Wisconsin recount now underway - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Skanic;51432342]Just watch this video and be enlightened [video=youtube;wScnlBEg27Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wScnlBEg27Q[/video][/QUOTE] i too take a source like "lunatic liberals" as an amazing source of informantion. just about as good as a source as my grandma who thinks the gays are destroying america.

[QUOTE=unrezt;51431552]Literally doing the same thing Trump promised to do, and he got blasted for suggesting such a thing. If it wasn't okay then why is it okay now?[/QUOTE] I couldn't tell you. I see stuff like this always getting a pass when non-republican parties do it. Like when romney made the 47% quote everyone was up in arms, but clinton does the same with the "basket of deplorables" quote and a hell of a lot of people defended that.

Clinton wasn't going to do this, but now Stein has pushed for it and done it, they are helping out to make sure it's fair. I don't really see anything hypocritical about that.

[QUOTE=Govna;51431699] Also, if you didn't vote, that's too bad. You didn't participate at all, so you have no right to give input one way or the other.[/QUOTE] Wrong on so many levels numbers fail me to adequately count them all. Are you a citizen of, or a legal resident of, the United States of America? Yes? [b]Then you have just as much right to bitch about the terrible state of affairs on Capitol Hill, to protest, to try to get your voice heard.[/b] That is the end of it. This isn't some asinine dictatorship where only those who piss a pointless ballot into the endless sea of piss that is American Politics get a voice. This is a place where every last one of us, whether we voted or not, whether our candidate won or lost, gets a voice. My voice is just as worth hearing as yours is, even though I didn't vote. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;51432276]Because you didn't bother participating. If you didn't bother participating, then why should we listen to you?[/quote] [b]Because we pay taxes and are subject to the bullshit just like you are.[/b]

I hope Stein embezzles all the money she has gathered and fucks off to Cuba or Venezuela or something. I'd die roaring with laughter.

[QUOTE=Govna;51431699]It actually is a valid argument because it relates to the democratic process by which our society determines who wins and who loses; that's the fundamental method by which we determine who wins and who loses at the end of the day. The idea that the electoral college system has any relevance here when it's already been thoroughly established that it's an archaic method that completely ignores the will of the people is bogus, and saying it does is just an attempt to distract from the fact that it either needs to be drastically reformed or abolished altogether.[/QUOTE] Depends whether you consider a system which ignores the "will of the people" to actually be a bad thing. If the people's will was indeed a Clinton Presidency (which it wasn't) than any system which would have subverted it is OK in my book. [QUOTE=Govna;51431699][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k[/media][/QUOTE] Can we stop posting this bloody video. The fact that the electoral college is "not democratic" is a feature not a bug. It was created specifically to ensure that "one person one vote" was [B]not[/B] the system the US used to decide the President. [QUOTE=Zero-Point;51431866]"She only has more votes because Crooked Hillary rigged the election! Sad!"[/QUOTE] Analysis: probably true. [QUOTE=MissZoey;51432569]Clinton wasn't going to do this, but now Stein has pushed for it and done it, they are helping out to make sure it's fair. I don't really see anything hypocritical about that.[/QUOTE] The Clinton's and anyone associated with them are among the most untrustworthy scum on the planet, they never engage in [B][U]any[/U][/B] endeavor to just "make sure it's fair". They [B]always[/B] have ulterior motives and those motives are [B]always[/B] treacherous. Best case scenario they think the recount will reveal that Clinton actually won those states, worst case is they will be working behind the scenes to make it [B]look[/B] like Hillary won those states.

[QUOTE=Skanic;51432342]Just watch this video and be enlightened [video=youtube;wScnlBEg27Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wScnlBEg27Q[/video][/QUOTE] The only way I could be "enlightened" by this would be if I were a cave man marveling at the fact that videos are apparently a thing. Do you seriously watch this stuff?

