Microstamped firing pins may cause gun manufacturers to relocate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GunFox;37456848]Man I wish I believed in good conspiracies. At least then I would have some faith in government. But really they are just assholes. Generally incompetent, self interested, assholes. Voting generally consists of "which one of these douchebags do you hate less?".[/QUOTE] This is the country where pizza is vegetable and pregnancy starts two weeks before conception, I think it's far more likely that this is a case of people having no idea what they're doing than a plan to phase out gun ownership.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37455703]And then they call for firing pins to be made from diamond.[/QUOTE] diamond is hard, not strong, it would shatter like glass

[QUOTE=Mingebox;37456773]Oh, so they're already trying to disarm any potential revolution? Might as well go lie down in my FEMA coffin right now.[/QUOTE] It's more along the lines of making "Saturday night specials" more expensive and less available.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37456808]Surprised these people knew enough about the guns they hate so much to know what a firing pin is, let alone how to harass people with it like this. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] 1) "what if" isn't an argument because I could simply say "what if [opposite scenario]" 2) $12 stacks up [I]a lot[/I] in expenses. 3) You're an expert on what most white collar murderers know and don't know?[/QUOTE] 1) If you watch a few of the real life first 48 style shows, most criminals are taken down by simple mistakes 2) How many guns do you buy a year? 3) Again, I will look for a source on this, but yeah, pretty sure a lot of gun crime is solved by finger prints. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;37456856]Even without external help microstamping isn't reliable. At all.[/QUOTE]I'm afraid I don't understand what you're referring to. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] For the record, I love my guns as much as anyone else, I just don't see a huge issue with this.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37456903]1) If you watch a few of the real life first 48 style shows, most criminals are taken down by simple mistakes 2) How many guns do you buy a year? 3) Again, I will look for a source on this, but yeah, pretty sure a lot of gun crime is solved by finger prints. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] I'm afraid I don't understand what you're referring to.[/QUOTE] What I'm saying is that microstamping isn't reliable. You'd be lucky to get an intact stamp at a crime scene, even then it doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the weapon was used in that crime. All you have to do is drop a couple casings you got from the range at the scene of the crime. Again, this is assuming you can get a readable stamp at all.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;37456873]This is the country where pizza is vegetable and pregnancy starts two weeks before conception, I think it's far more likely that this is a case of people having no idea what they're doing than a plan to phase out gun ownership.[/QUOTE] Normally I'd agree. Assuming ignorance before malice is an excellent policy in much of life. Especially handy for not being as annoyed by traffic. But the problem arises from the fact that they have been given a torrent of evidence pointing out that the system doesn't work, and yet they still pursue it. This removes ignorance from the equation. The information is there and is pretty easy to understand, even if you aren't familiar with firearms. Money is certainly a possibility, but the microstamping industry doesn't quite have enough money to bribe much of anyone. Perhaps there is another money source, but I don't know what that would be. Which leaves us with the politicians just being incompetent assholes. With the long history in California and New York of them being dicks needlessly to firearm owners and in the face of all evidence pointing out their actions are wholly unnecessary, the best answer I can produce is that they are bad at their job and are dickwads about it.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37456903]1) If you watch a few of the real life first 48 style shows, most criminals are taken down by simple mistakes 2) How many guns do you buy a year? 3) Again, I will look for a source on this, but yeah, pretty sure a lot of gun crime is solved by finger prints. [/QUOTE] 1) You're quoting a show for entertainment for evidence? They only show cases that are successful and best for entertainment are shown. They don't show cases that fail or go cold because that wouldn't be entertaining. 2) I meant expensive for the business which will inevitably make it leave NY for a better state, costing 1,100 people their jobs as stated in the article. And on top of all that - why pay even [I]a little[/I] extra for something that will wear out after a couple firings at worse, a few dozen at best and won't do anyone any good?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37456977]What I'm saying is that microstamping isn't reliable. You'd be lucky to get an intact stamp at a crime scene, even then it doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the weapon was used in that crime. All you have to do is drop a couple casings you got from the range at the scene of the crime. Again, this is assuming you can get a readable stamp at all.[/QUOTE]What I'm saying is if it can prevent a serial murderer from killing one more person. How much money is worth spending on that?

