• ‘20 minutes of action’: father defends Stanford student son convicted of sexual assault
    67 replies, posted
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50473897]Finally someone who gets it. Most parents will not abandon their kids even if they commit serious crimes. It's a biological thing. His biological empathy for his son overrides empathy he might have for the victim. Hell, I can imagine that if you find out your kid did a crime, you'd help them not get caught any way you could.[/QUOTE] It's not a biological thing. Being a parent normally forms a deep psychological bond to the child, which leads to them putting emotion before reason.
Jesus some of you people have absolutely no idea of how parental psychology works. In your minds youre disgusted that he didn't put his son on a burning stake but what do you fucking expect. Of course hes gonna defend his child. Im not saying that what the kid did wasnt wrong and disgusting but dont crucify the parent for doing the instinctive thing. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;50473985]These are human beings, not dogs. If "biological" empathy overrides your ability to reason you are [I]quite literally[/I] an idiot as in possessed of diminished mental capacity, and should probably not have children to begin with.[/QUOTE] This is a frightening mentality in the first place and secondly, you cant fight off thousands of years of instinct that has evolved with us when a parent is put in a situation like this
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50474233]It's not a biological thing. Being a parent normally forms a deep psychological bond to the child, which leads to them putting emotion before reason.[/QUOTE] Need to protect and keep your offspring from harm is biological in a lot of species, humans too. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;50473985]These are human beings, not dogs. If "biological" empathy overrides your ability to reason you are [I]quite literally[/I] an idiot as in possessed of diminished mental capacity, and should probably not have children to begin with.[/QUOTE] There are far bigger reasons why quite a lot of people shouldn't have children but none of them prevent them from doing so anyway. You need to calm down.
I'm not mad at all, your premise :quotes: is hilariously askew at LEAST. This is not a fight or flight situation, this is not a pack sabertoofed tigers waiting outside somebody's house with pitchforks and flamethrowers wearing welding masks. This is a "reasoned" measured pre-spun and exactingly diction-ed response to incoming judical, as in trial, as in lengthy deliberation, an in TRIAL, spankeration due to RAPE. Rape. This is what we in the content creation biz call "some ol' bullshit", mostly because it is. This is something you cannot spin out of the context, no matter the craft level of your word smithing, and to attempt to do so this brazenly is terrible. horrible. crappy. Pick an adjective.
[QUOTE=27X;50474351]I'm not mad at all, your premise :quotes: is hilariously askew at LEAST. This is not a fight or flight situation, this is not a pack sabertoofed tigers waiting outside somebody's house with pitchforks and flamethrowers wearing welding masks. This is a "reasoned" measured pre-spun and exactingly diction-ed response to incoming judical, as in trial, as in lengthy deliberation, an in TRIAL, spankeration due to RAPE. Rape. This is what we in the content creation biz call "some ol' bullshit", mostly because it is. This is something you cannot spin out of the context, no matter the craft level of your word smithing, and to attempt to do so this brazenly is terrible. horrible. crappy. Pick an adjective.[/QUOTE] Your "crafty" words make you lose any sense your comment might've had
[QUOTE=27X;50474351]I'm not mad at all, your premise :quotes: is hilariously askew at LEAST. This is not a fight or flight situation, this is not a pack sabertoofed tigers waiting outside somebody's house with pitchforks and flamethrowers wearing welding masks. This is a "reasoned" measured pre-spun and exactingly diction-ed response to incoming judical, as in trial, as in lengthy deliberation, an in TRIAL, spankeration due to RAPE. Rape. This is what we in the content creation biz call "some ol' bullshit", mostly because it is. This is something you cannot spin out of the context, no matter the craft level of your word smithing, and to attempt to do so this brazenly is terrible. horrible. crappy. Pick an adjective.[/QUOTE] I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get across in this reply.
[QUOTE=soccerskyman;50474661]I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get across in this reply.[/QUOTE] "He [I]FUCKING RAPED SOMEOBODY[/I] and the judicial system has pre-determined methods of dealing with [I]RAPISTS[/I] and no amount of sugar-coating it makes what he did any less [I]DISGUSTING[/I], nor should it [I]EXCUSE HIM FROM PROPER RECOURSE[/I]." At least that's what I get from it.
