[QUOTE=Stopper;45740804]Invading our country and forcing us into being a satellite state for 60 years was a pretty dickish thing too.
[/editline]
[/QUOTE]
Is it a monument to Stalin? Lenin? Putin? A general symbol of dictatorship?
It's a monument to common soldiers that lost their lives to fight off the Nazi. I don't get how these guys did anything bad to Bulgarians.
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=antianan;45745950]Even though it's painted good, i don't think that painting any monument is ok. I mean, it's a part of history, it has some aesthetic value, and it's a monument to those who gave their lifes to fight fascism after all. It has nothing to do with commies being bad for you or anything.
I understand that you guys don't give a thing about our feelings about theese paintings, and it's normal, i guess. We've been enemies for 60+ years, and we're hastily becoming enemies again at this very moment. But just imagine if something like this will happen to some monument to soldiers of your country, and everything will fall into it's place.[/QUOTE]
I was going to use "What if someone painted Statue of Liberty as a super hero?" argument, but then I thought it would actually be rad as hell.
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45744652]Not really, when the GDR was collapsing and the West German laws were coming to play a lot of things were happening including the removal of soviet objects
[IMG]http://www.darrelplant.com/images/goodbyelenin.jpg[/IMG]
This is from the movie "Goodbye Lenin!" (2003) when the main characters mother steps outside and see's widespread capitalism hit the GDR along with anything with soviet influence being removed
It was rapid, Germany erased as much as it could from the soviet satellite times
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
btw Goodbye Lenin is a great film, highly advise you watch it[/QUOTE]
Well with Lenin it's at least understandable. It's a tradition to [url=http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/ukrainian-protesters-take-down-lenin-statue/355908/]take down Lenin statues in any unusual situation[/url]
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45746070]Is it a monument to Stalin? Lenin? Putin? A general symbol of dictatorship?
It's a monument to common soldiers that lost their lives to fight off the Nazi. I don't get how these guys did anything bad to Bulgarians.
[/QUOTE]
You seem to be forgetting that we were part of the Axis in WWII and the Red Army invaded our country.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45740654]Such a dickish thing to do.
Even Germans keep the signs of Soviet soldiers on the Reichstag wall as a monument. Show some fucking respect.
And it's a work of art after all, it's not even a symbol of power that you might have a reason to hate.
Fine drawn though.[/QUOTE]
People in post soviet states/soviet satellite states don't exactly have fond memories of the Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;45746237]This is childish. If you don't like monuments so much, why not try to remove them on the legal grounds? Make some public activity, earn political reputation? Painting over them is not gonna help anyone, it's just blatant vandalism for the sake of it, no matter how much you try to justify it.[/QUOTE]
Who says we haven't tried? My main gripe isn't with the monument itself, but rather the fact that it's easily the biggest monument in central Sofia, bigger than monuments of our own army. It represents an army which has given 0 victims in our lands and has helped prop up a dictatorship which has given nothing good to this country. I respect it's historic value, but it has no place where it is now.
[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;45746237]This is childish. If you don't like monuments so much, why not try to remove them on the legal grounds? Make some public activity, earn political reputation? Painting over them is not gonna help anyone, it's just blatant vandalism for the sake of it, no matter how much you try to justify it.[/QUOTE]
because then this happens:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night[/url]
[QUOTE=raviool;45746402]because then this happens:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night[/url][/QUOTE]
Bulgaria doesn't have much ethnic russian population to speak of though and as the guy above said that monument to soviet soldiers in ww2 isn't honouring bulgarian dead, considering they were aligned with the axis and not the allies.
I think they should keep them as a historical monument but perhaps use it as a statement of independence or as part of a museum exhibit.
In sofia there is some big ass Soviet star thing which they took down and its been dumped in a garden somewhere. They kept it there, ruined, rusty, covered in green algae. I think that is more fitting than denying it happened and wiping it from existence.
To anyone looking for a holiday destination I couldn't recommend any country more than Bulgaria, it has fantastic country side, great food, really good monuments and loads of culture. Roman ruins in the sofia subway, roman amphitheatre, byzantine buildings, thracian tombs, ottoman stuff, fortified cities, ancient churches, castles on the top of mountain passes where great victories were won (you can even crank a gattling gun), huge mountain ranges stretching the entire country or great sea side with cheap drinks and pretty girls.
Bulgaria: soon to be annexed to Russia.
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;45745782]I think it was easy for the GDR to be put into place because it was basically a continuation of Nazi oppression just under a different government, plus the population had already been conditioned in totalitarian rule for 12 years.[/QUOTE]
Tbh GDR can't really be that comparable to the Nazi's, it was definitely not human rights friendly that's for sure.
