A Queensland restaurant starts enormous controversy over their prohibition of Muslims in their premi - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Killergam;46775294]It's a religion, not a race. Can't you tell the difference? What if it said, sorry no Christians? Would you deem that as racist?[/QUOTE] Afaik religion is protected under the racism part in the US. Forgot how exactly the wording is though.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;46775723]One of my friends pointed out on Facebook:[/QUOTE] Even if the area is ethnically homogeneous, that's no reason to say 'No *insert group of people that don't live in your area her*'. If some people in a rural area of Japan put up a sign saying "Sorry no Christians" (apart from, y'know, in Japanese), it would still be a dickhead thing to do even if the likelihood is that no Christian will ever walk by that place.

[QUOTE=UberMensch;46776652]I agree with this, seems like people have just gotten on their high horse over a badly written joke. I believe I read it in the way the writer intended and did find it quite funny.[/QUOTE] Yes but then "Sorry Muslims" would be more appropriate don't you think? I mean I completely understand your point but I think this is more than just poorly worded.

Someone post the XKCD free speech comic.

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;46775135]Still a dick move.[/QUOTE] Its a dick move but ill defend any business owners right(if they have them) that they can deny whoever the fuck they want for whatever reason at anytime. They can be judged by everyone else by the way they handle it. If you own the business, the building its in, and the property its on, why shouldnt you have the right to deny anyone you want? Your business is not a right to people. I mean being an openly racist/prejudice business owner is not exactly a positive business decision, why not let idiots be idiots?

And here I thought he was making a joke about how Muslims are religiously motivated not to drink alcohol, hence why he wrote it right after making a joke about beer. And his tiny statement on the matter makes me think that is exactly what he was doing.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46778230]Its a dick move but ill defend any business owners right(if they have them) that they can deny whoever the fuck they want for whatever reason at anytime. They can be judged by everyone else by the way they handle it. If you own the business, the building its in, and the property its on, why shouldnt you have the right to deny anyone you want? Your business is not a right to people. I mean being an openly racist/prejudice business owner is not exactly a positive business decision, why not let idiots be idiots?[/QUOTE] While it is very hard to find fault with an argument like this (well not really but still it is a relatively good argument, and something I agree with on some level) I think there has to be certain limits to what you can and cannot do. If nothing else "it is private so they can do whatever they want" is a great way to get the majority to force any/everyone else out of a certain place. Think about small towns where you convince the local convenience store owner to not serve a certain group of people. What if there are no alternatives? The solution is not always "well they should start their own store" or "if they want to make more money they will cater to everyone".

[QUOTE=kidwithsword;46775163]It seems like the "Sorry no Muslims" is referring to the beer, a reference to the common belief that Muslims don't drink alcohol. It doesn't say Muslims aren't allowed into the establishment. Shame on the owner for making such a vague statement targeting a specific religion, but shame on the people readying their torches and pitchforks who are reading into this far more than they should.[/QUOTE] That's what my first thought was. But that goes without saying so why write it. A distasteful bit of cheeky jeering is all it is

[IMG]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-7eNRB2_0Q/hqdefault.jpg[/IMG] "Nah guys store owners can ban anyone they want."

[QUOTE=Fetret;46778285]While it is very hard to find fault with an argument like this (well not really but still it is a relatively good argument, and something I agree with on some level) I think there has to be certain limits to what you can and cannot do. If nothing else "it is private so they can do whatever they want" is a great way to get the majority to force any/everyone else out of a certain place. Think about small towns where you convince the local convenience store owner to not serve a certain group of people. What if there are no alternatives? The solution is not always "well they should start their own store" or "if they want to make more money they will cater to everyone".[/QUOTE] Yeah in that situation I can see why there needs to be some laws to prevent business owners from fucking over people as hard as possible. Its a pretty big double edged sword. I think business owners deserve the right to deny anyone for whatever reason, yet at the same time this could be used far more maliciously. Really it just comes down to the individual situation at hand in my opinion.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46778230]Its a dick move but ill defend any business owners right(if they have them) that they can deny whoever the fuck they want for whatever reason at anytime. They can be judged by everyone else by the way they handle it. If you own the business, the building its in, and the property its on, why shouldnt you have the right to deny anyone you want? Your business is not a right to people. I mean being an openly racist/prejudice business owner is not exactly a positive business decision, why not let idiots be idiots?[/QUOTE] "I defend the rights of business owners to be bigoted fucks because ???" Why are you apologizing for racists, you gain nothing and you only look like a racist yourself

Holy fuck, the sign isnt in giant lettering saying "NO MUSLIMS ALLOWED", its part of the joke referencing Jesus directly above it.

