[QUOTE=Ericson666;41804603]what if you know the people bullying you in real life, and this is just another way for them to get at you?[/QUOTE]
Well then problem isn't [I]cyber-[/I]​bullying, is it? It's normal bullying.
This probably counts kids calling each other "faggot" a couple of times as bullying.
[QUOTE=pessimistic;41805264]This probably counts kids calling each other "faggot" a couple of times as bullying.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't surprise me.
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;41804539]And some [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1297991]even bully themselves[/url] in an attempt for one thing (and one thing only): attention.[/QUOTE]
why would you go out of your way to demonize a child that has committed suicide in an unrelated thread
you dont understand depression or suicide at all
The internet is full of anonymous assholes, I'm surprised it's not 100%
[t]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Web-bullies.gif[/t]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Biggest_gay.jpg[/img]
Cyber bullying is serious business.
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;41804539]And some [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1297991]even bully themselves[/url] in an attempt for one thing (and one thing only): attention.[/QUOTE]
i don't think an unusual one-off case like this should really be considered in these studies
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41805367]why would you go out of your way to demonize a child that has committed suicide in an unrelated thread
you dont understand depression or suicide at all[/QUOTE]
yeah, nobody realizes this.
believe it or not, online bullying is a very real thing. not everyone is a desensitized online maniac who regularly browses 4chan. most people have much more sensitive emotions. i'll get annoyed at people online, but if they tell me to kill myself, i'll tell them to fuck off and i'll go play a video game.
that's not everyone and it's really idiotic to think that your online experiences represent everybody's. a kid shot himself outside my school last semester because he was being bullied both online and in real life. seriously, feel free to think you're a macho man for being used to hate on the internet, but don't downplay people's feelings because of it.
depression and suicide are super fucking terrible things and saying that people should expect hate for being on the internet is idiotic - most people don't expect that.
[QUOTE=draugur;41804579]Cry about it. What is this block/ignore/report button and what does it do?[/QUOTE]
To be fair, online bullying is usually a symptom of a much larger problem: bullying at home.
Let's say a 12 year old blocks a bully on their tumblr/Facebook, blocks any of their alternate accounts, and also block his/her IP.
That doesn't mean he/she can block the bully in their offline life. In fact, if the victim removes online contact, they're probably much more likely to face the bully offline.
Likewise, as RichyZ pointed out, blocking simply removes contact. It doesn't mean the bully won't stop bullying. Most bullies are pathologically driven to bullying, and won't stop just because they no longer have access to an individual. They'll find other ways to make someone feel like shit: public computers, rumors, offline threats, vandalism, etc.
[QUOTE=valkery;41804654]I've never in my life understood why people are so up in arms over bullying. It's always seemed so asinine to get offended to the point of suicide by what other people think about you.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how you could seriously say something like this.
Everybody who has been bullied (read: everybody in the world capable of understanding other human beings) knows how it feels and should agree that it's an issue.
One of Three of those who are bullied are bullied on facepunch.
also you guys have next to no idea of why people kill themselves over online bullying. nobody's gonna pop a bullet in their skull because some on L4D2 calls them a dumb faggot. it might be the push over the edge, but nobody will go "oh i guess he's right, lemme shoot myself."
it's consistent abuse by peers. if you jokingly call a friend a faggot and they don't get insulted, ok, you're not really bullying anyone. but purposefully directing insults at others (especially shit like "go kill yourself") and psychologically and verbally and physically abusing them is bullying, online and off.
punching people isn't the only way bullying works, guys. anonymous twats like to say really vile shit in order to make people angry, and it's disgusting. people in fragile emotional states won't handle that well - and they will be fragile if they are regularly bullied for any amount of time.
