Microstamped firing pins may cause gun manufacturers to relocate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457479]I don't understand why the off chance that it does prevent a crime is so concerning to you. Besides the wouldn't turn you into a criminal if you're firing pins wore down. Another reason I just thought up is perhaps if they required this the quality of firing pins would go up. Break less often.[/QUOTE] Given that all firing pins [I]will[/I] wear down, eventually until an expensive replacement is bought, all gun owners would be a criminal. And this is a "microstamp". How the hell do you tell if your pin lost the stamp or not? This will make more lawful gun owners criminals than it would help solve murders. Do we really need to turn more people into criminals like this?

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457494]Now you're assuming the tech just doesn't work at all. That's quiet the assumption. I don't believe they wouldn't test this before putting it in the field. [/QUOTE] It doesn't work because it won't work. The pins [i]will[/i] wear down, just like they do normally. Whether it be after the first 10 bullets or after the first 100, it will wear off eventually. Even if the firing pin hasn't worn off when someone shoots someone else, if they have the serial number, it's useless if the serial on the gun has been filed off, the gun isn't registered, or as dacommie said, if there were non reported sales of the gun. The tech might work, but the system its working for won't work with it. As it's been stated before, these pins aren't for solving crimes. They're made to make lawful gun ownership harder, more expensive, and much more of a hassle. They're trying to prevent gun ownership without an outright ban.

A casing at a crime won't get an arrest anyway. It doesn't prove the weapon was fire at that spot. It doesn't prove the owner of the weapon was at that spot. Without evidence that the owner was there, it's useless. If you have evidence that the owner of the weapon was there, then what do you need the case for? The sole purpose of microstamping is to tie a gun owner to the scene of a crime, and it can't even do that. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ybbat;37457494]Now you're assuming the tech just doesn't work at all. That's quiet the assumption. I don't believe they wouldn't test this before putting it in the field. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] Great! More evidence to prove they were at the scene of the crime?[/QUOTE] You trust the government to properly look into something before using it? Glad to know there really were WMDs in Iraq after all, since the government is apparently incapable of having ulterior motives.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_in_the_United_States Da Commie and dogmachines its a laser not a physical stamp, please read. For the arresting the wrong guy, I assume they'd use a little more evidence then just the casing. Such as eye witnesses or camera feeds. But the laser stamping would put detectives on the right track. Partial serial numbers could limit the list to 10 people if it were missing a single number, assuming the guns were registered on some kinda of list you could cross reference with the guns caliber and model.

Hey. Guess what. Laser etching can get worn down too.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457546]A casing at a crime won't get an arrest anyway. It doesn't prove the weapon was fire at that spot. It doesn't prove the owner of the weapon was at that spot. Without evidence that the owner was there, it's useless. If you have evidence that the owner of the weapon was there, then what do you need the case for? The sole purpose of microstamping is to tie a gun owner to the scene of a crime, and it can't even do that. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] You trust the government to properly look into something before using it? Glad to know there really were WMDs in Iraq after all, since the government is apparently incapable of having ulterior motives.[/QUOTE]Apples and oranges, one is domestic the other is foreign.

If they have eye witnesses and camera feeds then casings are completely irrelevant. Casings can point to a person all day long, but if you don't have physical evidence that puts the person at that location, they mean fuck-all. If you have physical evidence they were there, then the casing doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457258]Let's say a serial murder like Patrick Kearney, his Derringer .22 had micro stamping. He left a casing at the scene of a murder. Maybe the police could have cut down on the 21-43 murders he committed. I don't know about you guys, but if you use extremely hard steel and the criminal was unaware of micro stamping. Even with general use of the handgun at a firing range, I believe the stamp would last. With a regular firing pin, I don't imagine any less then occasional firing would damage the pin enough to lose this stamping.[/QUOTE] Sorry to bring this one back up, but that wouldn't work, as derringers don't dispense spent casings

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457581]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_in_the_United_States Da Commie and dogmachines its a laser not a physical stamp, please read. For the arresting the wrong guy, I assume they'd use a little more evidence then just the casing. Such as eye witnesses or camera feeds. But the laser stamping would put detectives on the right track. Partial serial numbers could limit the list to 10 people if it were missing a single number, assuming the guns were registered on some kinda of list you could cross reference with the guns caliber and model.[/QUOTE] You're assuming that all firearms are registered, guess what, they're not. If a career criminal is buying a gun, he's not buying it legally. The person hey buys it from would probably file off the serial on the side and replaced or filed off the firing pin. If you buy it legally and register it, and not fire any rounds up until the crime, a casing alone without any other evidence is not enough. If theres eye witnesses, video evidence, then that casing is useless in the first place.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457593]Hey. Guess what. Laser etching can get worn down too.[/QUOTE]Could use harder pins. How many shots do you figure would have to be fired in order to remove all traces of the micro stamp, what if the stamp was deeply carved. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping[/url] This also suggest the price could be between $0.50 and $8.50 depending on quantity. So your mass produced firearms would cost a minimal amount more