It's super interesting to read up on the Eastern Bloc especially the split in Germany
[QUOTE=Stopper;45746162]You seem to be forgetting that we were part of the Axis in WWII and the Red Army invaded our country.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how Bulgaria sees WWII.
Shouldn't you be apologetic just like Germans?
Honest question, I don't want to provoke anything. Really interested what the point of view is.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45746953]I don't know how Bulgaria sees WWII.
Shouldn't you be apologetic just like Germans?
Honest question, I don't want to provoke anything. Really interested what the point of view is.[/QUOTE]
When i talked to bulgarian people about ww2 they kind of joked saying they always pick the losing side and they were proud about being one of the only axis countries to not deport or imprison jews.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45746953]I don't know how Bulgaria sees WWII.
Shouldn't you be apologetic just like Germans?
Honest question, I don't want to provoke anything. Really interested what the point of view is.[/QUOTE]
We're not, and I don't see why we should be. We only joined the war when the German army was at our doorstep, demanding passage in order to attack Greece, to help Italy. Under the threat of German invasion and the promise of regaining lost lands, we joined the Axis. Mind you, this happened before the Soviet Union joined WWII.
We did not participate in the invasions of Yugoslavia and Greece, but occupied them afterwards to relieve German forces which were required elsewhere. We did not help with the invasion and did not declare war to the Soviet Union. Germany forced us to declare war on the US and UK which resulted in the bombing of Sofia. After the fall of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union declared war on us with no provocation, invaded our country and propped up a communist government.
Do you see anything here that we should be apologetic for?
[QUOTE=Stopper;45747607]We're not, and I don't see why we should be. We only joined the war when the German army was at our doorstep, demanding passage in order to attack Greece, to help Italy. Under the threat of German invasion and the promise of regaining lost lands, we joined the Axis. Mind you, this happened before the Soviet Union joined WWII.
We did not participate in the invasions of Yugoslavia and Greece, but occupied them afterwards to relieve German forces which were required elsewhere. We did not help with the invasion and did not declare war to the Soviet Union. Germany forced us to declare war on the US and UK which resulted in the bombing of Sofia. After the fall of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union declared war on us with no provocation, invaded our country and propped up a communist government.
Do you see anything here that we should be apologetic for?[/QUOTE]
Well then you are right. So was the monument created way after WWII, during the Soviet invasion?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45747655]Well then you are right. So was the monument created way after WWII, during the Soviet invasion?[/QUOTE]
10 years after, in 1954.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45747712]10 years after, in 1954.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info.
Then I agree it's a monument to Soviet power and removing them via legal means can be justified. Vandalish is still childish.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45744652]
btw Goodbye Lenin is a great film, highly advise you watch it[/QUOTE]
goodbye lenin fucking owned, watched it in german class
the scene in which the statue gets removed is also probably one of the funniest if not for the sheer "what the fuck" look on the mom's face as a gigantic arm-outstretched lenin rises up over a building towards her
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
weird that bulgaria hasn't defaced ALL their soviet monuments, i thought wrecking soviet related stuff was still fair game?
[QUOTE=FFStudios;45748302]goodbye lenin fucking owned, watched it in german class
the scene in which the statue gets removed is also probably one of the funniest if not for the sheer "what the fuck" look on the mom's face as a gigantic arm-outstretched lenin rises up over a building towards her
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
weird that bulgaria hasn't defaced ALL their soviet monuments, i thought wrecking soviet related stuff was still fair game?[/QUOTE]
I really thought that scene was powerful in some way because she's stepping out in a totally new environment, everything is different, things are changing all around her and capitalism is sweeping over the GDR
Especially like when that drink coca-cola banner is draped over the buildings while they're trying their best to preserve as much of the GDR as they can
[t]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-imiEVWg8tyI/UVkqL5G4L_I/AAAAAAAAAF4/NTAjYQYWrFM/s1600/good+bye+lenin+2.jpg[/t]
Basically the movie is fucking amazing
[QUOTE=Stopper;45741163]This is an actual photo of the last incident.
[img]http://85.14.28.164/d/images/photos/0234/0000234367-article2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Looks like Clifford the Big Red Dog took a piss
It shows that Russia whines more, the closer you are an ally/dependent to them.
Other countries like Romania or Poland destroyed most if not all their soviet monuments (Lenin statues, monuments to soviet "liberators"), not a peep from Russia since they can't do much in here. Bulgarians are pissed and vandalize such monuments, in a tasteful way even, Russia loses it's shit.
Russia stay out of Ukraine.
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