[QUOTE=capgun;46779444]Holy fuck, the sign isnt in giant lettering saying "NO MUSLIMS ALLOWED", its part of the joke referencing Jesus directly above it.[/QUOTE] Tell me how (Sorry no muslims) is a joke please, it's not like it's (sorry muslims) or something, it's literally saying "Sorry, we don't want muslims in here"

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46778230]Its a dick move but ill defend any business owners right(if they have them) that they can deny whoever the fuck they want for whatever reason at anytime. They can be judged by everyone else by the way they handle it. If you own the business, the building its in, and the property its on, why shouldnt you have the right to deny anyone you want? Your business is not a right to people. I mean being an openly racist/prejudice business owner is not exactly a positive business decision, why not let idiots be idiots?[/QUOTE] b-but muh rights Explain to us why this should be a right. This isn't harmless--when you arbitrarily deny people the opportunity to use your services in a society where private enterprise provides your quality of life, you measurably make other people's lives worse. It's not hurting anyone in this particular instance, but this isn't the only instance, is it. And good job suggesting that bigotry is economically discouraged. Remember that when it broke a couple years ago that Chick-fil-a was donating to anti-gay-marriage groups, their profits actually went [I]up[/I]? Meanwhile, a couple months ago, a dairy company in Australia had to capitulate to a boycott that happened because the company was trying to make their products more Muslim-friendly. You can bet your ass that right now there are a bunch of Australians who are planning to go to this restaurant just to show solidarity against the Muslim menace.

[QUOTE=Starlight 456;46779250]"I defend the rights of business owners to be bigoted fucks because ???" Why are you apologizing for racists, you gain nothing and you only look like a racist yourself[/QUOTE] First of all, thats just you painting that stupid picture in your head that in any way shape or form what I said would be racist. I defend the right because its their right as business+property owners? I see that little American flag under your name. We have a first amendment being freedom of speech/expression/religion. These business owners can express and say whatever the fuck they want and ill respect that right. Doesnt mean I have to respect the person or what they say do. Doesnt mean I need to respect their business. It also doesnt mean they cant or wont face any backlash from people, which this thread is proof enough shit like this DOES warrant backlash. That doesnt mean I respect racists pretty sure my last line in that quote was me calling them idiots, you really enjoy cherry picking shit I say and skewing it for some fake reality you like to make up. Fuck off with guilt by association and an extremely bad and lazy association, I defend the rights I have for the people who have the same. Keyword is rights by the way in case you get lost in reading a forum post again.

[QUOTE=Starlight 456;46779749]Tell me how (Sorry no muslims) is a joke please, it's not like it's (sorry muslims) or something, it's literally saying "Sorry, we don't want muslims in here"[/QUOTE] [quote]"2000 years ago Jesus Christ made headlines turning water into wine ... the tradition continues ...We turn money into beer (sorry no Muslims)."[/quote] Sorry, I don't see the bit about telling muslims to go fuck themselves. I see a reference to Jesus turning water into wine among his followers, which muslims aren't, and them making a crack about turning money into beer. Maybe the phrasing could be better. Maybe I'm missing some key subtext, like the owner secretly being a white supremacist or something, but I'm seriously not seeing some horrible racism.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780050]First of all, thats just you painting that stupid picture in your head that in any way shape or form what I said would be racist. I defend the right because its their right as business+property owners? I see that little American flag under your name. We have a first amendment being freedom of speech/expression/religion. These business owners can express and say whatever the fuck they want and ill respect that right. Doesnt mean I have to respect the person or what they say do. Doesnt mean I need to respect their business. It also doesnt mean they cant or wont face any backlash from people, which this thread is proof enough shit like this DOES warrant backlash. That doesnt mean I respect racists pretty sure my last line in that quote was me calling them idiots, you really enjoy cherry picking shit I say and skewing it for some fake reality you like to make up. Fuck off with guilt by association and an extremely bad and lazy association, I defend the rights I have for the people who have the same. Keyword is rights by the way in case you get lost in reading a forum post again.[/QUOTE] except they're providing a service if you lived out in the sticks, and the only doctor near you didn't offer his services to blacks, would you still support his right to express and say whatever he wants

