British teaching unions say sexism is culturally maintained by women themselves. - Polidicks

but then i've never played bayonetta so maybe there's a backstory about her hard childhood and her adoption of her ridiculous image as a subversion of what is expected of her of society or something silly like that but i somehow doubt it [editline]2nd April 2013[/editline] okay just rate me dumb? very civil

all women aspire to be bayonetta [t]http://snag.gy/ikjkF.jpg[/t] wow this sure is empowering [t]http://honya-ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bayonetta-hosoime.jpg[/t] you can tell she sure is smart [t]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/077/a/7/sexy_bayonetta_by_kamillho-d3bw97b.jpg[/t] oh fuck this

she's wearing glasses. what more do you want!!?!

[QUOTE=Bobie;40125074]all women aspire to be bayonetta [IMG]http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/660/Bayonetta_by_Homaredou.jpg[/IMG] wow this sure is empowering [IMG]http://honya-ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bayonetta-hosoime.jpg[/IMG] you can tell she sure is smart [IMG]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/077/a/7/sexy_bayonetta_by_kamillho-d3bw97b.jpg[/IMG] oh fuck this[/QUOTE] I really don't get how jon and arin thought she was a good example of a female protagonist.

[t]http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Bayonetta-Costume_10-28_01.jpg[/t] "im so empowered i am free from this male patriarchy" -bayonetta

[I]judging a character based solely on her appearance and self righteously deeming it unfitting in your own uninformed opinion[/I] Thanks for proving me right, thread. Stay classy.

[quote=article][B]The conference will hear claims that old-fashioned sexism has not gone away[/B][/quote] back on-topic this is such shit. you only have to go to your local old gits and builders pub and listen to conversations at the bar to realise that 1950s sexism is still alive and rampant among certain sub-cultures [editline]2nd April 2013[/editline] saying that you don't even have to try that hard at all. just go and subscribe to uniLAD or some other epicbanter™ facebook thing to find it [editline]2nd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;40125130][I]judging a character based solely on her appearance and self righteously deeming it unfitting in your own uninformed opinion[/I] Thanks for proving me right, thread. Stay classy.[/QUOTE] let me get this right you're having a go at us for judging a woman based on her looks that is a fictional character in a piece of fiction made and written by men? ahahahahaaaaa

My problem with most female videogame protagonists is that they're [I]almost always[/I] designed to be attractive. I mean, yeah, characters like Bayonetta or Lara Croft are powerful but it always comes at the cost of having to be physically appealing. Given how a woman's appearance is pretty much seen as the single most important quality in American (and maybe even Western) culture, what kind of message do you think that sends to young girls who haven't been graced with good looks? This is why I think the whole "empowerment" argument is dumb, because it's pretty much saying that you're allowed to be powerful, but only if you're sexy.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FgCM0MdKV6E/TaL_sDvQkEI/AAAAAAAAAFo/5LAOO1ikKFs/s1600/bayonetta-hair-suit.jpg[/img] "i am a smart, attractive and strong female role model" - bayonetta

[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;40125153]My problem with most female videogame protagonists is that they're [I]almost always[/I] designed to be attractive. I mean, yeah, characters like Bayonetta or Lara Croft are powerful but it always comes at the cost of having to be physically appealing. Given how a woman's appearance is pretty much seen as the single most important quality in American (and maybe even Western) culture, what kind of message do you think that sends to young girls who haven't been graced with good looks? This is why I think the whole "empowerment" argument is dumb, because it's pretty much saying that you're allowed to be powerful, but only if you're sexy.[/QUOTE] I can agree with that, but generally speaking [I]all[/I] characters in video games are made to be attractive, regardless of sex. And if they aren't, they're probably old, evil, or the comic relief character. So in similar fassion, that makes the "only if you're sexy" argument dumb.

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;40125217]I can agree with that, but generally speaking [I]all[/I] characters in video games are made to be attractive, regardless of sex. And if they aren't, they're probably old, evil, or the comic relief character.[/QUOTE] Yeah but female characters tend to emphasis certain physical traits and have a noticeable lack of fitting clothing rather than just being "attractive" like male characters tend to be. When a male character is "attractive" he's usually just a bit gruff and somewhat well built, the latter of which is an actually reasonable trait that would be useful in situations. The charactaristics given to women in games generally arent very useful at all and often make no sense.

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;40125217]I can agree with that, but generally speaking [I]all[/I] characters in video games are made to be attractive, regardless of sex. And if they aren't, they're probably old, evil, or the comic relief character.[/QUOTE] but there's a big line between casting attractive leads (because people find it easier to aspire to be and empathise more with attractive people) and over-sexualising all your characters of a particular gender attractive male lead: [t]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111213235852/uncharted/images/5/5d/Nathan_Drake_render.jpg[/t] sexualised female lead: [t]http://uk.playstation.com/media/gsVgmHsG/BayonettaHero.jpg[/t] and then there's plenty of male leads who aren't attractive at all really [t]http://cdn420.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/marcus-fenix-gears21.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Bobie;40125187][img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FgCM0MdKV6E/TaL_sDvQkEI/AAAAAAAAAFo/5LAOO1ikKFs/s1600/bayonetta-hair-suit.jpg[/img] "i am a smart, attractive and strong female role model" - bayonetta[/QUOTE] You are aware you're criticizing western culture using an eastern game as an example, right? Last time I checked Platinum Games is a Japanese company. Of course if you actually knew anything about the game you would have realized that.