before anyone says "they should just toughen up LOL," that's no how depression or abuse works. would you tell a kid getting verbally abused by his parents to tough it out? would you tell a guy with anal gangrene to just stop whining and tough it out? when kids like this hear that, they internalize everything, because if they talk about it they get the response "oh just toughen up," and then they don't vent and don't get shit out and it builds up inside them and eventually bursts and then you have self-harm and suicide.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;41805407]that's not everyone and it's really idiotic to think that your online experiences represent everybody's. a kid shot himself outside my school last semester because he was being bullied both online and in real life. seriously, feel free to think you're a macho man for being used to hate on the internet, but don't downplay people's feelings because of it.
depression and suicide are super fucking terrible things and saying that people should expect hate for being on the internet is idiotic - most people don't expect that.[/QUOTE]
This exactly. I've met a lot of people whose lives have been fucked over because of Internet hate; it's real and, in my experience, most of the people who "don't care" have probably just built a shell of emotional insensitivity in order to cope with some of the demeaning comments.
I always cringe when I meet someone who claims that cyberbullying doesn't exist. Because they're either a.) extremely sheltered on the Internet, or b.) probably the bullies themselves. Hence why many 4chan /b/ users simultaneously claim "cyberbullying isn't real, grow up" while flaming random online users and trolling websites.
[editline]12th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=.Isak.;41805456]punching people isn't the only way bullying works, guys. anonymous twats like to say really vile shit in order to make people angry, and it's disgusting. people in fragile emotional states won't handle that well - and they will be fragile if they are regularly bullied for any amount of time.[/QUOTE]
I got two angry anonymous posts on tumblr once, one where someone told me they wouldn't mind seeing me brutally raped or dead.
I had anxiety for the rest of the day; I was so afraid they would send me something similar again. It was someone I knew IRL and it was very scary for me. If someone is willing to write a long paragraph where, among other things, they say "I wouldn't mind if you were raped, I hope you die" then it's legitimately understandable that you would be upset.
Saying, "You should just tough it out" is stupid and insensitive to people who suffer from low self-esteem, anxiety disorder, or are emotionally sensitive. Which, at the time, I had all three and received therapy for.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41805458]This exactly. I've met a lot of people whose lives have been fucked over because of Internet hate; it's real and, in my experience, most of the people who "don't care" have probably just built a shell of emotional insensitivity in order to cope with some of the demeaning comments.
I always cringe when I meet someone who claims that cyberbullying doesn't exist. Because they're either a.) extremely sheltered on the Internet, or b.) probably the bullies themselves. Hence why many 4chan /b/ users simultaneously claim "cyberbullying isn't real, grow up" while flaming random online users and trolling websites.[/QUOTE]
Exactly - bullying is possible anywhere where you can interact with people.
Most heavy internet users aren't bothered in the slightest by abusive language, myself (usually) included. 12-year-olds on Facebook and ask.fm who get anonymous hate-mail? They're going to take that shit incredibly personally, especially since people who get bullied online are often the ones who get bullied in real life too.
If anyone in this thread regularly shouts abuse directed at other people in video games or forums or anywhere else online, don't. You don't know who you're talking to. I mean, saying "fuck, isak's down" in a video game is not the same as saying "isak you fucking piece of shit how did you miss that, fucking dumbass cunt go die." Say this short of shit to an emotionally fragile person (and you have no idea who you're talking to or playing games with), and you just exponentially increased their risk of suicide.
Just be nice online and this is never an issue. Telling people to toughen up to abuse is idiotic - just stop the abuse.
my friends and I call each other assorted things, and we just laugh and think of even better vile things to say to each other.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;41805532]
Most heavy internet users aren't bothered in the slightest by abusive language, myself (usually) included. 12-year-olds on Facebook and ask.fm who get anonymous hate-mail? They're going to take that shit incredibly personally, especially since people who get bullied online are often the ones who get bullied in real life too.
If anyone in this thread regularly shouts abuse directed at other people in video games or forums or anywhere else online, don't. You don't know who you're talking to. I mean, saying "fuck, isak's down" in a video game is not the same as saying "isak you fucking piece of shit how did you miss that, fucking dumbass cunt go die." Say this short of shit to an emotionally fragile person (and you have no idea who you're talking to or playing games with), and you just exponentially increased their risk of suicide.