I can't blame the father. The alternative is coming to terms with the fact that your kid is a rapist, which must be hard. But then again, the kid is without a doubt a rapist, and y'know, there aren't any excuses for that.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50473897]Finally someone who gets it. Most parents will not abandon their kids even if they commit serious crimes. It's a biological thing. His biological empathy for his son overrides empathy he might have for the victim. Hell, I can imagine that if you find out your kid did a crime, you'd help them not get caught any way you could.[/QUOTE] i'm sorry but if i were a parent i'd like for my children not to be pieces of shit in fact, some dumb cunt burglar and general asshole around where i live, who has burgled several houses including ours, as well as stolen bikes, cars and whatnot, when he tried to steal another bike the owner saw it and went after him with his car. he cycled in a ditch and the car crushed him. end of story for the asshole what did his mother say? 'im glad he's dead'
I'm so fucking glad that the reactions in this thread is actually reasonable. On many other sites, people are furious that that judge only gave him 6 months, are are asking for witch hunts with little to no information about it. Hell, there's sometimes more outrage over the judge than the father and the son combined.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50474289]Need to protect and keep your offspring from harm is biological in a lot of species, humans too.[/QUOTE] That could be a whole argument of its own. Do animals protect their offspring after they've grown up? No, unless they're social creatures, which falls under psychology. What we and other animals have in common is nurturing instinct, which would explain why animals protect their young. However that doesn't require a biological bond. Animals can adopt other animals, even of other species, and protect them as their own. We express our nurturing instinct mostly by keeping pets. So, my theory is there is no biological bond. Nurturing instinct keeps us attached to our offspring, social bonding and cultural norms take care of the rest.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;50475586]I can't blame the father. The alternative is coming to terms with the fact that your kid is a rapist, which must be hard. But then again, the kid is without a doubt a rapist, and y'know, there aren't any excuses for that.[/QUOTE] this, the ruling seemed okay, although i would have liked to see far more emphasis on rehabilitation. [sarcasm]Then again this is MURRICA, fry the fucker amirite?[/sarcasm] [QUOTE=Talishmar;50476687]That could be a whole argument of its own. Do animals protect their offspring after they've grown up? No, unless they're social creatures, which falls under psychology. [/QUOTE] You are compounding 2 totally different things and mixing up other things. Psychology falls under biology in this case. No social brain chemistry no social behaviour.
[QUOTE=27X;50473985]These are human beings, not dogs. If "biological" empathy overrides your ability to reason you are [I]quite literally[/I] an idiot as in possessed of diminished mental capacity, and should probably not have children to begin with.[/QUOTE] For all we know biology and psychology is as connected as psychology and enviroment, you don't seem to have a clue about what we actually know in this field. Regardless, let me ask you this: do you have a sibling or nephew/niece that you love? What if that person got horribly drunk one night and killed a guy, would you turn him/her in if you knew it would probably give them life in prison? You would basically take away the future of the person you love forever. I'm not sure what I would do myself if my brother killed someone random out of the blue. The just thing to do would obviously be to turn him in but I'm not sure I would care enough to override my love for family members. Do you still think this would make me a horrible father? All I can say is that you don't know what it's like to have children and I don't think you should pass judgment on how good of a parent someone is based on a letter appealing to ease the pain of his child.
Man you have to be a one of a kind person, to go on a forum and call for the lynching of someone you don't know, because he wasn't acting rationally regarding a court case you weren't involved with. Calling a guy trash for defending what he remembers as the kid he raised. Like fuck, would you be rational in that situation? Your kid grows up only so you can watch him squander all his opportunities, then goes and rapes a girl. The girl can at least take some comfort in that she has so much life left to live, she has a future. What the fuck does that parent have? That's so many years, the hardship of raising a kid, the sadness of watching said kid choose to be a dogshit-person, then go and cross the line into being a rapist. And now having to wonder for the rest of his life whether it was his fault for something he did wrong. Some of you people in this thread must not have had any severely negative life-experiences, to have such an utter lack of empathy.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50475628]I'm so fucking glad that the reactions in this thread is actually reasonable. On many other sites, people are furious that that judge only gave him 6 months, are are asking for witch hunts with little to no information about it. Hell, there's sometimes more outrage over the judge than the father and the son combined.[/QUOTE] As there should be. The judge had a job to do, and he fucked it up.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;50476962]Man you have to be a one of a kind person, to go on a forum and call for the lynching of someone you don't know, because he wasn't acting rationally regarding a court case you weren't involved with. Calling a guy trash for defending what he remembers as the kid he raised. Like fuck, would you be rational in that situation? Your kid grows up only so you can watch him squander all his opportunities, then goes and rapes a girl. The girl can at least take some comfort in that she has so much life left to live, she has a future. What the fuck does that parent have? That's so many years, the hardship of raising a kid, the sadness of watching said kid choose to be a dogshit-person, then go and cross the line into being a rapist. And now having to wonder for the rest of his life whether it was his fault for something he did wrong. Some of you people in this thread must not have had any severely negative life-experiences, to have such an utter lack of empathy.[/QUOTE] I can understand where youre coming from. Sure, it is a waste of anyone's time, and the rape victim is going to have some real trust issues. I don't know how it feels to see the child you love turn into a rapist because I'm 22 and I don't have a kid, nor would I be able to deal with that responsibility yet because I have enough trouble taking care of myself. All I know is this could and should have been prevented, and that usually starts with proper education. We don't know what went on in the guy's mind, however to dismiss the repercussions of his 20 minute action because you love him so much as a parent... That's wrong to me. I know a woman who was raped when she was 24. A few years ago (she's, iirc, 47 now) I saw her break down. It was terrible. That's what '20 minutes of action' does to a person. People are calling the man trash because all that he's written seems like he doesn't seem to realise that.
