[QUOTE=Sonador;51929963]Perhaps you should read the law instead of reading the name.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you should respond to the actual argument instead of dancing around it. Would you, in [b]any and every[/b] context, accept a law discouraging the murder of police? The context is what makes this bill fucking ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;51929967]Maybe instead of adding insult to injury, steps could first be taken to have justice brought where needs be. BLM is not domestic terrorism, they're the ones who are actually jeopardized.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of people who see otherwise. I personally understand why BLM exists, but it is fact that, such as in the case of Dallas that I mentioned, persons have taken up the BLM mantle to commit acts of murder and terrorism.
They're being painted in a very bad light, and it is unfortunate.
Both BLM and Blue Lives Matter are legitimate, I just wish they could both make progress without clashing. Neither the police no persons of color should be murdered because of who they are.
[editline]8th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paramud;51929970]Perhaps you should respond to the actual argument instead of dancing around it. Would you, in [b]any and every[/b] context, accept a law discouraging the murder of police? The context is what makes this bill fucking ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Perhps not, I'm sorry. I admit, I get pretty steamed when this sort of stuff when it gets brought up.
In alignment with my above post explaining why both BLM and Blue Live Matter are legitimate, I should say in the context this bill was implemented, it is absolutely not ridiculous. Police officers ARE being murdered just for being police officers. Just as it is presently a hate crime to murder or commit other crimes against a person based on their nationality or race, I do not see a problem with it being a hate crime to murder a peace officer for being a peace officer.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929924]He absolutely did[/QUOTE]
Hahaha what
No I fucking didn't
What the fuck are you even talking about man
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929978]Both BLM and Blue Lives Matter are legitimate, I just wish they could both make progress without clashing. Neither the police no persons of color should be murdered because of who they are.[/QUOTE]
It's almost like there's laws against murder [I]and[/I] laws against attacking police officers [I]and[/I] laws against attacking minorities and making any more is redundant and nothing short of a kneejerk reaction.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51929992]It's almost like there's laws against murder [I]and[/I] laws against attacking police officers [I]and[/I] laws against attacking minorities and making any more is redundant and nothing short of a kneejerk reaction.[/QUOTE]
So you'd say implemeting more laws in the vein of what BLM is rallying for would be redundant and a kneejerk reaction as well, of course?
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929993]So you'd say implemeting more laws in the vein of what BLM is rallying for would be a kneejerk reaction as well, of course?[/QUOTE]
Hi, could you please explain to me how I ever claimed that murdering a police officer was okay?
You were pretty goddamn certain of it a little bit ago and you seem to be ignoring it now.
Sonador not reading the OP or other people's posts????
[QUOTE=Craptasket;51930005]Sonador not reading the OP or other people's posts????[/QUOTE]
I specifically have been referring to the OP and quoting people for replies???
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929993]So you'd say implemeting more laws in the vein of what BLM is rallying for would be redundant and a kneejerk reaction as well, of course?[/QUOTE]
I understand that you have a history working in the law enforcement career field Sonador, but could you at least try to put aside a personal bias and not misconstrue everyone's posts?
[QUOTE=Sonador;51930013]I specifically have been referring to the OP and quoting people for replies???[/QUOTE]
Its already incredibly illegal to kill cops. All of the police officers killed in the past 17 years would've been killed regardless because the murders where not politically or hate motivated. Thats why I said "It wasn't like it was a problem" in regards to politically/hate motivated killings, in Kentucky. They would have died with or without this bill and the criminals involved wouldn't of gotten charged with hate crimes anyway (because most of them where from police, doing their jobs and criminals doing other criminal things not wanting to go to prison. Different from the Dallas shooting that was carried out with the expressed intent of just senselessly murdering police officers) I repeat none of the police murders in the past 17 years would've been covered by this at all, that's why I don't see the actual point of this, not because i'm some cop hating idiot which is what you tried to imply.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51930013]I specifically have been referring to the OP and quoting people for replies???[/QUOTE]
Not the same as reading them though :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929993]So you'd say implemeting more laws in the vein of what BLM is rallying for would be a kneejerk reaction as well, of course?[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked BLM rallied for justice for black men killed by the police. This has nothing to do with the worth of blue lives but everything to do with their constantly being pardoned for murdering black youth.
Creating a bill to outlaw violence against black people would solve nothing and the fact that you have to protest to remind people that black people are meant to be protected under the law should put emphasis on the irrelevance of the law as far as ill willed people are concerned. A kneejerk reaction would be outlawing arrest of black folk as a safety measure which obviously will never happen.