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457597]Apples and oranges, one is domestic the other is foreign.[/QUOTE] I was unaware we had a foreign government and a domestic government.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457663]Could use harder pins[/QUOTE] oh, hear that guys? We can just use harder pins. Problem solved.

two of my guns still have the original firing pin. anyone who shoots a reasonable amount has had to replace their firing pin at some point. I'm pretty confident that this is just to drive up the price of guns.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;37457650]Sorry to bring this one back up, but that wouldn't work, as derringers don't dispense spent casings[/QUOTE]Fair point, you got me on that one. You can see a person and not know who they are, but if you find that person again, after a trace of said bullet casing, you could recognize them. I'm currently looking for the patent.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457663]Could use harder pins. How many shots do you figure would have to be fired in order to remove all traces of the micro stamp, what if the stamp was deeply carved. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping[/url] This also suggest the price could be between $0.50 and $8.50 depending on quantity. So your mass produced firearms would cost a minimal amount more[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter how deep the carving is, it's the edges that matter. Harder pins would just fragment around the edges of the engraving and be damaged faster. It's pointless hassle for useless evidence that would be left at a crime scene once in a blue moon and be worthless even then. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ybbat;37457689]Fair point, you got me on that one. You can see a person and not know who they are, but if you find that person again, after a trace of said bullet casing, you could recognize them. I'm currently looking for the patent.[/QUOTE] Good luck arresting someone with a bullet casing as your only evidence.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457663]Could use harder pins. How many shots do you figure would have to be fired in order to remove all traces of the micro stamp, what if the stamp was deeply carved. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping[/url] This also suggest the price could be between $0.50 and $8.50 depending on quantity. So your mass produced firearms would cost a minimal amount more[/QUOTE] Harder pins = more expensive materials = more production cost = more product cost. Fifty cents is a lot for production costs when it stacks. Do you realize that out of every dollar made out of a product for any business, roughly 90 cents of it goes into expenses?

You're making a lot of assumptions and pushing for a lot more useless gun control. If the stamp is imprinted with a laser that is on the pin, rather than being an imprint lasered on the pin, then the cost of $12/gun is blown right out of the water, not to mention how much of a hassle having that apparatus in the pin would be and devising a way to power it. This also makes it much easier to break. The bottom line is this won't work, all it is, is another hassle for legal gun owners to attempt to make gun ownership impractically expensive to marginalize gun owners so they have less of a voting presence, and therefore congress will see less opposition to gun control bills because there are less people who own guns to oppose the bill because owning a gun is to difficult, too expensive, and runs too much of a risk of being arrested for a paper crime like having your stamp wear down or failing to register your gun, and US prisons are crowded enough with people who committed a non-crime, we don't need to create more non-crimes to plug prisons up with target shooters, hunters, and self-defense practitioners who forget to fill out a form right or whose gun has worn its stamp off through regular use.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37457671]I was unaware we had a foreign government and a domestic government.[/QUOTE] Well, this law is a state law and the war with Iraq was the federal government. Politicians are the same all around though.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37457671]I was unaware we had a foreign government and a domestic government.[/QUOTE]One is foreign policy, one is a domestic law. The pin is also has radial bar code like structures that could be used the same way. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sqpzBDb3Ys&feature=relmfu[/url] Increasing the quality of the firing pin could be win win. Just like how replaceable parts are meant to have a limited life time, I imagine so are firing pins.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457792]One is foreign policy, one is a domestic law. [/QUOTE] You're saying that just because we're inept at foreign policy we're not inept at domestic law. That makes no sense at all. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ybbat;37457792]The pin is also has radial bar code like structures that could be used the same way. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sqpzBDb3Ys&feature=relmfu[/url] Increasing the quality of the firing pin could be win win. Just like how replaceable parts are meant to have a limited life time, I imagine so are firing pins.[/QUOTE] That'll just make the replacement parts just more expensive too. And you haven't commented on the fact that if your pin wears down, you're now a criminal. What of that?