[QUOTE=Maegord;51432257]Nothing can be entirely immune to hacks, but it can certainly get well past the point that it's more logical and efficient to do it digitally. After all, must transactions are already done digitally, using systems with bank accounts and balances of said account that are connected directly to the Internet. If it's reliable enough to entrust our wealth to it, why shouldn't we trust a similar system for our vote?[/QUOTE] Actually, even with all our technology paper ballots are the best thing you can have to ensure the voting process is safe from rigging (at least from the counting side). [video=youtube;w3_0x6oaDmI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI[/video] TL;DW: Physical paper ballots require a huge amount of manpower to change in any significant amount while a digital voting system could, theoretically, be completely compromised by a single person with the necessary know-how.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;51432569]Clinton wasn't going to do this, but now Stein has pushed for it and done it, they are helping out to make sure it's fair. I don't really see anything hypocritical about that.[/QUOTE] The reason Clinton wasn't going to do it first is because the Democrats, notably Obama, Warren and her supporters, were all consistently repeating that the elections are fair and not rigged in any way. They said that as all the polls were showing that she was most likely to win the election and were demanding that Trump publicly state he would accept the election results. Now, that the table has been flipped on them and they find themselves faced with loss they know they cannot just up and say "voting fraud:scream::scream::scream:" or "it's rigged!!!!" because it will cause backlash on them after their repeated statements that it is all fair. But, with Stein demanding the recount they can say it wasn't them asking for it but that they would be more than generous to help with the effort. I distrust their assistance because after all the shit they have pulled in the primaries who is to say they won't try anything funny with the actual ballots?

It's weird that asking for a recount equates to "it's rigged!!!!" I think it's pretty reasonable to ask to double-check something when the margin is really close. But honestly there's probably no way they could get it across without that interpretation occuring.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51432344]if democracy is so important than why is it undermined in the presidential election with winner takes all you mistake and generalize apathy where theres really disenfranchisement. basically blaming the victim.[/QUOTE] That's not undermining democracy, that's literally the definition of democracy. The candidate with the most votes wins; the people that vote are all equal: one person = one vote. This is not difficult to understand. Disenfranchisement means that your ability to vote has been revoked. Razzums said he could vote-- he just chose not to because he didn't feel like it because the results were going to turn out how he wanted them to in his own state. You're trying to turn this into victim blaming over disenfranchisement, which is bullshit and a distinct matter altogether. There are no victims here. It's a clear-cut case of apathy: "I don't want to vote because I really don't care to do it, things will probably work out how I want them to anyway." That's nice I guess, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're not bothering to participate. [QUOTE=TestECull;51432582]Wrong on so many levels numbers fail me to adequately count them all. Are you a citizen of, or a legal resident of, the United States of America? Yes? [b]Then you have just as much right to bitch about the terrible state of affairs on Capitol Hill, to protest, to try to get your voice heard.[/b] That is the end of it. This isn't some asinine dictatorship where only those who piss a pointless ballot into the endless sea of piss that is American Politics get a voice. This is a place where every last one of us, whether we voted or not, whether our candidate won or lost, gets a voice. My voice is just as worth hearing as yours is, even though I didn't vote. [b]Because we pay taxes and are subject to the bullshit just like you are.[/b][/QUOTE] Stop. You're the kind of person who doesn't bother doing anything when it comes to voting, then who turns around and complains when things didn't turn out the way that you wanted them to when the results come in. And then you try to hock the blame on every other external force imaginable so you don't have to face the fact that you yourself didn't bother chipping in at all by doing something as simple as taking maybe an hour at most out of your day to vote. That's pathetic. If you want change, then you have to go out and make change. Vote. Protest. Bitching about stuff is meaningless unless you actually back it up with action of some sort. You have to contribute, that's how democracy works. You get out of it what you put into it. You [i]can[/i] be apathetic if you want, you [i]can[/i] make as much noise about it as you want or none at all. However, if you choose to not go out and exercise your right to vote-- that action/force that literally drives the fucking country in whatever direction it takes because we're supposed to be a democratic society-- then you still contributed nothing at all. You did nothing to try and sway the outcome of events. Again, that's the worst type of person in a democracy: the apathetic kind who doesn't do anything to instigate change, then complains about how everything is still terrible and how nothing has changed. It makes [b]zero[/b] fucking sense. Oh, you pay taxes? Congratulations? So do I, and so do the others that voted. You had no excuse to not participate, but you still chose not to. So why then should anybody listen to you complain? They shouldn't. Because you did nothing. You didn't even [i]try[/i] to do anything. You had every opportunity to participate in this election, and you chose not to. That's your own fault. Again, you're [i]allowed[/i] to be lazy and apathetic if you want to be, but normalizing that kind of behavior is ridiculous, and pretending that the opinion of somebody who is lazy and apathetic and who doesn't even make so much as a basic attempt to change things through the simple act of voting is equal to the opinion of somebody who does is just as ridiculous. You either care enough to contribute, or you don't. You either take action, or you don't, and that includes voting. That's all that counts at the end of the day.