Alyx Vance She's attractive, smart, and has a "feminine personality" without being a stereotype Let's point to half-life instead of bayonetta for examples of a good female character

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;40125320]You are aware you're criticizing western culture using an eastern game as an example, right? Last time I checked Platinum Games is a Japanese company. Of course if you actually knew anything about the game you would have realized that.[/QUOTE] he's criticizing people using bayonetta as an example of a non-sexist/empowering female character

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;40125320]You are aware you're criticizing western culture using an eastern game as an example, right? Last time I checked Platinum Games is a Japanese company. Of course if you actually knew anything about the game you would have realized that.[/QUOTE] the game also sold well in western culture and was used as an example of good female role models in western culture so the origin of the developer doesn't matter

[QUOTE=Zeke129;40125329]Alyx Vance She's attractive, smart, and has a "feminine personality" without being a stereotype Let's point to half-life instead of bayonetta for examples of a good female character[/QUOTE] Alex Vance's are far and few between if I'm honest.

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;40125320]You are aware you're criticizing western culture using an eastern game as an example, right?[/QUOTE] someone brought it up as a specific example so we're criticising it. regardless the game sold a tonne over here and loads of western people enjoy it and use it as an example of a good female character? so it's still a part of western culture

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;40125320]You are aware you're criticizing western culture using an eastern game as an example, right? Last time I checked Platinum Games is a Japanese company. Of course if you actually knew anything about the game you would have realized that.[/QUOTE] where did i mention western or eastern culture in this thread? go on, you baka gaijin! test my debating power. find that quote, and i'll reward you... HEH!

[QUOTE=Zeke129;40125329]Alyx Vance She's attractive, smart, and has a "feminine personality" without being a stereotype Let's point to half-life instead of bayonetta for examples of a good female character[/QUOTE] she's a decent example but she's up there with less than a handful where-as almost every game ever has a male lead who is, if not well-rounded and well-developed, at least a massive male fantasy trip

[QUOTE=Zeke129;40125329]Alyx Vance She's attractive, smart, and has a "feminine personality" without being a stereotype Let's point to half-life instead of bayonetta for examples of a good female character[/QUOTE] mate shes a fucking cock tease that simply won't put out u wot

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40125373]she's a decent example but she's up there with less than a handful where-as almost every game ever has a male lead who is, if not well-rounded and well-developed, at least a massive male fantasy trip[/QUOTE] Some games, especially Japanese ones, sexualize men and make them act/look more like women and I don't even know where to start on that one Really, I have no clue what this implies or why it happens

yeh you're right i don't even know where to get started on that. it's like the complete opposite of what happens here

Speaking as a fat guy, I can go and say that the handsome muscular look of men in videogames is sexist and represents a false image of men, but I don't because I know I'm just a fat guy and it doesn't matter because they're made up characters in a bloody videogame that were made to appeal to the masses, and also I really don't care. It seem like a bad thing to say, but if women adopted the same atitude the issue would go away. Nobody plays a game and sees an elf with armor that exposes her breasts and goes "that's what women should look like!" and if they do, they don't go on to force women to dress as elves in scanty armor, they turn to other games or weird hentai or something where it is readily available. That or they look for a girl with similar interests, which do actually exist these days. And as I said previously, sexualization =/= sexism. The problem of sexualization being sexist comes up when someone sees something, like Bayonetta's tight clothes and cleavage and immediately scream "That's sexist!" because they don't agree with it. That is [B]not[/B] what sexism is.

although that said male japanese characters who look like young boys still tend to have really aspirational male traits like being able to wield fuck off giant swords and rescue all the damsels

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;40125408]Speaking as a fat guy, I can go and say that the handsome muscular look of men in videogames is sexist and represents a false image of men, but I don't because I know I'm just a fat guy and it doesn't matter because they're made up characters in a bloody videogame that were made to appeal to the masses, and also I really don't care. It seem like a bad thing to say, but if women adopted the same atitude the issue would go away. Nobody plays a game and sees an elf with armor that exposes her breasts and goes "that's what women should look like!" and if they do, they don't go on to force women to dress as elves in scanty armor, they turn to other games or weird hentai or something where it is readily available. That or they look for a girl with similar interests, which do actually exist these days.[/QUOTE] its not sexist because women did not perpetuate the male power fantasy

[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;40125408]Speaking as a fat guy, I can go and say that the handsome muscular look of men in videogames is sexist and represents a false image of men, but I don't because I know I'm just a fat guy and it doesn't matter because they're made up characters in a bloody videogame that were made to appeal to the masses, and also I really don't care. It seem like a bad thing to say, but if women adopted the same atitude the issue would go away. Nobody plays a game and sees an elf with armor that exposes her breasts and goes "that's what women should look like!" and if they do, they don't go on to force women to dress as elves in scanty armor, they turn to other games or weird hentai or something where it is readily available. That or they look for a girl with similar interests, which do actually exist these days.[/QUOTE] You're fine with it because they're not sexualizing male characters they're making a power fantasy out of them. The men in games don't look good for eye candy they look good because they're the fit and rugged hero who saves the day Come to think, Bayonetta might be some strange hybrid between sexualization and a female power fantasy actually

[QUOTE=Bobie;40125419]its not sexist because women did not perpetuate the male power fantasy[/QUOTE] i'd say it's sexist, but it's sexism perpetuated by men/the male patriarchy or whatever

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40125434]i'd say it's sexist, but it's sexism perpetuated by men/the male patriarchy or whatever[/QUOTE] yeah it's sexism sexism hurts both sexes in a way, it just hurts men differently in the case of male power fantasies it creates unrealistic standards and pushes the idea that men are the valiant heroes who should be out saving women from dragons or whatever

[QUOTE=Zeke129;40125432]Come to think, Bayonetta might be some strange hybrid between sexualization and a female power fantasy actually[/QUOTE] Or just a different male sex fantasy.