Bedroom tax: one in seven households 'face eviction'
55 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43882704]Yes there is. Jobs don't pay well at the moment. Petrol/public transport prices are sky rocketing. People with degrees are only able to be minimum wage jobs. Support is needed by the poor right now.[/QUOTE]
Did you do a degree in english lit?
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882727]Did you do a degree in english lit?[/QUOTE]
Who said I have a degree?
I work 9-5.30 as a web developer. I took a break from my maths degree to get over some personal stuff.
I'm in a full time job and still cannot realistically afford to move out of my dads house, there are people in worse situations than me, who work and don't have the luxury of a parent to fall back on as backup.
Quit being inconsiderate.
I pay money to the goddam government only for them to pay lazy bums who stay at home all day. While I cant change this what I want is the poor person/s who my moneys goes to kiss my boot and to send me weekly updates (like a diary) of their situation so I can laugh at it.
Clearly this is the system that needs to be implemented. Extra stressful and humiliating for the poor.
Must be really easy to move with all these [url=http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/08/bedroom-tax-shortage-small-homes]houses[/url] for [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/big-lie-behind-the-bedroom-tax-families-trapped-with-nowhere-to-move-face-penalty-for-having-spare-room-8745597.html]everyone.[/url] There definitely isn't a huge [url=http://www.jrf.org.uk/media-centre/shortage-homes-over-next-20-years-threatens-deepening-housing-crisis]housing[/url] [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sudden-rise-in-homelessness-blamed-on-housing-shortage-and-the-bedroom-tax-9004207.html]shortage.[/url]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43882752]Who said I have a degree?
I work 9-5.30 as a web developer. I took a break from my maths degree to get over some personal stuff.
I'm in a full time job and still cannot realistically afford to move out of my dads house, there are people in worse situations than me, who work and don't have the luxury of a parent to fall back on as backup.
Quit being inconsiderate.[/QUOTE]
You make at least £1025/m pre-tax (based upon minimum wage). Rent in Aberdeen for a one bedroom would be ~£550/m - leaving you with £475/m. That's survivable - not exactly comfortable, but enough. Rent in most of the rest of the UK excluding London is less than that - so unless you live in London I can't really see the issue you're having moving out.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882665]That's different - I'm not against people who can't work claiming. That's part of what I believe my taxes should go to. What annoys me is people who are too lazy to work taking my hard earned money.[/QUOTE]
Also a very goofy thing to say. How far in the clouds is your head to believe that only [I]lazy[/I] people need financial aid? I can't speak as to France's situation, but here in America, at the very least, making an honest living for folks born in, or brought to, poverty is extremely difficult. It not only takes a lot of hard work, but a lot of luck as well. You have to hope that you're lucky enough to get hired into a job that pays a living wage, lucky enough to avoid getting sick or hurt, lucky enough to hope that your car doesn't break down because you can't afford repairs right now, lucky enough to not get caught up in the gang violence that inevitably plagues poor areas.
Even the lucky folks may not be able to escape completely. There are folks who work their entire lives trying to support their families, and still need government aid just to keep the lights on and food on the table.
The world isn't black and white. Sometimes smart, able people find themselves stuck in bad situations, and find that they aren't able to climb back out without help. Sometimes stupid, lazy people find themselves very wealthy, and mistakenly assume that they're the norm.
In most cases, poverty is not a choice; it's a condition. You can fight against it with everything you've got, and sometimes you'll come out on top. A lot of times, you won't.
Welfare is necessary. Forcing people to uproot their lives and and cram themselves into worse housing and bad neighborhoods just to continue getting the help they need is despicable.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43882803]Also a very goofy thing to say. How far in the clouds is your head to believe that only [I]lazy[/I] people need financial aid? I can't speak as to France's situation, but here in America, at the very least, making an honest living for folks born in, or brought to, poverty is extremely difficult. It not only takes a lot of hard work, but a lot of luck as well. You have to hope that you're lucky enough to get hired into a job that pays a living wage, lucky enough to avoid getting sick or hurt, lucky enough to hope that your car doesn't break down because you can't afford repairs right now, lucky enough to not get caught up in the gang violence that inevitably plagues poor areas.
Even the lucky folks may not be able to escape completely. There are folks who work their entire lives trying to support their families, and still need government aid just to keep the lights on and food on the table.
The world isn't black and white. Sometimes smart, able people find themselves stuck in bad situations, and find that they aren't able to climb back out without help. Sometimes stupid, lazy people find themselves very wealthy, and mistakenly assume that they're the norm.
In most cases, poverty is not a choice; it's a condition. You can fight against it with everything you've got, and sometimes you'll come out on top. A lot of times, you won't.