I think the whole "you can't complain if you didn't vote" is only partly true. It really depends on what we're specifically talking about; I don't blame people for not wanting to actively participate in the shit system itself. But if say, you're involved in LGBT activism, but didn't vote, and Trump's warning signs turn out to be true and we start getting some really shitty legislation. Well... I don't know what to tell you.

[QUOTE=Govna;51432843]That's not undermining democracy, that's literally the definition of democracy. The candidate with the most votes wins; the people that vote are all equal: one person = one vote. This is not difficult to understand.[/QUOTE] But that's not how it works which was my entire point, which you did not understand because of the below: [QUOTE=Govna;51432843]Disenfranchisement means that your ability to vote has been revoked. Razzums said he could vote-- he just chose not to because he didn't feel like it because the results were going to turn out how he wanted them to in his own state. You're trying to turn this into victim blaming over disenfranchisement, which is bullshit and a distinct matter altogether. There are no victims here. It's a clear-cut case of apathy: "I don't want to vote because I really don't care to do it, things will probably work out how I want them to anyway." That's nice I guess, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're not bothering to participate.[/QUOTE] The definition of disenfranchisement is not limited to literally revoking the ability to vote. It is also a way to refer to alienation. An example: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_disenfranchisement[/url] Alienated people are not necessarily lazy, or apathetic. I wish you could look past your contempt and see that. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] winner takes all implied our first past the post electoral vote system

Surpised they're only recounting states Clinton didn't win. I have a hunch if they recounted states with more lax voting rules, enough illegal votes might actually be purged to cost her the popular vote. All just a hunch though.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51433068]Surpised they're only recounting states Clinton didn't win. I have a hunch if they recounted states with more lax voting rules, enough illegal votes might actually be purged to cost her the popular vote. [B]All just a hunch though.[/B][/QUOTE] yah

[QUOTE=Govna;51432843] Stop. [/quote] No. You stop saying my voice doesn't matter because I don't waste my time casting a ballot in a state that's such a die-hard GOP stronghold that it would have still been called for trump fifteen minutes after election coverage if he had kicked proceedings off by shooting an orphan on fifth avenue in broad daylight. [img]http://i.imgur.com/fxwktVR.png[/img] Seriously. There is no fucking point here. With a map like that I see no way you can straightfacedly tell me my vote matters. And, hell, let's assume I'm in a swing state. Then what? [b]Both candidates are equally terrible and we would be better off not electing anyone at all than we are having elected one of them.[/b] Clinton is another case of 'corrupt, bought, career shitlord politician', and Trump is the very person that's buying the career shitlord politicians in the first place. They're both equal parts terrible and I don't want either of them in the oval office. My cat would be better as POTUS, hell I would make a better president. So where's that leave my voice on the ballot? RAndom background noise. If you aren't the GOP or Dem candidate you don't get a snowball's in hell. That's the entire reason why Bernie ran as a Dem, why Trump ran as GOP. Third parties do not get any traction in America, they never have, and they never will as long as we use the system we use. It actively kills them off and forces us into a binary choice between two absolute fucks. No, my voice matters just as much as anyone who voted's, and nothing you say, no namecalling, no apathy blame, will change that. Whether or not I throw a pointless ballot into a box on November 8th is irrelevant. I regularly bitch my senators and reps out over email...well, their aides anyway, I'm sure nobody's email ever actually reaches their eyes....and that's far more effective than anything I could ever do at the ballot box. I work my ass off 40+ hours a week, I pay federal income taxes, [b]my voice matters just as much as yours does whether you like that or not, whether you agree with that or not.[/b] The only thing telling us our voices don't matter does is encourage the very apathy you're claiming is the basis for our unwillingness to vote, just FYI. You might wanna try a different tactic, like, say, idunno, getting good candidates in the running.

