"outrage" over Deus Ex mankind divided "aug lives matter" promotional image
121 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE]
Except talking about the issue is an important part of making a difference. Trying to argue that people should stop talking about it because you don't think they're doing enough is just stupid and frankly counter productive.
Regardless whether or not that its justified, it's abundantly clear Edios did this quite deliberately. I can't imagine they didn't just notice all the free marketing from the Apartheid shit and release this knowing it would gather just as much, if not more, attention.
I really don't see this as any different than when BLM complained and got cops banned from a pride parade in Toronto. This game's main character is a cyborg and is the target of anti-cyborg bigotry, [I]the game literally puts you on the receiving end of discrimination,[/I] and they should be applauding that. That's the whole point of BLM right? That nobody knows how terrible blacks have it and the movement is there to remind and educate the rest of us about their woes... right? Surely it isn't just an excuse to loudly bitch and occasionally riot. So they should be happy there's a video game coming out for everyone to briefly experience how awful life is when you're discriminated against, a glimpse into their message from a first person perspective.
Not that Deus Ex is literally a minority simulator, but as the franchise has evolved I think it's shifted from "be fun" to "show an interesting story" to "say a message in an exciting way." Sure there's gameplay but I think the developers are really embracing something they've always wanted to do and that's to express an idea that compels the player to think. You can definitely see some glimpses of that in the first game, but these latest additions to the franchise have been pretty thick with the story and with Human Revolution it was clear at the end that you're supposed to think. Or maybe that's just me, I don't know, but after playing it I had to stop and consider "what would society actually do?" I think the way they portrayed it is pretty much how people would react.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE]
you're not wrong about the we can leave the game as a game part, but you seem to be doing quite the opposite
I feel like there's probably some good points in the argument against it but think we should wait for the game to actually be released before going apeshit
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866]..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man?
The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore!
Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE]
So in your mind, to address issues like segregation, it has to be done in the context of your choosing?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50826481]So in your mind, to address issues like segregation, it has to be done in the context of your choosing?[/QUOTE]
All that matters is the execution, and Mankind Divided looks very tasteful about it.
[editline]4th August 2016[/editline]
There are some cases where the attempt is a little heavy handed.
Doing it like this
[t]https://theheartisanorganthatpumpblood.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/n1.jpg[/t]
Might be a bit much when it comes to your allegory.
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50826404]I feel like there's probably some good points in the argument against it but think we should wait for the game to actually be released before going apeshit[/QUOTE]
Well we certainly haven't seen any in this thread yet, there's just one guy making the typical complaints completely ignorant of metaphor and the strength of changing issue context to frame things in a new light.
Many people want to project their own hatred for video games by pretending any interpretation by a video game is automatically "disrespectful", these people dont play video games, their only interest is to create and personally profit off the drama created by it. Then we have the few loud people who feel like their term is being "stolen", these are the people who when they say "black lives matter" really mean something more akin to "only black lives matter". The same people who think cultural appropriation is real and want to stop race mixing/cultural exchange entirely. They want everything sanitized, it must perfectly fit their own little bubble. And of course there's the people who just go along with the previous two groups without actually thinking about it because of peer pressure and a need to seem progressive.
I can't wait for the outrage when Mafia III releases, since that game is supposedly gonna feature racism in its story (and possibly to an extent its [I]gameplay[/I]) in a very heavy way (especially in the cases against blacks), in comparison with this game which features discrimination against some fictional artificial race.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50826222]Can we just tell them all to shut the fuck up, already.
Like, collectively, in the thousands, just bombard them 24/7 with nothing but repeat "shut the fuck up already."
[editline]4th August 2016[/editline]
Im so fatigued having to see all this outrage bullshit everywhere all the time with everything, like god damn.[/QUOTE]
I have a theory.
This whole "SJW explosion" and political correctness overload is going to collapse under its own weight pretty soon, and it will eventually be regarded as an experiment that ultimately proved that lots of people bored with their lives, wanting to create and exacerbate controversy, have ultimately made it worse for everyone, including themselves.
It's just a matter of time, but in the meantime... this whole shitshow is a major pain in the ass.
[editline]4th August 2016[/editline]
2021 can't come soon enough. I wonder what will all be talking about by then.
I have a very stupid hypothesis.
The cross section between 'smart enough to notice this' and 'dumb enough to be offended' is very small. Normally, this is fine. The people who notice it, get it. The people who don't notice it, aren't offended. The problem is that it only takes one person to notice it now, and point it out to all of the other people who otherwise wouldn't have noticed it.
Maybe Black Lives Matter was a successful movement in Deus Ex's alternative universe and now Augmented people are using the same strategy to get similar results.
Maybe people need to chill the fuck out over fictional things with minuscule references.
Outrages like these are just a crux for shitty journalist sites to usher in cheap hits to their articles as they can create controversy nearly everywhere at any point, allowing them to either be a sole provider of it for views or be a source for other sites if the story gets picked up.
You can literally paint this in a good light or a bad light, depending on how you want viewers to react to your article. Power of suggestion is a scary thing and Polygon is a shitty site.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE]
And having a piece of fiction where you play as a protagonist belonging to a minority group is somehow unproductive.
What "difference" should we start making, eh?
