[QUOTE=Killuah;28895999]But you aren't. Fact.
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
Seeing what happened to the Wii, I think at least more than 50% of CFW users use it to pirate.[/QUOTE]
That's just a consequence. There's consequences with everything you do. I'm eating 5 day old meat balls right now. Consequence? I might be shitting hard in the next few ours.
Piracy will never stop, so long as the internet stands. Piracy itself is a consequence of the internet. So will use it for good, some will use it for bad.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28897645]Sony fanboys, Sony fanboys everywhere.
Not illegal to modify things you rightfully own. Try investing some time into investigating that over kissing phantom Sony ass on facepunch. Nothing he did was illegal, what people might have done with the information released might have been illegal but then that's why you punish them.
Don't punish the gun manufacturer, punish the murderer.[/QUOTE]
You don't own the software. If he was just messing with the hardware, Sony would not have cared as much (firstly because it is hard to do most times, secondly it voids warranty, so they make more money essentially), but he wasn't, he was messing with their software, which we do not have a licence for, and redistributing these modifications. This does not void warranty and was very easy to do, hence Sony's massive amounts of rage. As terribly handled as it has been.
[QUOTE=Sodisna;28897660]That's just a consequence. There's consequences with everything you do. I'm eating 5 day old meat balls right now. Consequence? I might be shitting hard in the next few ours.
Piracy will never stop, so long as the internet stands. Piracy itself is a consequence of the internet. So will use it for good, some will use it for bad.[/QUOTE]
There is a good side to piracy?
[QUOTE=Swilly;28897857]There is a good side to piracy?[/QUOTE]
There's a good side to a lot of things that "cost" money to these companies.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28897988]There's a good side to a lot of things that "cost" money to these companies.[/QUOTE]
Well I am a pirate so I'd like to know :v:
yes I was playing devil's advocate this whole time.
[QUOTE=Swilly;28898004]Well I am a pirate so I'd like to know :v:
yes I was playing devil's advocate this whole time.[/QUOTE]
We always think of piracy as being a similar form to stealing, well, piracy is really a form of P2P distribution. The upsides of which are infinite. P2P sharing really changes the name of the game on a lot of these things, companies are still behind the times because that's where the money is, and rightfully so.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28898040]We always think of piracy as being a similar form to stealing, well, piracy is really a form of P2P distribution. The upsides of which are infinite. P2P sharing really changes the name of the game on a lot of these things, companies are still behind the times because that's where the money is, and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]
But this isn't p2p distribution we're arguing about, it's piracy. Honestly, the only real upside to piracy I can think of is getting a proper benchmark and/or impression of the game when there isn't a benchmark tool or demo and even so, the amount of people who still don't buy the game is vastly bigger than the amount of people who buy the game.
[QUOTE=jaykray;28894438]Pretty much yeah, Geohot has never done anything for me, Sony has, so from my point of view Sony are better. Obviously people have different opinions.[/QUOTE]
It's kind of unsettling and upsetting how little you understand.
[QUOTE=Within;28898590]It's kind of unsettling and upsetting how little you understand.[/QUOTE]
he's just some spoiled rotten 15 year old.
GeoHot is fighting for your consumer rights so I hope he wins.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28897645]Sony fanboys, Sony fanboys everywhere.
Not illegal to modify things you rightfully own. Try investing some time into investigating that over kissing phantom Sony ass on facepunch. Nothing he did was illegal, what people might have done with the information released might have been illegal but then that's why you punish them.
Don't punish the gun manufacturer, punish the murderer.[/QUOTE]
Not so much Sony fanboys as corporate apologists.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28898147]But this isn't p2p distribution we're arguing about, it's piracy. Honestly, the only real upside to piracy I can think of is getting a proper benchmark and/or impression of the game when there isn't a benchmark tool or demo and even so, the amount of people who still don't buy the game is vastly bigger than the amount of people who buy the game.[/QUOTE]
There is almost no data on that, how can you say that so certainly?
And yes, you're right, I got my head mixed around, but they're very closely related.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28899421]There is almost no data on that, how can you say that so certainly?[/quote]
As strange as it sounds, I don't use data to say this certainly but human nature. Think about it. Someone downloads a game because it doesn't have a demo or a benchmark tool. He installs it, cracks it and then plays it for, say, an hour and comes to the conclusion it both runs well and is pretty damn awesome. Of course, he COULD now uninstall it and go buy it. Then again, he's got a perfectly functioning copy installed on his PC right now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that most pirates tend to say 'why spend money I could spend on food or repairs or other necessities when I've essentially have the real deal here'.
I fucking hope Geohot wins, since if he wins the consumers wins.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28896464]That's called being careless. Just because you failed to see them when unpacking your PS3 doesn't grant you immunity from it.[/QUOTE]
You posted in a thread I posted in. I have a TOS that states that you agree to my TOS when you post in a thread I posted in. You now owe me all your possessions. Didn't see it? But you posted! You agreed!
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28899326]Not so much Sony fanboys as corporate apologists.[/QUOTE]
I want to throw something at you. I am a Sony Fanboy! I fucking hate corporations for the most part but I love Sony's Developer plan with their different in house studios.
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Moustach3;28900302]You posted in a thread I posted in. I have a TOS that states that you agree to my TOS when you post in a thread I posted in. You now owe me all your possessions. Didn't see it? But you posted! You agreed![/QUOTE]
the TOS battle is one that should be fought soon, and this is with all software in general.
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28899584]As strange as it sounds, I don't use data to say this certainly but human nature. Think about it. Someone downloads a game because it doesn't have a demo or a benchmark tool. He installs it, cracks it and then plays it for, say, an hour and comes to the conclusion it both runs well and is pretty damn awesome. Of course, he COULD now uninstall it and go buy it. Then again, he's got a perfectly functioning copy installed on his PC right now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that most pirates tend to say 'why spend money I could spend on food or repairs or other necessities when I've essentially have the real deal here'.[/QUOTE]
The only games I pirate are old as fuck ones I can't get any other way.