[QUOTE=BusinessRed;51930016]I understand that you have a history working in the law enforcement career field Sonador, but could you at least try to put aside a personal bias and not misconstrue everyone's posts?[/QUOTE]
Probably not, honestly.
I'll stop posting and just leave this as my final point:
If BLM is legitimate, BlueLM is legitimate. Adding this law is providing equal protections to the police that are presently there for hate crimes against specific individuals.
This is not some backhanded response to BLM directly, no matter how much one wants it to be. It's a response to the rise in hate crime and police murder in the recent political climate in the US. If anything, the name is unfortunate, and I'd agree maybe renaming it is a bright idea.
That's all.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51930013]I specifically have been referring to the OP and quoting people for replies???[/QUOTE]
So where's my response?
[QUOTE=Sonador;51930025]Probably not, honestly.
I'll stop posting and just leave this as my final point:
If BLM is legitimate, BlueLM is legitimate.[/quote]
...No? You can't just say things like this and just assume it's the truth you know. Call me when the police suddenly become disproportionate victims of state sponsored violence and discrimination.
[quote]This is not some backhanded response to BLM directly, no matter how much one wants it to be. It's a response to the rise in hate crime and police murder in the recent political climate in the US. If anything, the name is unfortunate, and I'd agree maybe renaming it is a bright idea.
That's all.[/QUOTE]
So the name was just an unfortunate accident and not a deliberate jab by corrupt and out of touch politicians towards growing social unrest? For some reason I don't think I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Police officers are safer now than ever before so your final point is also bogus.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51930025]Probably not, honestly.
I'll stop posting and just leave this as my final point:
If BLM is legitimate, BlueLM is legitimate. Adding this law is providing equal protections to the police that are presently there for hate crimes against specific individuals.
This is not some backhanded response to BLM directly, no matter how much one wants it to be. It's a response to the rise in hate crime and police murder in the recent political climate in the US. If anything, the name is unfortunate, and I'd agree maybe renaming it is a bright idea.
That's all.[/QUOTE]
you must be daft if you think police killings are hate crimes and not just a byproduct of crimes gone wrong. you know it's already a capital offence right? making it a hate crime despite it not being one helps no one
[QUOTE=geel9;51929903]This statistic means absolutely nothing without statistics on the murder rate in that state, the amount of police officers vs normal citizens, and how everything compares to other states.[/QUOTE]
The most recent year that I've found crime statistics for is 2015, in 2015 there where 209 murders total. That year 2 police officers where murdered by criminals fleeing other crimes. You barely hear about Police officers dieing in Kentucky and when they do its a massive deal in the communities that these officers policed (for good reason). The other 3 deaths that year where either accidents or health related deaths (one was a heart attack)
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929905]Murdering a police officer is not okay in any context.[/QUOTE]
So murder of civilians is okay under certain contexts?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51930144]So murder of civilians is okay under certain contexts?[/QUOTE]
I mean Sonador's reading skills are pretty shit right now but lets not do what they're doing and pull the rug under other peoples feet? You know what I mean?
Don't imitate that behavior mate
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929894]I just want it immortalized that this poster thinks the murder of 20 police officers in 17 years in one state is no problem.
Good gravy. What a gracious public to serve.[/QUOTE]
ohio here, we have had much worse in that time period, officers are going to die in the line of work be it accident or durring an engaugement, its just a statistic. 20 dead over 17 years is damn good, we have had 5 in my county alone due to accidents last year
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;51930089]you must be daft if you think police killings are hate crimes and not just a byproduct of crimes gone wrong. you know it's already a capital offence right? making it a hate crime despite it not being one helps no one[/QUOTE]
Yes because people totally haven't walked up to parked cop cars and shooting the people within the last few years. It's totally a byproduct of crimes gone wrong.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;51929937]How the hell did we go from the tentative assertion that black lives are worth something to declaring assault of police officers a hate crime? This screams of trying to sweep racial issues under the rug.