[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;46780032]b-but muh rights Explain to us why this should be a right. This isn't harmless--when you arbitrarily deny people the opportunity to use your services in a society where private enterprise provides your quality of life, you measurably make other people's lives worse. It's not hurting anyone in this particular instance, but this isn't the only instance, is it. And good job suggesting that bigotry is economically discouraged. Remember that when it broke a couple years ago that Chick-fil-a was donating to anti-gay-marriage groups, their profits actually went [I]up[/I]? Meanwhile, a couple months ago, a dairy company in Australia had to capitulate to a boycott that happened because the company was trying to make their products more Muslim-friendly. You can bet your ass that right now there are a bunch of Australians who are planning to go to this restaurant just to show solidarity against the Muslim menace.[/QUOTE] Its a right because a business is not YOUR right sadly, you didnt make it, you dont own it, you didnt work for it. If some guy built a shop all on his own and wanted to keep teens out, why shouldnt he be allowed? Its all his property? Should the government tell you what you can and cant do with shit you own? Can I just come to your house? Fuck around on your property? Mind if I just come in and use the shower everyday, I mean what right do you have to deny me? Its property and a building you own, its also private. Why should it be any different if you decide to sell shit? Can you answer that. [editline]23rd December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=LordCrypto;46780071]except they're providing a service if you lived out in the sticks, and the only doctor near you didn't offer his services to blacks, would you still support his right to express and say whatever he wants[/QUOTE] Yes I would respect his Rights because I have the exact same? I would not however respect him or what hes doing and he would be a massive piece of shit. Why is this shit so hard to understand lol. Sorry I like to respect the rights of people who have the exact same as me. Would you not want equality with these rights? And why not and what would you do? Do you really want to be a hypocrite when it comes to equal laws and rights?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780088]Its a right because a business is not YOUR right sadly, you didnt make it, you dont own it, you didnt work for it. If some guy built a shop all on his own and wanted to keep teens out, why shouldnt he be allowed? Its all his property? Should the government tell you what you can and cant do with shit you own? Can I just come to your house? Fuck around on your property? Mind if I just come in and use the shower everyday, I mean what right do you have to deny me? Its property and a building you own, its also private. Why should it be any different if you decide to sell shit? Can you answer that. [editline]23rd December 2014[/editline] Yes I would respect his Rights because I have the exact same? I would not however respect him or what hes doing and he would be a massive piece of shit. Why is this shit so hard to understand lol. Sorry I like to respect the rights of people who have the exact same as me. Would you not want equality with these rights? And why not and what would you do?[/QUOTE] so when black people get sick and die because the only doctor nearby is like "ew darkies" you'd still be supporting him? go back to stormfront please

[QUOTE=capgun;46780054]Sorry, I don't see the bit about telling muslims to go fuck themselves. I see a reference to Jesus turning water into wine among his followers, which muslims aren't, and them making a crack about turning money into beer. Maybe the phrasing could be better. Maybe I'm missing some key subtext, like the owner secretly being a white supremacist or something, but I'm seriously not seeing some horrible racism.[/QUOTE] If that were the case, this guy would have written "Sorry Muslims" on there, which would have been a weird way to phrase it (especially considering Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet), but saying "Sorry no Muslims" sounds much more like "Sorry[,] no Muslims [allowed]". This is especially important considering Australia just recently had its first major gun-based incident in years, perpetrated by a Muslim extremist. This led to many Australians outpouring solidarity for the Muslim population using the hashtag #IllRideWithYou. This message is, at best, poorly-worded and slightly insensitive, and at worst outright discriminatory.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46780106]so when black people get sick and die because the only doctor nearby is like "ew darkies" you'd still be supporting him? go back to stormfront please[/QUOTE] You just cherry picked everything. Ill take a screen shot since you cant read a lot of words. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wlmYXl2.png[/IMG] Never said I supported him, actually the exact opposite if you didnt get so sassy on feelings for such an epic comment due to bad reading. I would respect his right though, once again, I have the same, so do you, id rather be equal with laws and rights than not. Or do you want unequal rights and laws?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780115]You just cherry picked everything. Ill take a screen shot since you cant read a lot of words. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wlmYXl2.png[/IMG] Never said I supported him, actually the exact opposite if you didnt get so sassy on feelings for such an epic comment due to bad reading. I would respect his right though, once again, I have the same, so do you, id rather be equal with laws and rights than not. Or do you want unequal rights and laws?[/QUOTE] I think the question they were trying to ask was, what do you think should be done if a service provider refuses to serve a certain group of people whom, for one reason or another, have no alternative?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780115]You just cherry picked everything. Ill take a screen shot since you cant read a lot of words. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wlmYXl2.png[/IMG] Never said I supported him, actually the exact opposite if you didnt get so sassy on feelings for such an epic comment due to bad reading. [B]I would respect his right though, once again, I have the same, so do you, id rather be equal with laws and rights than not.[/B][/QUOTE] how exactly is not serving a group of people based on their ethnicity equal with rights and laws a. it's illegal under the CRA b. the group unable to use your service is obviously not being granted the same rights as others what you don't understand about running a business (cause you're too busy jerking off to the idea of laissez-faire capitalism) is that part of running it is realizing that your opinions on people mean jack shit you serve everyone that walks in the door, end of story