Just be nice online and this is never an issue. Telling people to toughen up to abuse is idiotic - just stop the abuse.[/QUOTE]
Very true. I think some internet users become callous to abusive or strong language/phrases, and begin to separate themselves from their meaning. Plus, you never really know who you're going to be sharing a video game session or online community with.
Another good example is triggering content. Like, in GoW competitive, people like to mimic rape when a player enters "Down But Not Out" (it literally looks like someone is being anally violated, too). It's stupid and idiotic to do that, because you never know who you're playing with and how you might trigger an entire rape experience. But, instead of educating themselves on triggering experiences, the emphasis is on "the victim should toughen up" instead of "we should work towards creating a more open and sensitive community."
[editline]12th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nitro-Trucker;41805572][b]my friends and I[/b] call each other assorted things, and we just laugh and think of even better vile things to say to each other.[/QUOTE]
That's the difference though. You're among friends, and I'm sure if one person says, "This makes me feel uncomfortable," then the vile comments can stop.
Not necessarily the case online with a stranger who's more interested in a power play than humor.
1/1 children are bullied online.
I get it, but it's better to teach kids about how to turn off the browser than whatever retarded shit they are going to come up with to "solve" this problem
I just see another useless way to fill our jails and fine people
[QUOTE=minilandstan;41805388][t]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Web-bullies.gif[/t]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Biggest_gay.jpg[/img]
Cyber bullying is serious business.[/QUOTE]
:'P hahahahah! hehe wow man thats pretty smart and funny
Just because you're largely apathetic to harassment online, doesn't mean you have the right to shit over it and trivialize it. You're really just disregarding what makes people *people* if you're just gonna view it like this.
what's so hard about ignoring instigation
bullying on the internet does not exist and is not an issue except some extreme shit like someone making illegal threats or some shit.
other than that general negative comments/insults are objectively benign.
[QUOTE=Cruma;41805928]what's so hard about ignoring instigation
bullying on the internet does not exist and is not an issue except some extreme shit like someone making illegal threats or some shit.
other than that general negative comments/insults are objectively benign.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for coming in and speaking with us, Commissioner of Unstable Youth. It's good to finally know the rules.
[QUOTE=Nitro-Trucker;41805572]my friends and I call each other assorted things, and we just laugh and think of even better vile things to say to each other.[/QUOTE]
My friends and I are so goddamn vile to each other that if we're in public, I have to make a conscious effort not to spout off racial slurs.
But that's the thing; we're [I]friends[/I]​.
If you get offended on the internet, you don't belong on it.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41806684]If you get offended on the internet, you don't belong on it.[/QUOTE]
I could say the exact same thing about posting shit opinions, and it would hold the exact same validity. The internet has purposes beyond porn and being a dick anonymously.
I wonder what constitutes a "negative experience." I was rated dumb this one time. Am I a statistic?
[QUOTE=Cruma;41805928]what's so hard about ignoring instigation
bullying on the internet does not exist and is not an issue except some extreme shit like someone making illegal threats or some shit.
other than that general negative comments/insults are objectively benign.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41806684]If you get offended on the internet, you don't belong on it.[/QUOTE]
Why punish the ones that are offended?
If you had a shitty family life, got physically and verbally abused at school, then went online to escape from your shitty life and were met with abusive insults towards you, you'd shut down, especially if predisposed to depression.
You don't punish children for being verbally abused by their parents. If you're in public and you insult somebody, you're the shitty person. Somehow, it's reversed on the internet, and if you take an insult poorly, you're the shitty person. You shouldn't be there if you "can't handle it."