Welfare is necessary. Forcing people to uproot their lives and and cram themselves into worse housing and bad neighborhoods just to continue getting the help they need is despicable.[/QUOTE]
I'm not French
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882775]You make at least £1025/m pre-tax (based upon minimum wage). Rent in Aberdeen for a one bedroom would be ~£550/m - leaving you with £475/m. That's survivable - not exactly comfortable, but enough. Rent in most of the rest of the UK excluding London is less than that - so unless you live in London I can't really see the issue you're having moving out.[/QUOTE]
Until you factor in utilities, car payments, insurance, education supplies for your kids, unexpected expenses etc, etc. By the time you get to groceries for your kids, how much do you actually have left?
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882820]I'm not French[/QUOTE]
Okay.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43882828]Until you factor in utilities, car payments, insurance, education supplies for your kids, unexpected expenses etc, etc. By the time you get to groceries for your kids, how much do you actually have left?
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
Okay.[/QUOTE]
As I said earlier, single parents are one of the matters i understand relying on the benefits system.
I personally live on less than he makes at the moment, in the area I referred to earlier. I already factor in utilities, education supplies for myself, food, unexpected expenses, etc,etc.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882775]You make at least £1025/m pre-tax (based upon minimum wage). Rent in Aberdeen for a one bedroom would be ~£550/m - leaving you with £475/m. That's survivable - not exactly comfortable, but enough. Rent in most of the rest of the UK excluding London is less than that - so unless you live in London I can't really see the issue you're having moving out.[/QUOTE]
Council tax is between 75-100
Public transport is 50/m for bus, more for train
Driving is much much more
- A few 100 for food.
- 30ish for internet, then some more for phone
I would like to save up to finish my degree, I can only get 1 more year of student loan and I've been out for a while so if I go back I must redo 2nd year aswell as 3rd.
That said if I was desperate I could make it. There are people who, can't get as many hours as me, people who are less employable. If I had a car I would definitely not be able to get my own place, some people need cars to get to work.
You are somehow ignoring the large number of people who need benefits. I'm not sure if it is lack of world experience or some "I'm alright jack" attitude.
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
You wouldn't happen to be related to Ayn Rand would you?
It will be scrapped within the next two years anyway unless the Tories somehow manage to win in 2015
[QUOTE=smurfy;43882878]It will be scrapped within the next two years anyway unless the Tories somehow manage to win in 2015[/QUOTE]
Should of being scrapped a long time ago before any more damage was done.
Here's how it works btw
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Reform_Act_2012#Housing_Benefit[/url]
[quote]Under the Act, Housing Benefit criteria now take into consideration the number of rooms and number of people occupying a property and restrict payments to allow for one bedroom per person or per couple. If it is deemed that there are too many rooms in a rented dwelling for the number of occupants, an "under-occupancy penalty" is applied which reduces housing benefit by 14% for one extra room and by 25% for two or more extra bedrooms. This aspect of the Act has been popularly referred to as the "Bedroom Tax"; conversely (and in response) the government prefers to call the current arrangements a "spare room subsidy". The rule applies to tenants in local authority (council) and Housing Association accommodation (the rule was already in place for private housing tenants prior to the 2012 act) and a number of exemptions apply : all children under 10 of age are expected to share a room; children under 16 of the same gender expected to share; and carers of disabled tenants who need to stay overnight are permitted to have one extra bedroom.[/quote]
How do they know if you need to pay the tax? Do they have bedroom detector vans?
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882842]As I said earlier, single parents are one of the matters i understand relying on the benefits system.
I personally live on less than he makes at the moment, in the area I referred to earlier. I already factor in utilities, education supplies for myself, food, unexpected expenses, etc,etc.[/QUOTE]
You don't have children. And why aren't two-parent households applicable for government aid, in your eyes? Are they somehow magically protected from poverty? A married couple and their two children have an assload of expenses. Even if both parents are working, they need to find childcare to watch after their kids. Babysitters and daycares aren't cheap. They can run several hundred dollars a month, per child. Kids aren't cheap, in general.
What if they can only afford one car, and don't have proper access to public transportation, so one of the parents has to pay for a taxi to work, which is very expensive. What do they do when they need winter clothes? How do they get the basic securities that more well-off families take for granted?
And in the US, there's even medical bills to consider. Getting sick and having to go to the hospital can sink you into fifteen years or more of medical debt at the drop of a hat.
Hell, what about my own situation? We climbed out of poverty (due in equal parts to extremely hard work, and a lot of luck), and were living quite comfortably. Until our house began collapsing because of erosion. Thanks to some legal wiggling from the insurance companies and the city, and disputes over who actually owned the property that was steadily disappearing under our house, we got no insurance, no anything. We couldn't keep paying the mortgage on a house that was now doomed and worth nothing. We had to abandon it, and all the money we put into it, and went right back into bankruptcy.