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46780126]I think the question they were trying to ask was, what do you think should be done if a service provider refuses to serve a certain group of people whom, for one reason or another, have no alternative?[/QUOTE] Well see thats an actual good question. My answer is I dont have one and it would be a horrible and shitty situation if it happens. Honestly I would assume if a doctor pulled that shit they would get their medical license revoked, I think people forget that you need an actual license to be a doctor and that is something that would most likely get yours taken away, thus losing your entire business. You already get your license revoked for insanely petty shit if you arent careful. Providers like cops/firemen/ambulance people, are made for the people and funded by the people, if upfront discrimination happened you can bet your fucking ass something would happen to them regardless of the location(i mean look whats been going on here in america the past few months), and im pretty sure it would be illegal for them. Now companies like an internet provider, well, when Comcast or Verizon start denying all black people somehow let me know, dont think that would ever happen. A grocery store and pharmacy are the two providers I can think of that would actually be very bad if they denied people. Two must have providers that can be owned by a single person in small towns. But I still would respect the right because I have the same, but at the same time in a situation like that where it can honestly end up causing someone to die due to lack of meds or food I would be far more inclined in a situation like this to want something to be done about it. It can be their right to do that, just as it could be the right for the town and township to try and shut it down or force it to shut down. But this is getting into extremes and what ifs, when those happen then we can see how it plays out.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780088]Its a right because a business is not YOUR right sadly, you didnt make it, you dont own it, you didnt work for it. If some guy built a shop all on his own and wanted to keep teens out, why shouldnt he be allowed? Its all his property? Should the government tell you what you can and cant do with shit you own? Can I just come to your house? Fuck around on your property? Mind if I just come in and use the shower everyday, I mean what right do you have to deny me? Its property and a building you own, its also private. Why should it be any different if you decide to sell shit? Can you answer that. [editline]23rd December 2014[/editline] Yes I would respect his Rights because I have the exact same? I would not however respect him or what hes doing and he would be a massive piece of shit. Why is this shit so hard to understand lol. Sorry I like to respect the rights of people who have the exact same as me. Would you not want equality with these rights? And why not and what would you do? Do you really want to be a hypocrite when it comes to equal laws and rights?[/QUOTE] Respect the rights of the racist shopowner who doesn't want the "filthy niggers" in his shop. Don't respect the rights of the innocent people who are being discriminated against because some geriatric fuck decided "I don't want them darkies in my store". I think the place for you is Stormfront, not Facepunch. or maybe /r/Libertarian. You use the "Free speech!!!1" excuse but banning people from your store for whatever insane bigotry you come up with isn't free speech, it's racial hatred and shouldn't be tolerated in any form. You do not and should not have the right to ban normal people from your store because of your own stupid, illogical, unfounded hatred for them for meaningless features of their body they don't even control.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780088]Its a right because a business is not YOUR right sadly, you didnt make it, you dont own it, you didnt work for it. If some guy built a shop all on his own and wanted to keep teens out, why shouldnt he be allowed? Its all his property? Should the government tell you what you can and cant do with shit you own? Can I just come to your house? Fuck around on your property? Mind if I just come in and use the shower everyday, I mean what right do you have to deny me? Its property and a building you own, its also private. Why should it be any different if you decide to sell shit? Can you answer that. [editline]23rd December 2014[/editline] Yes I would respect his Rights because I have the exact same? I would not however respect him or what hes doing and he would be a massive piece of shit. Why is this shit so hard to understand lol. Sorry I like to respect the rights of people who have the exact same as me. Would you not want equality with these rights? And why not and what would you do? Do you really want to be a hypocrite when it comes to equal laws and rights?[/QUOTE] Except that my house is for me, it's whole purpose is to serve me. While you get the advantage of a free place to lounge around in, that's counteracted by the disadvantages imposed upon me by my loss of privacy and security of my property. The penalty imposed on store owners by having Muslims shop there is frankly nonexistent, and you'd be a jackass to make an issue of it. If we lived in a socialist state where access all these services is guaranteed by the state anyway, then you'd have a point about the rights of private enterprises to serve whoever they want, but we don't, so they don't. Our ability to live our lives comfortably is granted to us at the behest of regular people running their own business, and they have a responsibility to not use that power to fuck whole groups of people over. And we don't have the right to use our property however we want, and with good reason. Should this theoretical right be extended to Al-Qaeda financiers, or people who let their apartment become a fire hazard? Do we live under the boot of tyranny because we can't choose to not pay taxes?