[QUOTE=Govna;51432276]Because you didn't bother participating. If you didn't bother participating, then why should we listen to you? You're not helping, you're just being useless and apathetic. Again, democracy requires for people to actually get out there and do things with themselves; voting is the backbone for democratic society, so you have to participate in it-- or else you're just shirking your responsibility and aren't doing anything with yourself. Because democracy literally revolves around the "rule of the people". They have to participate, or else you cease to have a democracy. This is exactly why apathy is the worst thing for democracy. And he was apathetic, hence why he did not vote. If he's not participating like the rest of us are, then we have no reason to care about him or what he has to say. Because (to reiterate) democracy literally revolves around the "rule of the people". They have to participate, or else you cease to have a democracy. This is exactly why apathy is the worst thing for democracy. And he was apathetic, hence why he did not vote. If he's not participating like the rest of us are, then we have no reason to care about him or what he has to say. He has contributed nothing, so he does not matter. Then you write-in who you want. You protest vote. You go out and physically protest for whoever you want. Etc. Also, his lack of concern for local and state affairs isn't doing him any favors here; it just continues to prove that he's apathetic not only about his country as a whole but about where he specifically lives as well. If he doesn't even care about something as basic as that, then we should we care what he has to say? We shouldn't. His opinion does not matter. He has contributed nothing, nor does he care to contribute anything. Because (for the last fucking time) democracy literally revolves around the "rule of the people". They have to participate, or else you cease to have a democracy. This is exactly why apathy is the worst thing for democracy. And he was apathetic, hence why he did not vote. If he's not participating like the rest of us are, then we have no reason to care about him or what he has to say. He has contributed nothing, and he never had any intention of contributing anything. Well I really don't care if you take me seriously or not lol. There's plenty of other people out there who despise apathy about politics and government just as much as I do, and they despise it for the exact same reasons I do (and then some). So you see, it's not just me you're dealing with. It's a group of people who pretty well all feel the same about this subject. I can't tell if this is just willful ignorance on your part or not, but it's pretty important that in a democracy you have everybody pulling their own weight and exercising their ability to participate-- not being useless and apathetic. Again, they [i]can[/i] be useless and apathetic if they want to be, but they're hurting democratic society with their behavior, and the rest of us who actually get out and contribute will not care at all about them or what they have to say. If they aren't doing anything, then we have no reason to care about them and their opinions.[/QUOTE] Okay. Listen: You obviously don't understand the constitution, please stop. Its an anti-democratic document to REGULATE democracy, not enable it. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;51433190]No. You stop saying my voice doesn't matter because I don't waste my time casting a ballot in a state that's such a die-hard GOP stronghold that it would have still been called for trump fifteen minutes after election coverage if he had kicked proceedings off by shooting an orphan on fifth avenue in broad daylight. [img]http://i.imgur.com/fxwktVR.png[/img] Seriously. There is no fucking point here. With a map like that I see no way you can straightfacedly tell me my vote matters. And, hell, let's assume I'm in a swing state. Then what? [b]Both candidates are equally terrible and we would be better off not electing anyone at all than we are having elected one of them.[/b] Clinton is another case of 'corrupt, bought, career shitlord politician', and Trump is the very person that's buying the career shitlord politicians in the first place. They're both equal parts terrible and I don't want either of them in the oval office. My cat would be better as POTUS, hell I would make a better president. So where's that leave my voice on the ballot? RAndom background noise. If you aren't the GOP or Dem candidate you don't get a snowball's in hell. That's the entire reason why Bernie ran as a Dem, why Trump ran as GOP. Third parties do not get any traction in America, they never have, and they never will as long as we use the system we use. It actively kills them off and forces us into a binary choice between two absolute fucks. No, my voice matters just as much as anyone who voted's, and nothing you say, no namecalling, no apathy blame, will change that. Whether or not I throw a pointless ballot into a box on November 8th is irrelevant. I regularly bitch my senators and reps out over email...well, their aides anyway, I'm sure nobody's email ever actually reaches their eyes....and that's far more effective than anything I could ever do at the ballot box. I work my ass off 40+ hours a week, I pay federal income taxes, [b]my voice matters just as much as yours does whether you like that or not, whether you agree with that or not.[/b] The only thing telling us our voices don't matter does is encourage the very apathy you're claiming is the basis for our unwillingness to vote, just FYI. You might wanna try a different tactic, like, say, idunno, getting good candidates in the running.[/QUOTE] That doesn't even account for those of us who were so thoroughly burned by the frankly illegal bullshit the DNC pulled against Bernie, why the fuck would I vote for the bitch who decided to generalize and stereotype me? Why would i vote for a crazy neocon? [B]The options were shit, why should I vote for someone that doesn't exist.[/B] [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] What's next, protest votes don't count? I could literally say I voted and the only people who could refute are family so why in the fuck does it matter to begin with. [I]ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M STILL PAYING TAXES.[/I]