It's not a matter of calling somebody gay on Dota or League. It's a matter of consistent verbal abuse in the home, in school, and online. If somebody doesn't get a break from that, they'll snap. These people already have a little demon on their shoulder always telling them how shitty they are. When other people confirm this, whether anonymous or not, they make that kid's life just a bit harder, until they can't deal with how terrible a person they think they are - even if they're great people.
Sure, say that the internet's only for the hardcore macho men who can handle insults, but you're factually wrong. Pretty much everybody regularly uses the internet. Some bullied kids just want to get on and play games or hang out online, and when they're met with abuse in their one safe place, that fucks them right up. It's a psychological norm to defend yourself when insulted, and people who don't heavily use the internet won't really be able to ignore instigation.
Negative comments are benign, sure. Saying fuck or shit or damn or other impersonal curses are totally benign and insult only the tiniest, most miniscule fraction of the population. But when people are faced with verbal abuse that is directed solely at them, that is the polar opposite of benign. You can say that they can just turn off the PC, which is true, but there's plenty of kids that use the internet as a form of escape from already-abusive lives. Hell, even those with good lives can fall victim to depression, and anonymous insults online become so much worse when you have depression. It's not as easy as turning off the PC, because by the time they've heard the insults, it's stuck in their heads and festers and grows. The internet is a giant machine of negative emotional feedback. For me, it's my sole actual emotional outlet - I have tons of friends that are happy to listen to my rants about life and engage in conversation with me, and it lets me get stuff off my chest.
I'll go all anecdotal with this. I burnt out in my upper-level IB high school classes, and placed all my self-worth on my grades, because that was my life and it was how I defined success. When I started doing poorly and missing stuff and getting sick from working too hard and not sleeping, I wouldn't get out of bed and I developed a particularly nasty case of depression. I left that high school, and I spent a few weeks doing little more than arguing with people online. Personal insults hit a thousand times harder. Somebody calls me a piece of shit? "Well, hey... they're right, I'm failing junior year." It reinforces thoughts that I tried to push to the back of my mind, and keeps the "i'm such a shitty person" thought in my mind all day.
That type of negative emotional reinforcement can really fuck up a depressed kid, and it's absolutely goddamn everywhere on the internet. I'm lucky enough to be mostly desensitized, but while depressed, everything hits closer to home. Stuff I'd usually shrug off just made me feel like a shitty person. I contemplated suicide for a while - not solely because of insults online directed to me, but because of my terribly negative self-image. The internet didn't help with that - it reinforced it and made me feel worse and pushed me ever so slightly closer. For some kids, that push is enough to actually commit suicide.
[B]The issue is not about insulting people online.[/B] I call friends and strangers dicks and cunts and stuff all the time, as long as I know they can handle it. It's about verbal abuse. I try not to yell at people that I disagree with or that do poorly during games - they probably know that, and I don't know anything about them. The fact that the internet is almost completely anonymous, and that you have no idea the mental state or the home/school/work environment of the people you're talking to, makes it hard to judge who you can insult in a joking manner and who you shouldn't. Sarcasm is impossible to detect in 90% of cases, especially with people who aren't heavy internet users.
Handling verbal/physical abuse in the home and school should absolutely be the top priorities, and they already are, but verbal abuse is a huge problem online and it's propagated by people who use the veil of anonymity to be enormous dicks to people that they don't know in the slightest. There's no reason for these people to be dicks - they just are because they have the ability to.
Don't blame the kids for not handling the abuse. Blame the abusers. It's not that hard to be nice online - I'm still a dick a lot of the time, but after my run with depression, I have the perspective to realize that I have no idea who the hell I'm talking to and I should just be nice to everybody.
fucking adderall stop making me write goddamn essays.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;41806981]Why punish the ones that are offended?
If you had a shitty family life, got physically and verbally abused at school, then went online to escape from your shitty life and were met with abusive insults towards you, you'd shut down, especially if predisposed to depression.
You don't punish children for being verbally abused by their parents. If you're in public and you insult somebody, you're the shitty person. Somehow, it's reversed on the internet, and if you take an insult poorly, you're the shitty person. You shouldn't be there if you "can't handle it."