I'll get banned for this but I'm tired of this ban on wares, piracy isn't evil.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28899584]Then again, he's got a perfectly functioning copy installed on his PC right now.[/QUOTE]
Very rarely is a pirated copy of a PC game fully functional. MP usually doesn't work.
[QUOTE=Moustach3;28900302]You posted in a thread I posted in. I have a TOS that states that you agree to my TOS when you post in a thread I posted in. You now owe me all your possessions. Didn't see it? But you posted! You agreed![/QUOTE]
Did I ever get the opportunity to see said ToS before posting in a thread you've posted in? Did you personally ever present me with said ToS? You didn't so I can challenge that.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28900438]Very rarely is a pirated copy of a PC game fully functional. MP usually doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
Tell that to Call of Duty 4 :v:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28900438]Very rarely is a pirated copy of a PC game fully functional. MP usually doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
I took SP only games as an example since they tend to suffer the most.
What are you guys talking about? Most games that don't require Steam, you can get the MP fully working.
[QUOTE=Swilly;28900455]Tell that to Call of Duty 4 :v:[/QUOTE]
crysis 2
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;28900535]crysis 2[/QUOTE]
Hell, Civ V
ATTN ALL TOS ARGUERS
TOS DOES NOT A LEGAL ARGUMENT CONSTITUTE
This is known as a shrink wrap ToS IIRC.
It's a ToS you only know about and are only able to agree to once you have already paid for the product.
Because you purchased the product already, prior to agreeing to the TOS, you are legally able to do anything with it, as the ToS isn't legally binding even if you agree to it.
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;28896840]Sony will never win this case.
However, they will most likely strength their EULA in the future, or perhaps forcing the user to accept the agreement upon turning on the console for the first time even if he or she decides not to sign up for the online services.[/QUOTE]
It still wouldn't legally bind you from anything.
[QUOTE=Treybuchet;28900607]ATTN ALL TOS ARGUERS
TOS DOES NOT A LEGAL ARGUMENT CONSTITUTE
This is known as a shrink wrap ToS IIRC.
It's a ToS you only know about and are only able to agree to once you have already paid for the product.
Because you purchased the product already, prior to agreeing to the TOS, you are legally able to do anything with it, as the ToS isn't legally binding even if you agree to it.[/QUOTE]
You can read their ToS on their various websites. So not having a chance to read it isn't valid. But it is stupid you have to accept it to use the console basically (not the PSN ToS before anybody starts with that, the console and software ToS itself).
[QUOTE=Treybuchet;28900607]ATTN ALL TOS ARGUERS
TOS DOES NOT A LEGAL ARGUMENT CONSTITUTE
This is known as a shrink wrap ToS IIRC.
It's a ToS you only know about and are only able to agree to once you have already paid for the product.
Because you purchased the product already, prior to agreeing to the TOS, you are legally able to do anything with it, as the ToS isn't legally binding even if you agree to it.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html]Wrong, here's the PSN ToS[/url]
[url=http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html]And here's the PS3 Software EULA[/url]
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;28900662]But it is stupid you have to accept it to use the console basically[/QUOTE]
I don't really see the problem. You're using their stuff and their service, it's only fair you say you'll follow the rules.
You know if I made a console and some guy could take it apart, and make it do something else in a matter of months, completely circumventing every countermeasure I had put in place, I'd probably offer him a job. Oh wait, that would make sense.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28900698][url=http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html]Wrong, here's the PSN ToS[/url]
[url=http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html]And here's the PS3 Software EULA[/url]
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
I don't really see the problem. You're using their stuff and their service, it's only fair you say you'll follow the rules.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but propose you b uy your PS3 from someone who isn't Sony, such as a store or a friend.
Or that you don't have, say, internet access.
In those cases, you would still, owning the product, have to deal with said contracts, but would not have reasonable knowledge of stated agreements, and therefore be not considered part of it. The fact that you have purchased the product without knowing you would be agreeing to a contract with Sony in doing so is the inherent flaw here.
[QUOTE=Swilly;28897857]There is a good side to piracy?[/QUOTE]
I know you were playing devils advocate but there really actually is.
For example, the first time I watched Repo! The Genetic Opera, it was online.
It was instantly one of my favorite movies.
From there, I bought it on DVD.
If not for my pirated copy of the movie, I would never have discovered it and therefor, would never had bought it.
[QUOTE=Treybuchet;28900793]Yes, but propose you b uy your PS3 from someone who isn't Sony, such as a store or a friend.
Or that you don't have, say, internet access.
In those cases, you would still, owning the product, have to deal with said contracts, but would not have reasonable knowledge of stated agreements, and therefore be not considered part of it. The fact that you have purchased the product without knowing you would be agreeing to a contract with Sony in doing so is the inherent flaw here.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the PSN ToS but the box contains a paper copy of the Software ToS so you can't say you didn't have the chance to read that. As for the 'buying it off a friend', you'd do well to check the box if it's in there or if not, borrow someone elses internet access to read up on the ToS.
And this is something I'm not entirely sure of, but I also think the ToS states that if you don't want to abide by them, you are allowed to return the PS3 to where you bought it from with a full refund. If they don't, contact Sony.
[editline]30th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SSBMX;28900860]I know you were playing devils advocate but there really actually is.
For example, the first time I watched Repo! The Genetic Opera, it was online.
It was instantly one of my favorite movies.
From there, I bought it on DVD.
If not for my pirated copy of the movie, I would never have discovered it and therefor, would never had bought it.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, somebody else who's seen it?
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