ACLU releases app for secretly recording interactions with the police - Polidicks

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777241]You consent to being recorded when you enter a private business. As for helicopters and unmanned drones, it is illegal in my state at least to use them to survey the public since a person has to know they are being recorded to give implied consent. I am against it as well, anyways. When did I ever imply I wasn't? Yea, you can record police officers. All you have to say is "I'm recording you," and the officer has given consent. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to record someone in public, only that they should be made aware that they are being recorded.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but if officers knew that it was possible that they'd be recorded at any time it might make them a bit more afraid to abuse their position of power. Why should we have to tell people that society entrusts with the power to hurt and harm and take away the freedom of other people that we're recording them?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36776965]people who care about civil rights?[/QUOTE] I meant that as in "It's the ACLU, do they really care which OS is better?" not "The ACLU is useless, who cares."

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777241]You consent to being recorded when you enter a private business. As for helicopters and unmanned drones, it is illegal in my state at least to use them to survey the public since a person has to know they are being recorded to give implied consent. I am against it as well, anyways. When did I ever imply I wasn't? Yea, you can record police officers. All you have to say is "I'm recording you," and the officer has given consent. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to record someone in public, only that they should be made aware that they are being recorded.[/QUOTE] the reason i'm against telling a cop you're recording him as well, it invalidates the benefits of recording him in the first place, and does nothing to shape up the police force as a whole, rather it just makes your isolated encounter safer. if an officer isn't told they're being recorded they will act naturally and as they would with anyone else. being told they're recorded means that an otherwise abusive police officer who has presumably abused others, or who will continue to do so in the future, will shape up for you alone. you may be off the hook in terms of avoiding an abusive encounter, but in the end anyone else without a recording device is subject to whatever the officer feels he can get away with. if people could record without informing them, there'd at least be a sense of caution, knowing you could be recorded at any time without knowing it, and cops in general would shape up as a result. and why does a police officer deserve to know they're being recorded in the first place? what makes it so vital, what makes this fledgling sense of privacy more important than the right of the citizens to record and report public servants when they are abusive?

Not really seeing why it's illegal to secretly record officers on duty, that's pretty much the only way you can catch them doing illegal shit without getting your face caved in with a nightstick

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777305]the reason i'm against telling a cop you're recording him as well, it invalidates the benefits of recording him in the first place, and does nothing to shape up the police force as a whole, rather it just makes your isolated encounter safer. if an officer isn't told they're being recorded they will act naturally and as they would with anyone else. being told they're recorded means that an otherwise abusive police officer who has presumably abused others, or who will continue to do so in the future, will shape up for you alone. you may be off the hook in terms of avoiding an abusive encounter, but in the end anyone else without a recording device is subject to whatever the officer feels he can get away with. if people could record without informing them, there'd at least be a sense of caution, knowing you could be recorded at any time without knowing it, and cops in general would shape up as a result. and why does a police officer deserve to know they're being recorded in the first place? what makes it so vital, what makes this fledgling sense of privacy more important than the right of the citizens to record and report public servants when they are abusive?[/QUOTE] If we recorded people in public without notifying them, maybe society in general would shape up. You can't consistently be for one and not for the other, unless you want to make the claim that people do not have equal protection according to the law and constitution.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777499]If we recorded people in public without notifying them, maybe society in general would shape up. You can't consistently be for one and not for the other, unless you want to make the claim that people do not have equal protection according to the law and constitution.[/QUOTE] i can actually, i believe police officers, as a countermeasure for the insane amount of power, authority and credibility they have, should forfeit their right to be informed of being recorded in public. sorry if that's too much to bear but i think the rewards greatly outweigh privacy concerns who want the authority to beat you to death if you do something wrong. "society in general" doesn't have the authority to arrest you, to confiscate your property, to search your person, to assault/kill you, or to issue expensive tickets and fines. and constitution never gives you the right to not be recorded while in public, why do you have to argue the most asinine, "devils advocate" points at all time? you never say anything remotely agreeable or logical you just desperately try to uphold what is (with good reason) the unpopular opinion. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] do you think that being able to be recorded without your notification is an unreasonable request of police officers? and why? why do you value the privacy of an on-duty police officer in a public space more than the right of the people to monitor and regulate their law enforcement system? this is what i really want to know