Sure, say that the internet's only for the hardcore macho men who can handle insults, but you're factually wrong. Pretty much everybody regularly uses the internet. Some bullied kids just want to get on and play games or hang out online, and when they're met with abuse in their one safe place, that fucks them right up. It's a psychological norm to defend yourself when insulted, and people who don't heavily use the internet won't really be able to ignore instigation.
It's not as easy as turning off the PC, because by the time they've heard the insults, it's stuck in their heads and festers and grows. The internet is a giant machine of negative emotional feedback.
That type of negative emotional reinforcement can really fuck up a depressed kid, and it's absolutely goddamn everywhere on the internet. I'm lucky enough to be mostly desensitized, but while depressed, everything hits closer to home. Stuff I'd usually shrug off just made me feel like a shitty person. I contemplated suicide for a while - not solely because of insults online directed to me, but because of my terribly negative self-image. The internet didn't help with that - it reinforced it and made me feel worse and pushed me ever so slightly closer.
[B]The issue is not about insulting people online.[/B] I call friends and strangers dicks and cunts and stuff all the time, as long as I know they can handle it. It's about verbal abuse.
I'm still a dick a lot of the time
[/QUOTE]
So you call strangers dicks, cunts.etc? I think you've almost completely contradicted yourself with that. Yeah, depression is tough, but the internet is completely different from things in person. When you are on the internet? If someone insults you you can block them or go on a different website. In real life, if someone insults you it is impossible to shut it out. I'm not saying that we should purposely insult people on the internet. I'm saying that the internet is open game. If you can't handle calling you a piece of shit over the internet you should not be getting on it. An escape for people? Video games, yeah. Friends on a online game? Yeah. Other places on the real browsing internet? No. People can say what they like, and if you can't deal with it you should not be on the sites you are on. If you are bullied in real life and it gets onto Facebook or something? Block them and/or tell an adult (If you are an adult getting offended on the internet, I don't know what to really say.)
Cyberbullying outside of social networking is partially the fault of the person getting bullied.
I find it scary how fast people seem to think cyber-bullying is a non issue. You remind me of adults who are told of bullying, but throw it under the rug as "kids just being kids."
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41807105]So you call strangers dicks, cunts.etc? I think you've almost completely contradicted yourself with that. Yeah, depression is tough, but the internet is completely different from things in person. When you are on the internet? If someone insults you you can block them or go on a different website. In real life, if someone insults you it is impossible to shut it out. I'm not saying that we should purposely insult people on the internet. I'm saying that the internet is open game. If you can't handle calling you a piece of shit over the internet you should not be getting on it. An escape for people? Video games, yeah. Friends on a online game? Yeah. Other places on the real browsing internet? No. People can say what they like, and if you can't deal with it you should not be on the sites you are on. If you are bullied in real life and it gets onto Facebook or something? Block them and/or tell an adult (If you are an adult getting offended on the internet, I don't know what to really say.)
Cyberbullying outside of social networking is partially the fault of the person getting bullied.[/QUOTE]
Not hypocritical - it's really obvious it's playful banter. In certain games of L4D2 or Dota, I'll just get along really well with another player and we'll take digs at eachother - usually add them on steam after that. There's a huge difference between somebody making a funny joke at your expense and you responding "lmao, dickhead" and verbal abuse that directly targets a certain person and purposefully assaults them, which is a far larger issue than exchanging curses in video games, and nearly as widespread.
On the internet, sure, it sounds all good. What if you've invested a lot of time in a certain community, and you keep getting harassed and abused by a certain member, yet the mods refuse to ban him and there's no way to block his messages? Nobody's going to ditch their favorite community because of one or two dicks that demonstrate their own insecurities by being incessantly rude to people online.