Shit happens. People need help. It's not so black and white as you're pretending it is. Nobody should ever have to worry about housing, food, medical care, or education. These things should be a given in any society.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;43882820]I'm not French[/QUOTE]
You're certainly delusional
[QUOTE=meppers;43882957]How do they know if you need to pay the tax? Do they have bedroom detector vans?[/QUOTE]
I think you need to declare the status of your property when you apply for housing benefit; like how many bedrooms you have, garage, toilets, etc.
Although im surprised that has not become an urban myth like how the BBC used TV Detector Vans as a scare tactic to make you pay your TV License.
Not declaring your extra bedroom on your housing benefit application? No problem. We can just roll out the bedroom detector vans!
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43882980]You don't have children. And why aren't two-parent households applicable for government aid, in your eyes?[/quote]
A two parent household with one parent working full time and one parent working 9.30-2.30 wouldn't necessarily need childcare and would be earning enough to survive comfortably. Idealised circumstances sure, but it's not a hard push to say it's significantly easier than being a single parent.
[quote]What if they can only afford one car, and don't have proper access to public transportation[/quote]
This isn't the case in areas of the UK with the majority of council housing schemes. For example one of the local schemes in my city has a bus every 5-8 minutes going through the main arterial routes of the city.
[quote]What do they do when they need winter clothes? How do they get the basic securities that more well-off families take for granted?[/quote]
I know you guys in the US have it worse with a worse minimum wage, but in the UK the minimum wage is set so as it's not hard to get by in the long term. While unemployed its a different matter and these things would probably be out of reach (e.g. while on job seekers allowance); though there are plenty of jobs to keep people going around here.
[quote]And in the US, there's even medical bills to consider. Getting sick and having to go to the hospital can sink you into fifteen years or more of medical debt at the drop of a hat.[/quote]
Again, very unfortunate for you guys but irrelevant to this discussion.
[quote]Hell, what about my own situation? We climbed out of poverty (due in equal parts to extremely hard work, and a lot of luck), and were living quite comfortably. Until our house began collapsing because of erosion. Thanks to some legal wiggling from the insurance companies and the city, and disputes over who actually owned the property that was steadily disappearing under our house, we got no insurance, no anything. We couldn't keep paying the mortgage on a house that was now doomed and worth nothing. We had to abandon it, and all the money we put into it, and went right back into bankruptcy.[/quote]
That's very unfortunate - I can't bad mouth you there.
[QUOTE=TheCreeper;43883005]I think you need to declare the status of your property when you apply for housing benefit; like how many bedrooms you have, garage, toilets, etc.
Although im surprised that has not become an urban myth like how the BBC used TV Detector Vans as a scare tactic to make you pay your TV License.
Not declaring your extra bedroom on your housing benefit application? No problem. We can just roll out the bedroom detector vans![/QUOTE]
Housing benefits apply to council houses and houses obtained through housing organisations - so unless you modify a room to be a bedroom they already know how many bedrooms are there.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43882996]You're certainly delusional[/QUOTE]
Don't see how - I've only ever been to France twice in my life. Flagdog being wrong doesn't make me French.
-Snip-
Wow. I feel so stupid. I had the tab for another thread next to this one. Whoops.
[QUOTE=TheCreeper;43883241]Used the camera to follow a girl that was looking directly at it (OMG The camera is moving). She got uncomfortable and ran off.
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
Oh shit someone is using the camera.[/QUOTE]
In a thread about bedrooms, good one :wink:
[QUOTE=TheCreeper;43883241]Used the camera to follow a girl that was looking directly at it (OMG The camera is moving). She got uncomfortable and ran off.
[editline].[/editline]
Oh shit someone is using the camera.[/QUOTE]
This is outstanding.
of course everything is about profit
[QUOTE=The mouse;43882542]Will you people stop acting like this is direct attack on the poor. What the fuck would a government gain by attacking the voter base of whom they are most reliant on, quit pretending that there are a group of shadowy tories who sit upon a mountaintop mansion thinking of ways to fuck with the poor.
Firstly it isn't a tax, people on Housing benefit will have their benefits decreased if they have more rooms than they need as an incentive for them to leave for a house more suited to them. Secondly there are many people who need a house that can support their family, when there are couples who have 4 bedroom houses it doesn't make sense for them to retain that house when other people need it more.
The problem is that it has been poorly implemented due to the lack of definition as to what a spare room is and whether it's necessary and the completely irrational backlash by most people.[/QUOTE]
Is there really a housing shortage that is so bad in the UK that it requires people to either move out or lose a good portion of their benefits? If there is a housing shortage than shouldn't that mean that the house building market would be booming? There is something here that doesn't quite make sense.
I'm so glad I live in america; USA wins again brits!
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43891298]I'm so glad I live in america; USA wins again brits![/QUOTE]
The US has a pretty shitty system of housing benefits too, dude.
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