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;46780131]how exactly is not serving a group of people based on their ethnicity equal with rights and laws a. it's illegal under the CRA b. the group unable to use your service is obviously not being granted the same rights as others [B]what you don't understand about running a business (cause you're too busy jerking off to the idea of laissez-faire capitalism) is that part of running it is realizing that your opinions on people mean jack shit you serve everyone that walks in the door, end of story[/B][/QUOTE] its equal because any ethnicity can do it in America to anyone else they want? Thats the equal part, the unequal part is how someone is being denied, stop cherry picking. You are switching two things around. Im talking about the owners rights of his property and private business, while you are bringing up the inequality of denying people to said business. Plus I hope you realize I 100% agree with what I bolded in your quote. [editline]23rd December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Hamaflavian;46780225]Except that my house is for me, it's whole purpose is to serve me. While you get the advantage of a free place to lounge around in, that's counteracted by the disadvantages imposed upon me by my loss a privacy and security of my property. The penalty imposed on store owners by having Muslims shop there is frankly nonexistent, and you'd be a jackass to make an issue of it. If we lived in a socialist state where access all these services is guaranteed by the state anyway, then you'd have a point about the rights of private enterprises to serve whoever they want, but we don't, so they don't. Our ability to live our lives comfortably is granted to us at the behest of regular people running their own business, and they have a responsibility to not use that power to fuck whole groups of people over. And we don't have the right to use our property however we want, and with good reason. Should this theoretical right be extended to Al-Qaeda financiers, or people who let their apartment become a fire hazard? Do we live under the boot of tyranny because we can't choose to not pay taxes?[/QUOTE] If that house is for you specifically then why cant a business be specific if it wants?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780228] If that house is for you specifically then why cant a business be specific if it wants?[/QUOTE] Di..did you read what I actually wrote at all? Because I explained it right in there, specifically the part about how private business are the guarantors of quality of life in a free market society, and that confers upon them special responsibilities that homeowners don't have.

[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;46780283]Di..did you read what I actually wrote at all? Because I explained it right there in there, specifically the part about how private business are the guarantors of quality of life in a free market society, and that confers upon them special responsibilities that homeowners don't have.[/QUOTE] But why, why do you get to decide that they need special responsibilities? Shouldnt the business owner be able to decide how they want to do things and how they go about it if its not illegal? Why do they have to do anything for anyone wheres the paper they signed saying they must?(well money obviously but I mean more literal)

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46780444]But why, why do you get to decide that they need special responsibilities? Shouldnt the business owner be able to decide how they want to do things and how they go about it if its not illegal? Why do they have to do anything for anyone wheres the paper they signed saying they must?(well money obviously but I mean more literal)[/QUOTE] Explain to me in simple terms why it's ok for a business owner to discriminate against normal, innocent people because of their race, sex, gender, or orientation. Why is this ok, despite it being horrible and bigoted? Why do you think it's ok for a business owner to let white people in just fine, but scorn, distrust, and outright ban minorities from entering his store and giving him business? I want you to give me a real reason, by the way. Not "Because it's their business! Free speech!!" bullshit.