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;37457715]You're making a lot of assumptions and pushing for a lot more useless gun control. If the stamp is imprinted with a laser that is on the pin, rather than being an imprint lasered on the pin, then the cost of $12/gun is blown right out of the water, not to mention how much of a hassle having that apparatus in the pin would be and devising a way to power it. This also makes it much easier to break. The bottom line is this won't work, all it is, is another hassle for legal gun owners to attempt to make gun ownership impractically expensive to marginalize gun owners so they have less of a voting presence, and therefore congress will see less opposition to gun control bills because there are less people who own guns to oppose the bill because owning a gun is to difficult, too expensive, and runs too much of a risk of being arrested for a paper crime like having your stamp wear down or failing to register your gun, and US prisons are crowded enough with people who committed a non-crime, we don't need to create more non-crimes to plug prisons up with target shooters, hunters, and self-defense practitioners who forget to fill out a form right or whose gun has worn its stamp off through regular use.[/QUOTE] You need to read the article again. A laser embosses the serial number on the head of the pin, and also creates a series of ridges around the pin that leave a radial barcode in the impression.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457792]One is foreign policy, one is a domestic law. The pin is also has radial bar code like structures that could be used the same way. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sqpzBDb3Ys&feature=relmfu[/url] Increasing the quality of the firing pin could be win win. Just like how replaceable parts are meant to have a limited life time, I imagine so are firing pins.[/QUOTE] The firing pins I use now are fine dammit, I don't want to pay out the ass for a custom tooled one. The law is bull shit, it won't work. All it is, is more BS gun control to try and make gun ownership more of a hassle.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37457809]You're saying that just because we're inept at foreign policy we're not inept at domestic law. That makes no sense at all. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] That'll just make the replacement parts just more expensive too. And you haven't commented on the fact that if your pin wears down, you're now a criminal. What of that?[/QUOTE] I highly doubt that the pin would wear down enough that the radial serial number would disappear.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457853]I highly doubt that the pin would wear down enough that the radial serial number would disappear.[/QUOTE] It doesn't have to disappear. If one part of it is damaged, it's useless.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37457846]The firing pins I use now are fine dammit, I don't want to pay out the ass for a custom tooled one. The law is bull shit, it won't work. All it is, is more BS gun control to try and make gun ownership more of a hassle.[/QUOTE]Not really tooled, when they are manufactured they are just flashed with the laser and it's done. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;37457911]It doesn't have to disappear. If one part of it is damaged, it's useless.[/QUOTE] Partial license plate numbers can lead back to positive ID's. One part is damaged you search between the two possible options. (With the Radial designs, Licenses would have 10 or so, but then they can cross refrence the type of car/color.)

I'd also like to point out once again that even if this tech works perfectly it isn't going to prevent any murders or get any convictions. It won't prove the owner was at the scene of the crime on it's own, and if you can prove the owner was there then it's not even useful evidence. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] If the number/barcode is laser-embossed then every time the weapon is fired, the mark will shrink. The force of the pin hitting will cause the metal to spread inwards, filling the marks. As everyone keeps saying, it will be useless after a few uses. Laser etching makes zero difference.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37457930]I'd also like to point out once again that even if this tech works perfectly it isn't going to prevent any murders or get any convictions. It won't prove the owner was at the scene of the crime on it's own, and if you can prove the owner was there then it's not even useful evidence.[/QUOTE]Let's say the offender's gun was proven to be at the scene of the crime and he has no alibi, and he was seen in the area, then that's enough to bring him in I would imagine. With an arrest you can prevent future murders dogmachines.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457853]I highly doubt that the pin would wear down enough that the radial serial number would disappear.[/QUOTE] You'd be surprised how quickly a small piece of metal striking another piece of metal that causes a small explosion, can wear down. Those engravings will wear off, and they'll wear off quickly. If the Government wants to send me a new firing pin after every 10 shots, then fine. But I'm not paying for a new firing pin when I don't need one. I'm just glad I don't live in the states that are supporting this.

[QUOTE=Ybbat;37457258]Let's say a serial murder like Patrick Kearney, his Derringer .22 had micro stamping. He left a casing at the scene of a murder. Maybe the police could have cut down on the 21-43 murders he committed. I don't know about you guys, but if you use extremely hard steel and the criminal was unaware of micro stamping. Even with general use of the handgun at a firing range, I believe the stamp would last. With a regular firing pin, I don't imagine any less then occasional firing would damage the pin enough to lose this stamping.[/QUOTE] He wouldn't leave a case, seeing as derringers are almost universally break action. Yet another situation in which this is useless. Furthermore rimfire cartridges are particularly difficult to microstamp due to the nature of how rimfire bullets work. Getting consistent prints, even with a fully functional gun, is very difficult.

Fair, Trunk, but the radial marks are on the sides of the pin, and like a pencil when you use it, there is still a few cm's behind it with the same mark on it. [editline]29th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;37458005]He wouldn't leave a case, seeing as derringers are almost universally break action. Yet another situation in which this is useless. Furthermore rimfire cartridges are particularly difficult to microstamp due to the nature of how rimfire bullets work. Getting consistent prints, even with a fully functional gun, is very difficult.[/QUOTE]In the video they explained and showed how this would work aswell. I'm sorry that that example didn't work. I don't have extensive knowledge of every gun created.