me how exactly is that acceptable in our current society, where someone is discriminated against an organisation that should know alot better simply for being LGBT? Perhaps one should read the Scout Law? [quote]A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.[/quote]
reverent means "god-fearing", but a lot of scouts re-purposed it to mean reverent to the environment
As a UK Scout, this is bullshit. When I was a scout we helped out at a Gay Pride event and all sorts. It's Pathetic, Scouts is about teaching you how to grow up, life skills which are actually useful, teamwork, fire-making, and working in a community. "AHHH A GAY, STAY AWAY" isn't any of this. It's pathetic and disgusting.
As an Ex-Scout and maybe a soon to be Venturing Scout, this shit's fucked up. [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Alex Rider;36823278]Many 'private organisations' held such beliefs in the past. And people challenged them. And in some cases, changed them. Just because no such change has happened yet, it does not mean that it is considered 'acceptable' in our modern society. I understand well enough that you want to play the 'their house, their rules' card, but it doesn't change the fact that, regardless of how you dress it up, discrimination is discrimination. So without using the above, tell me how exactly is that acceptable in our current society, where someone is discriminated against an organisation that should know alot better simply for being LGBT? Perhaps one should read the Scout Law?[/QUOTE] [Quote]A Scout IS Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Frendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent.[/quote] FTFY [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=BrickInHead;36823125]i know a ton of eagle scouts (highest rank) and they all think this is fucking stupid most of the people don't believe in this bullshit and just like scouting the BSoA are different, you guys are co-ed, we've got boys/girl scouts [/QUOTE] The BSA supports Venturing Crews which are Co-ed btw
[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;36823093]Lets make this easy and say it is homophobic of them. And this changes what exactly? If a private organization wants to hold such beliefs, [B]A/ how is it hurting you, B/ what can you do about it anyway[/B][/QUOTE] Well gee, maybe A: These kinds of beliefs teach people to treat homosexuals like they are diseased and need to be quarantined from the good old boys and girls of faith or else they might spread the gay. B: Educate people on what homosexuality really is and not just completely ignore it as if doing so would make it go away.
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