[QUOTE=Charades;50826872]Outrages like these are just a crux for shitty journalist sites to usher in cheap hits to their articles as they can create controversy nearly everywhere at any point, allowing them to either be a sole provider of it for views or be a source for other sites if the story gets picked up.[/QUOTE]
bingo
almost every time an "outrage" is posted here, it's either from one person or a handful of people. these sites are giving you the nudge and wink with "hey, look at these craaaaazy PC SJWs. the nerve huh?!" facepunch's SH regulars are supposedly sick of it, but here we are, getting the latest SJW outrage of the week
Don't you guys know you're only allowed to make political statements if you hamfist them into stories and worlds with no regards as to whether they fit the settings or lore?
Clashing themes like racism against African Americans and transgenderism in fantasy realms = Brave developer/writer making a stand for minorities, and a work of pure art that only gets criticized by white male nerds and internet trolls.
Thematically relevant issues like robots/cyborgs being discriminated against in a futuristic setting = oh wow how dare you take advantage of modern day problematic issues to try and sell your shitty product, stop harrassing us and go die in a fire.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825960]All of those works addressed those themes with their work and ideas and deus ex could do that without having to resort to ripping off the name of a entire civil rights movement. I don't see how literally replacing one word could be considered subtle enough to be an allegory or a metaphor unless you claim black people are so closely related to machines that the game is specifically talking about black people and black rights every time they use the words aug or aug rights and this totally isn't a out of place poster shoehorned in to make them seem like their just fucking basic human rights theme that has been going on since the games began way before the blm movement is actually a black rights theme.[/QUOTE]
I love it every time I see someone criticizing Mankind Divided - a game whose plot is "humans with mechanical limbs are still human, not machines" - by turning around and saying "how dare this game try and equate robots with real people".
It's so deliciously ironic and telling of their actual personality.
at this point certain kinds of people just go "yep, those are my keywords, must make angry toxic rants for attention/journalism money now"
i am more offended by architecture in this pic than slogan - that ain't no Moscow, where is my brutalism?
also - entire topic is example of "blowned out of proportion issue that only certain group under very precise circumstances can be offended by if they try really hard". Just like cranberry (a caricaturistic and full stereotypes image of everything russia related) only offensive to those really close to source material.
Perhabs somebody in UN or TED should give a big speech about how twitters and social media akin became just a feeding ground for intentional overdramatisation and therefore should be taken less serious. just like SJW thing in general
"No one can say their lives matter except black people."
I think this is stupid only because it co-opts the message of a movement for a realllllllllllllllllllly dumb and unneeded reminder of just how analogous DXMD's situation is supposed to be.
If "Mechanical Apartheid" wasn't enough, or the promo trailers with augs being beaten and killed unjustly by crowds or cops didn't do it either... hmm, I dunno, it may be a bit too subtle - "AUG LIVES MATTER"? Hmm, not sure if they'd get it.
[editline]4th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50826481]So in your mind, to address issues like segregation, it has to be done in the context of your choosing?[/QUOTE]
In your mind do you think every approach is an appropriate way to tackle any topic? There's of course smart ways to bring up critique and then cheap and dumb ways like this. This move seems entirely corporate and unhuman if anything other than low-hanging fruit.
[QUOTE=hippowombat;50827725]"No one can say their lives matter except black people."[/QUOTE]
what are you even on about
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;50827738]This move seems entirely corporate and unhuman if anything other than low-hanging fruit.[/QUOTE]
yep
a current and ongoing civil rights outcry involving the brutal deaths of both black americans and police officers; having its message adapted to fit a profiting video game is kind of shitty
[QUOTE=djshox;50827794]
a current and ongoing civil rights outcry involving the brutal deaths of both black americans and police officers; having its message adapted to fit a profiting video game is kind of shitty[/QUOTE]
That's one way to look at it, but I'm not sure the real reason is so cynical. Yeah, it's not subtle in the slightest, but I like to think that by having such a direct reference it's easier for an audience to draw parallels between the conflict in the game and the real-life situation it's attempting to represent. I think it's less "this will sell us copies" and more "this will be easy for the audience to understand."
I could be wrong, but that's how it hits me.
It really didn't need to do something so blatant though. If this wasn't the last desperate "HEY, THIS GAME IS ABOUT SEGREGATION AND XENOPHOBIA!!! REMIND YOU OF ANYTHING??" then it was certainly an attempt to wrangle the last few mouth-breather video game players who somehow [I]don't[/I] see the parallel that is already super apparent, and was even apparent in the last game.
Someone call Hulk Hogan and tell him Polygon released one of his sex tapes, we need to get rid of these fuckers next.
I am seriously offended by this. I mean come on "Augs Lives Matters"? It's like they didn't even try to get the grammar right.
In my eyes Augmented people aren't the same as non-augmented people, they are superior.
[QUOTE=Source;50827846]Someone call Hulk Hogan and tell him Polygon released one of his sex tapes, we need to get rid of these fuckers next.[/QUOTE]
"Whose the target?" "It's the SJWs.... they must be stopped."
[editline]4th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;50827852]In my eyes Augmented people aren't the same as non-augmented people, they are superior.[/QUOTE]
W O A H !!!
It's accurate though. They took the phrase associated with a movement and then used it for marketing. They changed it's context and try to use the association it has with the movement to create pathos for a fictional plight.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;50827874]It's accurate though. They took the phrase associated with a movement and then used it for marketing. They changed it's context and try to use the association it has with the movement to create pathos for a fictional plight.[/QUOTE]
Well, Eidos guy himself says they thought of it before the existence of blm.
[url]https://twitter.com/GeneralVu/status/760838107948277760[/url]
I don't personally believe that, that sounds really unbelievable. And even if that was the case, they should recognize in the two-three years they were sitting on it that it may be perceived in the way it is being perceived and maybe not go ahead with it.
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