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457034]What I'm saying is if it can prevent a serial murderer from killing one more person. How much money is worth spending on that?[/QUOTE] It's not going to prevent a serial murder, it's not going to prevent any murders. It might help solve them, and thats if the murderer is to fucking stupid not to file off the serial number and file off the firing pin marks, or hasn't shot several hundred rounds like most gun owners have.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457034]What I'm saying is if it can prevent a serial murderer from killing one more person. How much money is worth spending on that?[/QUOTE] What I'm saying is it can't prevent a murder. It's a lousy, ineffective system that barely works at the best of times and can be circumvented, even exploited(leaving casings from another weapon at the crime scene) laughably easy. Like someone else pointed out, casings at the scene of the crime are not proof enough for a murder themselves. Casings aren't exactly difficult to move, so it doesn't even proof that particular gun was even fired at that spot.

Let's say a serial murder like Patrick Kearney, his Derringer .22 had micro stamping. He left a casing at the scene of a murder. Maybe the police could have cut down on the 21-43 murders he committed. I don't know about you guys, but if you use extremely hard steel and the criminal was unaware of micro stamping. Even with general use of the handgun at a firing range, I believe the stamp would last. With a regular firing pin, I don't imagine any less then occasional firing would damage the pin enough to lose this stamping.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457258]Let's say a serial murder like Patrick Kearney, his Derringer .22 had micro stamping. He left a casing at the scene of a murder. Maybe the police could have cut down on the 21-43 murders he committed.[/QUOTE] Or maybe the stamping would have been illegible. Or maybe the kind of mind that can kill so many people while not getting arrested is the kind of mind that polices his casings when he knows the police can trace them to a gun. This is assuming the gun was A) registered, and B)the stamp worked.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457286]Or maybe the stamping would have been illegible. Or maybe the kind of mind that can kill so many people while not getting arrested is the kind of mind that polices his casings when he knows the police can trace them to a gun. This is assuming the gun was A) registered, and B)the stamp worked.[/QUOTE]But with either of this situations you COULD save up to 42 people. Whats you're price of 42 lives?

My god stop whining, it's to make crime easier to solve, as you no longer need the weapon but only the empty shells. The stupidity of the posts here are astonishing. "WE SHOULD STOP PUTTING SERIAL NUMBERS ON THE GUNS TOO BECAUSE THAT CAN BE REMOVED WITH SIMPLE TOOLS" - Durr hurr

[QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;37457006]or maybe just by regular use you do realise that firing pins are worn down by hitting primers thousands of times[/QUOTE] I don't think the average gangbanger discharges his guns a lot, that's why I cited the other thing as an example.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457258]Let's say a serial murder like Patrick Kearney, his Derringer .22 had micro stamping. He left a casing at the scene of a murder. Maybe the police could have cut down on the 21-43 murders he committed.[/QUOTE] Probably not. If California had a handgun registry then, then maybe they could have traced it to him. But theres no telling whether or not he had his handgun registered.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457307]But with either of this situations you COULD save up to 42 people. Whats you're price of 42 lives?[/QUOTE] The world doesn't work with what could and may help, it works with what does help. This is a useless "maybe lets hope it works".

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;37457314]My god stop whining, it's to make crime easier to solve, as you no longer need the weapon but only the empty shells. The stupidity of the posts here are astonishing. "WE SHOULD STOP PUTTING SERIAL NUMBERS ON THE GUNS TOO BECAUSE THAT CAN BE REMOVED WITH SIMPLE TOOLS" - Durr hurr[/QUOTE] It doesn't make crime easier to solve, it just pisses off and on legal gun owners. We're not saying we should remove serials on all weapons, we're saying we shouldn't have to buy custom ordered firing pins specific to our weapons. It's retarded, all it does is add extra cost to legal gun owners and turn them into criminals when their firing pins wear down.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457307]But with either of this situations you COULD save up to 42 people. Whats you're price of 42 lives?[/QUOTE] Stop with the appeal to emotion fallacy. Just because it COULD save a life in some world where the tech actually works, doesn't mean it is actually going to in ours. If we started making laws prohibiting everything that could save a life, we could ban pretty much everything. What is your access to rapid interstate transit worth? After all, planes can be hijacked.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37457330]Probably not. If California had a handgun registry then, then maybe they could have traced it to him. But theres no telling whether or not he had his handgun registered.[/QUOTE]There are a lot of "what ifs", but if all the stars aligned you could prevent many murders. That's my point.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37457354]The world doesn't work with what could and may help, it works with what does help. This is a useless "maybe lets hope it works".[/QUOTE] It's a useless "maybe lets hope it works" that raises cost to those who buy and shoot weapons. As Gunfox pointed out, something as simple as replacing a firing pin would become drastically more expensive. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ybbat;37457399]There are a lot of "what ifs", but if all the stars aligned you could prevent many murders. That's my point.[/QUOTE] You don't prevent murders by IDing the gun used in a crime. Serial killers are few and far between, and they aren't exactly stupid. If the stars align this could possible make it easier to ID the owner of a gun used in a crime. It wouldn't prevent a thing because it isn't useful until a crime has been committed.