"Blue lives" is not a race and were never jeopardized, and anyone who parrots "blue lives matter" or "all lives matter" is purposely trying to dilute the issue of police brutality & racism. I wish it were just a state senate pipe dream but there are grass roots for bootlicking somehow which is the saddest part of this story.[/QUOTE]
conservative backlash, almost as soon as BLM started right wing muppets started shouting blue lives matter first as a joke then as a serious challenge. the problem with saying that however is it totally ignores all the reasoning behind these attacks and riots in that the massive police state has made these communities feel oppressed and the tension there has gotten to where there is no peaceful dialogue.
these same right wing sources frankly dont care because they exist to whip white conservatives into a frenzy over every percieved slight against their class
[QUOTE]The state Senate on Tuesday gave final approval to a measure dubbed "Blue Lives Matter," which makes it a hate crime to attack a police officer, [B]a firefighter or emergency medical personnel[/B] [/QUOTE]
This part I support. Police are already protected legally more than civilians but my fucking god
there is literally no reason to attack firefighters or medical personnel.
At least here in Lexington the cops seem pretty chill. I've only had one interaction with the police when i got into a wreck but they were very courteous and professional (though on the police report they said that i was a female :v)
And the statistics help support the fact that Kentucky doesn't really have a cop killer problem, so i think this is very much a useless feel-good measure, at least for the cop part. Thanks matt bevin
Dumb, unnecessary bill.
Killing police is already a capitol offense, IIRC statistically you're pretty much guaranteed the death penalty or life imprisonment in states that allow it too if you somehow survive to court.
Laws only work for people who obey them. Killing/attacking police officers is already illegal, so what the hell is this new law for, and who's it going to stop if it's targeting those who would kill anyway?
[QUOTE=Sonador;51929894]I just want it immortalized that this poster thinks the murder of 20 police officers in 17 years in one state is no problem.
Good gravy. What a gracious public to serve.[/QUOTE]
That's not a significant enough problem to warrant redundant feel-good laws that won't address it in the slightest. That low background risk of murder is an occupational hazard of the job that is already addressed with numerous laws.
I can believe both that the murder of police officers is a bad thing, and that the murder of police officers in Kentucky is not currently a significant societal problem worth addressing with ineffective knee-jerk measures, especially when the murder rate against police officers is [I]lower[/I] than the state average for homicide in general. If anything, your emotional outrage should be directed towards addressing the root causes of violence and unrest in Kentucky as a whole.
[QUOTE=elitehakor;51930525]At least here in Lexington the cops seem pretty chill. I've only had one interaction with the police when i got into a wreck but they were very courteous and professional (though on the police report they said that i was a female :v)
And the statistics help support the fact that Kentucky doesn't really have a cop killer problem, so i think this is very much a useless feel-good measure, at least for the cop part. Thanks matt bevin[/QUOTE]
they are kind of chill
source: the dozens of cops that you see at tolly ho every night
also the only time i've been pulled over by cops in lexington was when one pulled me over and wanted to know why i was driving so slow through a neighborhood late at night. he seemed flustered when i told him that i lived there
This will be abused. If you're being arrested and you resist that arrest and assault the officer, you've [I]already[/I] committed a crime - now they'll just tack on "hate crime" if you do that and put you in jail for even longer.
I understand that police can be victims of hate, as with any other person. Those New York shootings a long while back are an excellent example of a murder motivated [I]entirely[/I] by the police's uniform. But I totally disagree with making a certain type of government employee a protected class. There's already enough problems with police being treated like higher-class citizens. Family members get away with traffic offenses just because, the thin blue line protects police from receiving justice when they've committed a crime, all of that - codifying police into a higher class based on [I]employment type[/I] is just unnecessary.
Race is a protected class - meaning you can't discriminate based on race. Age is a protected class - meaning you can't discriminate based on age. Sex is a protected class - meaning you can't discriminate based on sex. Religion is a protected class - meaning you can't discriminate based on religion. And now, police are a protected class - meaning you can't discriminate based on... police? It's [I]exclusive[/I], not inclusive, and goes against the core intent of legislation that protects specific classes of people. If you aren't a police officer, you don't get those protections. That's not true for most other protected classes - you can't be "not a race," you're automatically afforded those protections no matter what. This is the [I]opposite[/I] of what "protected class" is supposed to mean.
I am having a hard time seeing how killing a cop can be classified as a hate crime simply because a hate crime is a very narrow definition. It requires the person purposefully targeting a group for no other reason besides hating that group. A good chunk of killings would not fall into the hate crime criteria. Those would fall under manslaughter or some other murder charge.
This would really be tested in front of a jury. The prosecutor needs to convince them that any killing of these groups, regardless of the actual events leading up to it, are because of hate for that group of people (which is going to be extremely difficult to do).
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