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777555]i can actually, i believe police officers, as a countermeasure for the insane amount of power, authority and credibility they have, should forfeit their right to be informed of being recorded in public. sorry if that's too much to bear but i think the rewards greatly outweigh privacy concerns who want the authority to beat you to death if you do something wrong. "society in general" doesn't have the authority to arrest you, to confiscate your property, to search your person, to assault/kill you, or to issue expensive tickets and fines. and constitution never gives you the right to not be recorded while in public, why do you have to argue the most asinine, "devils advocate" points at all time? you never say anything remotely agreeable or logical you just desperately try to uphold what is (with good reason) the unpopular opinion.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but that is too much for me to bear. People should not be treated inconsistently under the law. Either the law protects all of us or none of us. To say that certain groups should be treated as a lesser class because they have responsibility takes away from the idea of liberty and justice. It's practical to say that you should be able to record police officers without their knowledge, I'll give you that. However, it is also practical to take away the 4th amendment from a law enforcement perspective. Neither of these things are moral. We should not take the practical road when it undermines the tenets of justice and a liberal society. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;36777555] do you think that being able to be recorded without your notification is an unreasonable request of police officers? and why? why do you value the privacy of an on-duty police officer in a public space more than the right of the people to monitor and regulate their law enforcement system? this is what i really want to know[/QUOTE] No, I value the idea of justice. I already said I don't necessarily think it's right to record anyone without their knowledge, but that's just that. I am not sure how I feel about that. However, I will be damned before I see us receding back into the idea of creating groups of 2nd class citizens.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777594]I'm sorry but that is too much for me to bear. People should not be treated inconsistently under the law. Either the law protects all of us or none of us. To say that certain groups should be treated as a lesser class because they have responsibility takes away from the idea of liberty and justice. It's practical to say that you should be able to record police officers without their knowledge, I'll give you that. However, it is also practical to take away the 4th amendment from a law enforcement perspective. Neither of these things are moral. We should not take the practical road when it undermines the tenets of justice and a liberal society. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] No, I value the idea of justice. I already said I don't necessarily think it's right to record anyone without their knowledge, but that's just that. I am not sure how I feel about that. However, I will be damned before I see us receding back into the idea of creating groups of 2nd class citizens.[/QUOTE] lmao "2nd class citizens" wanting to record cops without their knowledge to prevent them from beating the shit out of you and verbally abusing you apparently means we're back to an indian caste system ok, if everyone is treated equally and has the same rights, why do i not have the right to shoot a cop if he is dangerous or assaulting me? why do i not have the right to take away his right to freedom by detaining and arresting him if i catch him with some weed or breaking some other law? why do i not have the right to pull someone over or lay a spike strip to blow their tires out? why do i not have the right to fine someone hundreds of dollars or put them in prison if they refuse to pay? because it's completely impractical and fucking [B]insane[/B]. you don't value the idea of justice, you value the idea of playing devils advocate and ignoring the fact that you're a hypocrite leaking double standards everywhere you go. strange how you say you're against police using helis, drones, lasers, etc to monitor you without your knowledge, yet you've posted in [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1196738]none[/url] of the recent news [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1197104]threads[/url] regarding them. guess you just missed them and luckily noticed the one where citizens were finally getting on even ground with police. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] oh and about "forfeiting your right to privacy when you enter a private business". so private places can take your rights away, but in a public setting that's "too much to bear"? yeah makes sense to me dude

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777024]I don't think it's necessarily right to record anyone without their knowledge.[/QUOTE] Why not? It happens literally thousands of times a day with little to no consequence. Recording cops who commit corrupt acts is biggest way to catch them.

tbh every time i watch a youtube video where someone is in time square recording a video of their friends at a cafe, and there are innocent bystanders walking through the frame, completely unaware of the crimes being perpetrated by the man holding the camera, i look at my crying eagle poster labeled "freedom" and shed a single tear for every passerby i see.

[quote]you don't value the idea of justice, you value the idea of playing devils advocate and ignoring the fact that you're a hypocrite leaking double standards everywhere you go.[/quote] Glad to know you have no more valid points. [quote]strange how you say you're against police using helis, drones, lasers, etc to monitor you without your knowledge, yet you've posted in [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1196738"]none[/URL] of the recent news [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1197104"]threads[/URL] regarding them. guess you just missed them and luckily noticed the one where citizens were finally getting on even ground with police.[/quote] Yea, I did miss them. This is the only new thread I've read in SH lately. It's also pretty apparent that I disagree with those things so why would I post in them saying "Oh yea, I agree with everything that has been said 50 times before me." it adds nothing to the discussion. I also know nothing about the technology so I can't really discuss anything about that. Why do you have such a keen interest in my posting habits anyways? Would you like me to create an RSS feed for you so you can stay kept up on all the breaking Yawmwen news? [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36777733]Why not? It happens literally thousands of times a day with little to no consequence. Recording cops who commit corrupt acts is biggest way to catch them.[/QUOTE] I'm just not sure about it is all. There are arguments for both sides and I have yet to make up an informed opinion about it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777751]Glad to know you have no more valid points. Yea, I did miss them. This is the only new thread I've read in SH lately. It's also pretty apparent that I disagree with those things so why would I post in them saying "Oh yea, I agree with everything that has been said 50 times before me." it adds nothing to the discussion. I also know nothing about the technology so I can't really discuss anything about that. Why do you have such a keen interest in my posting habits anyway? Would you like me to create an RSS feed for you so you can stay kept up on all the breaking Yawmwen news? [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] I'm just not sure about it is all. There are arguments for both sides and I have yet to make up an informed opinion about it.[/QUOTE] thanks for ignoring literally every point i made in my post and skipping straight to "you have no more points" no i don't need an RSS feed, posts like these keep me disappointed and miserable enough as it is