[QUOTE=27X;50473754]riiiiiight. Bias recuses dignity, empathy, and common goddamn sense.[/QUOTE] You know that protecting your children is literally a biological and physical imperative for most people, right? Most people with children will straight up die for them, let alone just making some statements that'll be viewed as socially disgusting. Note that I'm not defending the kid, nor do I give a shit about his father. Just saying that this isn't really surprising, the father sees the future his kid is going to have and is desperate. He clearly doesn't give a shit how people perceive him.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;50477830]I can understand where youre coming from. Sure, it is a waste of anyone's time, and the rape victim is going to have some real trust issues. I don't know how it feels to see the child you love turn into a rapist because I'm 22 and I don't have a kid, nor would I be able to deal with that responsibility yet because I have enough trouble taking care of myself. All I know is this could and should have been prevented, and that usually starts with proper education. We don't know what went on in the guy's mind, however to dismiss the repercussions of his 20 minute action because you love him so much as a parent... That's wrong to me. I know a woman who was raped when she was 24. A few years ago (she's, iirc, 47 now) I saw her break down. It was terrible. That's what '20 minutes of action' does to a person. People are calling the man trash because all that he's written seems like he doesn't seem to realise that.[/QUOTE] Thing is, i'm wondering why there is a whole wad of you prepared to go and dole out misery and judgement. this case makes me sad, i hate the idea that there is a person out there somewhere that probably will have trouble ever enjoying sex again, because she will be thinking back to a moment where it was used to harm her. I feel sad that there is this guy who's human feeling is so utterly dead, that he can just go and drag an unconscious woman out behind the dumpster. And i feel sad that a set of parents have to live with the fact that they fostered a boy, watched him grow up, and now have to live with knowing that he not only decided to ruin his life, but also ruin someone else's life. And now that everything is said and done, i'm sad to see some of you people, rolling in here to not only observe this massive wad of human misery. But also voicing loud and proud opinions on how you could make the whole thing worse. Yeah, throw the guy in prison for life, the american prison system will chew his scrawny ass up, there is a marginal chance he wont survive his standing prison-sentence, so lets make it even longer, yeah that'd make him even more miserable, then there is even less chance he could ever be rehabilitated, and come to view his actions with regret, instead he can die miserable, angry and alone, that'd be great. Lets hang his father up on the internet for fucking panicking when he realized his son might never get a chance for a normal life again, and plead for what he saw as a tiny, last-ditch hope to maybe get him out of it. Even though he should rationally know that his son deserves every bit of his sentence, and maybe more. And lets get that judge who was lenient on him for somewhat dodgy reason fired and fined, that could make his life much worse. Its like, misery on top of misery on top of misery. Its like these people are hoping that if they pour all their angry opinions and contempt all over this case, its somehow going to make reality collapse, and unrape the girl. What the hell makes some of you so bloodthirsty, isn't there quite enough tragedy and anguish in the world for your taste?