I highly doubt the idea is completely fallible. I'm sure it would contribute to the arrests of at least a few idiots in a hurry.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457399]There are a lot of "what ifs", but if all the stars aligned you could prevent many murders. That's my point.[/QUOTE] So we should piss off all legal gun owners, add even more expenses for us, and turn them into criminals if their firing pins wear down, for a firing pin thats going to wear down after a few shots and won't work a majority of the time, but with a microscopic chance might solve a crime. Sounds like a good idea to me.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457405]It's a useless "maybe lets hope it works" that raises cost to those who buy and shoot weapons. As Gunfox pointed out, something as simple as replacing a firing pin would become drastically more expensive. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] You don't prevent murders by IDing the gun used in a crime. Serial killers are few and far between, and they aren't exactly stupid. If the stars align this could possible make it easier to ID the owner of a gun used in a crime. It wouldn't prevent a thing because it isn't useful until a crime has been committed.[/QUOTE] Prevent future crime by arresting them. If you can arrest them after on murder you prevent them from doing it again. No?

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457442]Prevent future crime by arresting them. If you can arrest them after on murder you prevent them from doing it again. No?[/QUOTE] That assumes they are going to commit another murder. Just because they end up in that shitty situation once doesn't mean it's a habitual thing. Again, this assumes that the tech works. It does not.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37457435]So we should piss off all legal gun owners, add even more expenses for us, and turn them into criminals if their firing pins wear down, for a firing pin thats going to wear down after a few shots and won't work a majority of the time, but with a microscopic chance might solve a crime. Sounds like a good idea to me.[/QUOTE]I don't understand why the off chance that it does prevent a crime is so concerning to you. Besides the wouldn't turn you into a criminal if you're firing pins wore down. Another reason I just thought up is perhaps if they required this the quality of firing pins would go up. Break less often.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457429]I highly doubt the idea is completely fallible. I'm sure it would contribute to the arrests of at least a few idiots in a hurry.[/QUOTE] The only people this might stop is the idiots too stupid to file down the serial numbers on the gun and the pin, and those people are probably going to get caught by more obvious mistakes.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457469]That assumes they are going to commit another murder. Just because they end up in that shitty situation once doesn't mean it's a habitual thing. Again, this assumes that the tech works. It does not.[/QUOTE]Now you're assuming the tech just doesn't work at all. That's quiet the assumption. I don't believe they wouldn't test this before putting it in the field. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37457482]The only people this might stop is the idiots too stupid to file down the serial numbers on the gun and the pin, and those people are probably going to get caught by more obvious mistakes.[/QUOTE]Great! More evidence to prove they were at the scene of the crime?

Or maybe he is the 3rd person to own that gun without reporting the sale because you're not required to in a private sale and the dealer records only have the original purchaser. Then they arrest him but he's not the right guy, and an innocent man has his freedom taken from him. Or maybe he doesn't get charged, but doesn't remember who he sold it to, and the trail goes dead. Besides, it won't be the crook filing down the pin, it'll be the dealer selling it to him illegally. And it's generally accepted that the cost of $12/gun is dramatically downplayed, not to mention this isn't and can never be a preventative measure. Then there's revolvers, that don't leave behind casings, what then? How will micro stamping help solve that? What about old guns? Antiques? Collectibles? None of them have stamping, and there's millions of them. Are you going to force people to get a new firing pin on those? That ruins the collector's value on the guns, and it'll cost probably $100 in parts at least, likely more due to the need for a custom stamp for each gun, and likely $200 in labour to have an FFL install it and register it, because registration is blatantly the goal of this, and registration is a blatant, useless waste of money because, like all these proposals, it can never and will never stop a crime, and in Canada at least it was never able to solve a single murder, not to mention in the US there would be mass non-compliance and therefore the data would be inaccurate and incomplete.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457479]I don't understand why the off chance that it does prevent a crime is so concerning to you. Besides the wouldn't turn you into a criminal if you're firing pins wore down. Another reason I just thought up is perhaps if they required this the quality of firing pins would go up. Break less often.[/QUOTE] This isn't even about pins that break. A stamp small enough to fit on a firing pin would have to be minuscule. It wouldn't take much use at all to render it illegible, even one number being damaged would render it useless. Then you'd have to replace it with a custom made firing pin that would be expensive as hell. You could get a few traceable shots out of a weapon at best, but no more.