[QUOTE=Swilly;51433362]What's next, protest votes don't count? I could literally say I voted and the only people who could refute are family so why in the fuck does it matter to begin with. [I]ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M STILL PAYING TAXES.[/I][/QUOTE] People actually argue this too, and/or argue that voting 3rd parting is a wasted vote and that you're horrible for doing so. no matter where the goalpost is it's dumb all around. to misquote govna, "willfully ignorant"

It'd be a lot more productive to tell people to actually attempt contact with their state's congressmen/legislators on issues that are important to you, either through traditional letters, Email, or petition, than bullying them for not choosing the cyanide pill instead of the grenade. A lot of people seem to forget that the job of the people you vote for is to represent you, and they can't do that if they don't have dialogue with you. Though I guess there's the argument that they simply wouldn't care or are payed money to conflict with your concerns, it's better than nothing and could still effect how they write or vote on legislation in the future. Btw, it's a lot easier to sway local elections than people seem to think. You think the turnout to vote for National elections is pathetic? How many people do you think bother to vote in the local ones?

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51432771]Depends whether you consider a system which ignores the "will of the people" to actually be a bad thing. If the people's will was indeed a Clinton Presidency (which it wasn't) than any system which would have subverted it is OK in my book.[/quote] You just stated that a system that subverts the will of the people is a good thing if the will of the people goes a different way than you'd like, and you have the gall to sit there and prattle on about how we should just accept the results? You're calling for the death of democracy. You're asking for a literal dictatorship. How far gone are you, Whoaly? [quote]Can we stop posting this bloody video. The fact that the electoral college is "not democratic" is a feature not a bug. It was created specifically to ensure that "one person one vote" was [B]not[/B] the system the US used to decide the President.[/quote] The electoral college was created to ensure a flat minimum power base existed so that small states still had a democratic say in things. Noble idea, and possibly even good in practice-- at least until we broke the balancing factor a hundred years ago. The electoral college was supposed to scale with population size. It stopped doing that in 1913. Every passing year, the results get more and more skewed. Electoral college is broken. [quote]The Clinton's and anyone associated with them are among the most untrustworthy scum on the planet, they never engage in [B][U]any[/U][/B] endeavor to just "make sure it's fair". They [B]always[/B] have ulterior motives and those motives are [B]always[/B] treacherous.[/quote] You say this as if it's fact, and not just your own skewed perspective. [quote]Best case scenario they think the recount will reveal that Clinton actually won those states[/quote] Okay, if there's a realistic chance that Clinton may have actually won those states, then a recount is completely justified. [quote]worst case is they will be working behind the scenes to make it [B]look[/B] like Hillary won those states.[/QUOTE] ... Based on what? You keep throwing around this theory that Clinton and her Shadow Masters are rigging the election (that she already lost), and the only explanation I've seen you give so far is that when they rigged the general election, they didn't rig it good enough, so now they have to come in and rig the rigged results, and... Like, are you not seeing how ridiculous this sounds?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51433688]The electoral college was created to ensure a flat minimum power base existed so that small states still had a democratic say in things. Noble idea, and possibly even good in practice-- at least until we broke the balancing factor a hundred years ago. The electoral college was supposed to scale with population size. It stopped doing that in 1913. Every passing year, the results get more and more skewed. Electoral college is broken. [/QUOTE] I personally find it strange that people defend the Electoral College as a way for states to have more say when they already have the House and Senate where they chose their own respective representatives, and those are the branches that actually instate laws and declare war and shit.