The thing with the internet, as with real life, especially for the depressed, is that once you hear that insult, it stays. Sure, you can avoid future insults by leaving communities, blocking people, and reporting abusers, but that hardly blocks out everything. Sure, in real life, you can't block out insults, but verbal abuse is so much more common online. Even though you can block it out or desensitize yourself, every insult sticks - again, especially if you're depressed or already bullied in real life.
Again, on Facebook, there's another problem. Hell, there's a thread in GD right now with a guy whose friend is getting harassed on their shared music page, and facebook won't remove the abusive comments even after reporting them. Like I said previously, a lot of these kids don't have very good families, and the internet is their escape.
I don't see how it's the fault of the victim at all. Sure, you're on the internet and people can say what they want, but that doesn't justify abusing your anonymity to verbally abuse others. If you were walking too slow in a crowded area, or talking about your political opinion in a coffee shop with some friends, and somebody started to yell at you, spouting abusive things and telling you to off yourself, they're the ones at fault. Sure, you were walking too slow or sharing your opinions too publicly, you're partially at fault by some stretch of the imagination, I guess. In real life, that person would be criticized, and most people would even intervene if they saw a big guy yelling at a little kid for walking slowly. Hell, it could very well be considered assault, even without physical contact, and the guy might get fined or hauled to jail depending on the severity.
On the internet, what would happen in that situation? Well, nobody knows who's yelling at who. That person was walking too slow - it's their fault, they should deal with the verbal abuse. They're out in public, anyone can say what they want - it's your fault if you get targeted. If you get assaulted for your opinions, that's your fault, if people hear your opinions and disagree they have every right to verbally abuse you and reprimand you for having ideas that they disagree with - it's how the world works. If it bothers you so much, just block them or ignore them or report them.
By the time you block them, the damage is already done to a depressed kid. You've brought up the ideas of "i'm a shitty person" or other negative thoughts back to the front of their mind. There's people who will consistently find ways to verbally abuse somebody online because they dislike them. In real life, that would be stalking and assault and you'd quite literally be able to block them with restraining orders. Online? Block them, they make a new account or anonymously message abusive shit. Block them again and again and again, and, if they're determined enough, nothing happens. In real life, there's a threat of punishment. Online, there's zero, and everybody blames the person being abused, which makes it even harsher. Kids commit suicide when people blame them for being bullied in real life quite often - what makes online different?
The fact is, nobody deserves the verbal abuse that is so widespread on the internet. It's almost a pastime to insult people as much as possible. Some can handle it and get used to it after a while, but, again, the at-risk children (1/5!) are [I]children[/I]. I'd be willing to wager that a lot of them have psychological issues like depression. Some of them are also bullied in real life, and some have abusive (either verbally or physically or both) households and peers. Some might just have bad family situations (divorce, constant travel, alcoholism, poverty) and poor social lives, and the self-esteem issues that tend to go along with those. Going on the internet and playing games is their way of ignoring their lives and escaping.
If reddit and facepunch are not escapes, I don't know what else to call them. They sure as hell are for me. I could read a book. I could write this essay I've been meaning to write for days, or work on improving my life through exercise and meditation. But nah, I think I'll get on reddit and facepunch and read easy-to-digest stuff and post my opinion because it's easier. Websites can serve as escapism just as much as video games. Anything that is used to avoid confronting your life, or to escape the difficulties of your life, is escapism - books, movies, food, sleep, games, exercise, walks. It's not the content, it's the user's intent - exercise and walks aren't inherently escapist, but if a person uses them to avoid their life, then it is.
holy fuck again adderall stop going all stream-of-consciousness on me i have stuff to do hngg
[quote]Almost one in five children who use social networking sites suffered a negative experience last year, research by children's charity the NSPCC shows.
This included bullying, unwanted sexual messages, cyber stalking and feeling pressure to look a certain way.[/quote]
There is only one sollution. We must stop children from socializing.
I suggest we ban everyone under the age of fourteen from using the internet. It's for their own good, really.
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