[QUOTE=maeZtro;50476912]For all we know biology and psychology is as connected as psychology and enviroment, you don't seem to have a clue about what we actually know in this field. Regardless, let me ask you this: do you have a sibling or nephew/niece that you love? What if that person got horribly drunk one night and killed a guy, would you turn him/her in if you knew it would probably give them life in prison? You would basically take away the future of the person you love forever. I'm not sure what I would do myself if my brother killed someone random out of the blue. The just thing to do would obviously be to turn him in but I'm not sure I would care enough to override my love for family members. Do you still think this would make me a horrible father? All I can say is that you don't know what it's like to have children and I don't think you should pass judgment on how good of a parent someone is based on a letter appealing to ease the pain of his child.[/QUOTE] I know a great deal in this field actually, my mother was a PhD analytical psychologist and one of my best friends is a forensic psychologist who's about to get his doctorate, so it's probably likely I've gotten more relevant information in the last year than you're going to get over the course of your life. Again, and I'll state it real slow so you catch it, this is not a fight or flight decision. The father is not saving his son from a bear, the father is not pushing his son out of traffic on a bad bad day. The father is making a reasoned and prepared statement in light of a judicial decision that already knows is not going for favor his child. There is nothing but predisposition present here. There has been plenty of time to set up diction, context and tone, the tone that is set is that this is no big deal, that it's just some mundane [I]action[/I] and his son is surely remorseful aww shucks sheepish shuffle feet sorry guys, and surely, everyone, that's enough for him to receive as a consequence for LITERALLY violating another human being. Bullshit. Some ol' bullshit. His son deserves what a rapist receives, of what the judge has ordered a rapist receive in the past, and 6 months is a joke, and we haven't even covered past sentencing by said judge. His rationalization of his son's actions is entirely reprehensible, and his relationship does not excuse that behavior, and it does not excuse his behavior. [quote] hardship fo raising a kid [/quote] I suggest you do some research on the family's economic status before making such an egregiously incorrect statement. [QUOTE] The girl can at least take some comfort in that she has so much life left to live, she has a future. [/QUOTE] Oh well in THAT case, my bad, your statement doesn't sound completely sociopathic [I]at all[/I]. Mea Culpa
Even if it is true that you have more experience with psychology and sociology than him the way you worded that seems cocky and arrogant. The toxic levels in this thread are off the charts
[QUOTE=27X;50479345]I know a great deal in this field actually, my mother was a PhD analytical psychologist and one of my best friends is a forensic psychologist who's about to get his doctorate, so it's probably likely I've gotten more relevant information in the last year than you're going to get over the course of your life. [/QUOTE] I get what you're saying, but could you have done it in a more pretentious way?
[QUOTE=27X;50479345]I know a great deal in this field actually, my mother was a PhD analytical psychologist and one of my best friends is a forensic psychologist who's about to get his doctorate, so it's probably likely I've gotten more relevant information in the last year than you're going to get over the course of your life. [/QUOTE] Yeah and my uncle works at nintendo, we get it. [QUOTE=27X;50479345] I suggest you do some research on the family's economic status before making such an egregiously incorrect statement. [/QUOTE]Completely irrelevant. Raising kids is not easy no matter how loaded you are. Easier? Yes. Easy? No. I suggest you get your head out of your ass and invest in education yourself rather than depending on some loose references of others. Having a rocket scientist parent does not make you any more informed in that field, sorry.
What if all of you are over thinking this and its really just a bad choice of words for the message hes tried to convey
[QUOTE=27X;50479345][b]I know a great deal in this field actually, my mother was a PhD analytical psychologist and one of my best friends is a forensic psychologist who's about to get his doctorate, so it's probably likely I've gotten more relevant information in the last year than you're going to get over the course of your life.[/b] Again, and I'll state it real slow so you catch it, this is not a fight or flight decision. The father is not saving his son from a bear, the father is not pushing his son out of traffic on a bad bad day. The father is making a reasoned and prepared statement in light of a judicial decision that already knows is not going for favor his child. There is nothing but predisposition present here. There has been plenty of time to set up diction, context and tone, the tone that is set is that this is no big deal, that it's just some mundane [I]action[/I] and his son is surely remorseful aww shucks sheepish shuffle feet sorry guys, and surely, everyone, that's enough for him to receive as a consequence for LITERALLY violating another human being. Bullshit. Some ol' bullshit. His son deserves what a rapist receives, of what the judge has ordered a rapist receive in the past, and 6 months is a joke, and we haven't even covered past sentencing by said judge. His rationalization of his son's actions is entirely reprehensible, and his relationship does not excuse that behavior, and it does not excuse his behavior. I suggest you do some research on the family's economic status before making such an egregiously incorrect statement. Oh well in THAT case, my bad, your statement doesn't sound completely sociopathic [I]at all[/I]. Mea Culpa[/QUOTE] Why do you structure and word your arguements like a giant tumor? You sound like a pretentious asshole who thinks he's always right no matter what. I mean look at what I've put in bold, who the fuck do you think you are?