As funny as it would be if Clinton somehow won the election through a recount, I don't think it's going to happen.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51433190]No. You stop saying my voice doesn't matter because I don't waste my time casting a ballot in a state that's such a die-hard GOP stronghold that it would have still been called for trump fifteen minutes after election coverage if he had kicked proceedings off by shooting an orphan on fifth avenue in broad daylight. [img]http://i.imgur.com/fxwktVR.png[/img] Seriously. There is no fucking point here. With a map like that I see no way you can straightfacedly tell me my vote matters. And, hell, let's assume I'm in a swing state. Then what? [b]Both candidates are equally terrible and we would be better off not electing anyone at all than we are having elected one of them.[/b] Clinton is another case of 'corrupt, bought, career shitlord politician', and Trump is the very person that's buying the career shitlord politicians in the first place. They're both equal parts terrible and I don't want either of them in the oval office. My cat would be better as POTUS, hell I would make a better president. So where's that leave my voice on the ballot? RAndom background noise. If you aren't the GOP or Dem candidate you don't get a snowball's in hell. That's the entire reason why Bernie ran as a Dem, why Trump ran as GOP. Third parties do not get any traction in America, they never have, and they never will as long as we use the system we use. It actively kills them off and forces us into a binary choice between two absolute fucks. No, my voice matters just as much as anyone who voted's, and nothing you say, no namecalling, no apathy blame, will change that. Whether or not I throw a pointless ballot into a box on November 8th is irrelevant. I regularly bitch my senators and reps out over email...well, their aides anyway, I'm sure nobody's email ever actually reaches their eyes....and that's far more effective than anything I could ever do at the ballot box. I work my ass off 40+ hours a week, I pay federal income taxes, [b]my voice matters just as much as yours does whether you like that or not, whether you agree with that or not.[/b] The only thing telling us our voices don't matter does is encourage the very apathy you're claiming is the basis for our unwillingness to vote, just FYI. You might wanna try a different tactic, like, say, idunno, getting good candidates in the running.[/QUOTE] then fuck it man, just vote for your local government and write in for the government that doesn't represent you if you feel that way. if you hate the system at least fucking vote for something that does matter. beyond that, you aren't really allowed to have an opinion on something you had the opportunity to actively fight against, and yet actively chose not to and vehemently defend yourself to. it's fine to not vote, but don't throw your hat into the ring if you think your opinion really doesn't matter that much. instead, actively fight against the system you hate by voting third party, even if it "doesn't matter." then sit and cry about it on the internet. but if you've accepted that your opinion doesn't matter because your ballot isn't worth anything, then why the hell are you debating about it so strongly on an internet forum where it really doesn't matter. you can't choose to not have cake and then complain about the flavor before you've tasted it.