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777769]thanks for ignoring literally every point i made in my post and skipping straight to "you have no more points" [/QUOTE] You had no points in that post as soon as you insulted me directly. You're terrible at arguing.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777678]lmao "2nd class citizens" wanting to record cops without their knowledge to prevent them from beating the shit out of you and verbally abusing you apparently means we're back to an indian caste system ok, if everyone is treated equally and has the same rights, why do i not have the right to shoot a cop if he is dangerous or assaulting me? why do i not have the right to take away his right to freedom by detaining and arresting him if i catch him with some weed or breaking some other law? why do i not have the right to pull someone over or lay a spike strip to blow their tires out? why do i not have the right to fine someone hundreds of dollars or put them in prison if they refuse to pay? because it's completely impractical and fucking [B]insane[/B]. [del]you don't value the idea of justice, you value the idea of playing devils advocate and ignoring the fact that you're a hypocrite leaking double standards everywhere you go.[/del] strange how you say you're against police using helis, drones, lasers, etc to monitor you without your knowledge, yet you've posted in [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1196738]none[/url] of the recent news [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1197104]threads[/url] regarding them. guess you just missed them and luckily noticed the one where citizens were finally getting on even ground with police. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] oh and about "forfeiting your right to privacy when you enter a private business". so private places can take your rights away, but in a public setting that's "too much to bear"? yeah makes sense to me dude[/QUOTE] here try responding to this post, i trimmed the fat a bit so you could read it [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36777777]You had no points in that post as soon as you insulted me directly. You're terrible at arguing.[/QUOTE] lol "im going to conveniently ignore everything you said because you called me a hypocrite"

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777778] lol "im going to conveniently ignore everything you said because you called me a hypocrite"[/QUOTE] You're trying to bait me and use posts I didn't make as an argument to invalidate me. So yea, I am going to conveniently ignore everything you said because your argument was flimsy enough without you resorting to demeaning your opponent for some feeling of smug superiority. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] We can talk about this another time when you've settled down. Now is not the time, though.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777777]You had no points in that post as soon as you insulted me directly. You're terrible at arguing.[/QUOTE] I like how in his coherent point, you bypassed every single point her made, and just went after the fact that he called you a hypocrite, which you TOTALLY are, then you say he's terrible at arguing.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777804]You're trying to bait me and use posts I didn't make as an argument to invalidate me. So yea, I am going to conveniently ignore everything you said because your argument was flimsy enough without you resorting to demeaning your opponent for some feeling of smug superiority.[/QUOTE] if i say sorry will you continue to embarrass yourself by trying (?) to respond to the points i make (like why police officers have more rights than citizens, why private property means your rights are void, etc..)?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777804]You're trying to bait me and use posts I didn't make as an argument to invalidate me. So yea, I am going to conveniently ignore everything you said because your argument was flimsy enough without you resorting to demeaning your opponent for some feeling of smug superiority. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] We can talk about this another time when you've settled down. Now is not the time, though.[/QUOTE] That's one way to say you lost.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36777821]if i say sorry will you continue to embarrass yourself by trying (?) to respond to the points i make (like why police officers have more rights than citizens, why private property means your rights are void, etc..)?[/QUOTE] Nope, but thanks for the offer. Maybe when you're not so hostile, if that will ever happen.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777856]Nope, but thanks for the offer. Maybe when you're not so hostile, if that will ever happen.[/QUOTE] Why not, like, address his points and stop being a giant blubbering baby who can't take being called a hypocrite (when you totally are)

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36777865]Why not, like, address his points and stop being a giant blubbering baby who can't take being called a hypocrite (when you totally are)[/QUOTE] It isn't about being able to take it. It's the fact that any chance of persuasion or actual discussion goes out the window when the other person is so stubborn that they need to lash out against their opponent. I should know, I have been the same way a lot of the time. [editline]15th July 2012[/editline] It's a waste of breath to explain something to someone that won't listen.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777886]It isn't about being able to take it. It's the fact that any chance of persuasion or actual discussion goes out the window when the other person is so stubborn that they need to lash out against their opponent. I should know, I have been the same way a lot of the time.[/QUOTE] maybe instead of trying to predict the future you should just respond or stop posting about it i'll be more than happy to admit when i'm wrong but it's unimaginably difficult when you literally won't even tell me why

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36777886] It's a waste of breath to explain something to someone that won't listen.[/QUOTE] Yawmen I don't know if you have this thing where you won't listen or you know not to. I always wondered what went through that desolate mind of yours when you decided to argue the most asinine points. In a thread about the colour of the sky you'd argue against it.

This app is a reactionary measure against something the police have been doing since pretty much the advent of handheld video recorders. That is, abusing their power and then using that power to silence any kind of opposition. Personally I believe that as soon as you are in a public space you automatically consent to being video taped or recorded, and this goes double for public servants like police officers.

[QUOTE]An app for Apple iOS devices is in the works, the ACLU says.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't making the app hide itself and function in the background on iOS be almost impossible without assistance from Apple due to iOS suspending background apps? I may be a few iOS versions behind and I've never owned an iOS device, but that's the last I heard about iOS "multitasking."