[QUOTE=27X;50479345]I know a great deal in this field actually, my mother was a PhD analytical psychologist and one of my best friends is a forensic psychologist who's about to get his doctorate, so it's probably likely I've gotten more relevant information in the last year than you're going to get over the course of your life. Again, and I'll state it real slow so you catch it, this is not a fight or flight decision. The father is not saving his son from a bear, the father is not pushing his son out of traffic on a bad bad day. The father is making a reasoned and prepared statement in light of a judicial decision that already knows is not going for favor his child. There is nothing but predisposition present here. There has been plenty of time to set up diction, context and tone, the tone that is set is that this is no big deal, that it's just some mundane [I]action[/I] and his son is surely remorseful aww shucks sheepish shuffle feet sorry guys, and surely, everyone, that's enough for him to receive as a consequence for LITERALLY violating another human being. Bullshit. Some ol' bullshit.[/QUOTE] That's great buddy your mom has a phD in an outdated pseudo-science. However, your friend who I doubt you have talked to probably knows more than me about this so you should really ask him about how biology correlates to psychology. You see our biology affects how and what we think in certain situations, we know this, you mentioned fight or flight for example. But we also know that our biology permanently affects and lays sort of a foundation to our behavior in everyday life, the question is how much this foundation matter and how big it is. There are lots of theories on the matter and many real scientists who are working on this question but the truth is we don't know if biology is 10% of your behavior or 90% of it. Anyways, I don't need science to see that parents put their own children before pretty much anyone else so it's not hard to see why a parent would write terrible stuff if it could benefit their child. I'm not saying that the fathers statement isn't reasoned and prepared, I'm saying that he has a huge psychological bias because it's his son and he doesn't care if what he is writing is bad. Whether this bias is mostly sociological or biological is really beside the point. Also, I have said from the beginning that the son deserves anything he gets and I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest, that is also beside the point. All I have said is that just because a father tries to help his son he isn't automatically an asshole even if his son is a convicted rapist and that so many of you automatically jumps to that conclusion and thinks he deserves a drill to his kneecaps among other stuff is gross.
If they shave a couple of years off his sentence you might as well just tell every other rapist out there, whether they feel guilt or not, to just get their dads to write a soppy sad sob story about how the both of you always enjoyed steak and beer and oh no suddenly rape pls dont destroy my poor babby He's free to write down his thoughts, but what he wrote seems excessively dismissive. Or he just hasnt fully processed it yet. But how he wrote that 20 minutes of action shit tells me he has some views about sexual intercourse that are absolutely wrong. They shouldnt use the fathers story in the decisionmaking process because it adds nothing and has nothing to do with the case. And seriously so many of you seem so incredibly strung calm down with the name calling and shit holy fuck
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;50472646]the father should be investigated for potentially teaching his son that raping an unconcious woman is OK.[/QUOTE] Teaching? Doubt its against a law.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50482529]Teaching? Doubt its against a law.[/QUOTE] I don't know, technically it could be labeled as child abuse or should be IMO but I doubt that his father has taught him to rape, people aren't clean slates when they are born and there are other people that influence you than parents.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;50474979]"He [I]FUCKING RAPED SOMEOBODY[/I] and the judicial system has pre-determined methods of dealing with [I]RAPISTS[/I] and no amount of sugar-coating it makes what he did any less [I]DISGUSTING[/I], nor should it [I]EXCUSE HIM FROM PROPER RECOURSE[/I]." At least that's what I get from it.[/QUOTE] [I]WOW[/I] im [I]GLAD[/I] we have [U]WAYS TO EMPHASIZE WORDS[/U] [editline]9th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50482529]Teaching? Doubt its against a law.[/QUOTE] tbh, I think if someone was taught from a young age to do something illegal, instead of prison they should get rehabilitation.
I'm not so sure on the rehabilitation part. Unless you do Clockwork Orange type rehabilitation I don't really see how it would do good. Even then they'd just revert back to their old self. Point being, the dude deserves at least 3-5 years of prison along with rehabilitation. and if he does it again make it a life sentence. I don't give a shit if his precious little life is ruined, he ruined someone elses life so he deserves the same. You can call it a revenge fantasy all you want, but if he isn't given the maximum amount it just sets a bad example to all the other rapist. Rape is about second to worst thing you can do to a person, I'd almost say worse than murder.
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