[QUOTE=Maegord;51432257]Nothing can be entirely immune to hacks, but it can certainly get well past the point that it's more logical and efficient to do it digitally. After all, must transactions are already done digitally, using systems with bank accounts and balances of said account that are connected directly to the Internet. If it's reliable enough to entrust our wealth to it, why shouldn't we trust a similar system for our vote?[/QUOTE] Bank accounts get hacked all the damn time due to end user password shittiness, actual service failure / exploits, phishing, etc. Not a great comparison. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Whoaly;51432771] The Clinton's and anyone associated with them are among the most untrustworthy scum on the planet, they never engage in [B][U]any[/U][/B] endeavor to just "make sure it's fair". They [B]always[/B] have ulterior motives and those motives are [B]always[/B] treacherous. Best case scenario they think the recount will reveal that Clinton actually won those states, worst case is they will be working behind the scenes to make it [B]look[/B] like Hillary won those states.[/QUOTE] mmm, gonna need some sourced on a claim as bodacious as that. [editline]27th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;51432582] Are you a citizen of, or a legal resident of, the United States of America? Yes? [b]Then you have just as much right to bitch about the terrible state of affairs on Capitol Hill, to protest, to try to get your voice heard.[/b] That is the end of it. This isn't some asinine dictatorship where only those who piss a pointless ballot into the endless sea of piss that is American Politics get a voice. This is a place where every last one of us, whether we voted or not, whether our candidate won or lost, gets a voice. [/b][/QUOTE] Yeah you're entitled to a voice, doesn't change the fact that you're a little bitch if you didn't vote then complained about the outcome.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51434400]then fuck it man, just vote for your local government and write in for the government that doesn't represent you if you feel that way. if you hate the system at least fucking vote for something that does matter. beyond that, you aren't really allowed to have an opinion on something you had the opportunity to actively fight against, and yet actively chose not to and vehemently defend yourself to. it's fine to not vote, but don't throw your hat into the ring if you think your opinion really doesn't matter that much. instead, actively fight against the system you hate by voting third party, even if it "doesn't matter." then sit and cry about it on the internet. but if you've accepted that your opinion doesn't matter because your ballot isn't worth anything, then why the hell are you debating about it so strongly on an internet forum where it really doesn't matter. you can't choose to not have cake and then complain about the flavor before you've tasted it.[/QUOTE] Voting third party isn't voting to change the system, you're just voting to swap out one of the two dominant parties if voting on a national level. So the better analogy would be to fighting to change the electoral system, by education and agitation and whatnot. Parties won't change a system that benefits those in power unless the public clamors for the change specifically.

Here come the shitposts! [media]https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/802671162383802368[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/802849330176659456[/media] And a long continuous set of tweets that I don't feel like tagging came afterwards.

[QUOTE=Water-Marine;51435085]Here come the shitposts! [media]https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/802671162383802368[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/802849330176659456[/media] And a long continuous set of tweets that I don't feel like tagging came afterwards.[/QUOTE] Shame that even the president elect doesn't understand conceding isn't legally binding and what not. I'm betting he'd have been calling recounts left in right if he lost, don't get why he's shittalking on twitter about it.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;51435221]Shame that even the president elect doesn't understand conceding isn't legally binding and what not. I'm betting he'd have been calling recounts left in right if he lost, don't get why he's shittalking on twitter about it.[/QUOTE] To create a group of people that through echoing their leader's snideness bolster the opinion that recounts aren't deserved because of conceding. Aka a petty attempt to disqualify on no logical grounds. Aka poorly hidden appeal to emotion

[QUOTE=Rocko's;51435221]Shame that even the president elect doesn't understand conceding isn't legally binding and what not. I'm betting he'd have been calling recounts left in right if he lost, don't get why he's shittalking on twitter about it.[/QUOTE] Bigger shame that the president elect is such a petty, thin-skinned child that he has to stay up all night angrily tweeting conspiracy theories and insults about his political opposite.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51435318]Bigger shame that the president elect is such a petty, thin-skinned child that he has to stay up all night angrily tweeting conspiracy theories and insults about his political opposite.[/QUOTE] now that he's gonna be the prez he should look into hiring someone to do that. like me! it'd be my dream job, getting paid to shitpost on twitter using nearly the same format over and over again. and depending on the pay, I'll even whip out the thesaurus now and then to really add some razzle dazzle to my rants.