British actor Idris Elba cannot star as James Bond because he is black, says Rush Limbaugh - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sgman91;46789958]There's a difference between something being racial and something being racist. He doesn't want a black James Bond because it doesn't fit, not because he is black. He also doesn't want Daniel Craig because he didn't fit for other reasons. Not all racial reasons are inherently wrong. It isn't wrong to want an asian actor to play an asian character, a black actor to play a black character, or a white actor to play a white character, and so far, James Bond has been a white character. You may not care about him staying that way, but that doesn't mean that everyone who disagrees must hate black people. They might just want some semblance of James Bond looking like James Bond.[/QUOTE] james bond is not one character this has been firmly established multiple times over the course of the series, both in and out of universe james bond is no more white than The Doctor is scottish

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46790052]james bond is not one character this has been firmly established multiple times over the course of the series, both in and out of universe james bond is no more white than The Doctor is scottish[/QUOTE] This has been shown to be incorrect like 5 times already in this thread. There are quite a few references, especially in Skyfall, to other Bonds as the same person.

I feel like my argument has been twisted and skewered every which way to make it sound like it's not supposed to sound, so I'm going to try and explain this again in a way which makes it clearer: My argument is NOT that Elba can't play a James Bond style character BECAUSE he's black. My argument is that I don't like Elba playing THE James Bond character, because the precedent has been set in the franchise that James Bond is a certain person with certain traits. He has his own stereotype and characteristics at this point. I don't like it when franchises switch up things that have to do with the main character all willy nilly like that without putting some effort into it. Daniel Craig didn't fit the stereotype of James Bond either. I didn't like him either. It just so happens that with Elba, the part of him that doesn't fit the James Bond stereotype IS partly that he is black, and a few other things (IMHO, he's too fit and muscular. The older James Bonds have always had a little bit of a love handle, normal physique type thing going on.) Let's go over this again. I'm not saying that he wouldn't be good BECAUSE he's black (implying that he isn't a very talented actor), I'm saying that it's one of the reasons he doesn't fit in to the James Bond stereotype. James Bond ISN'T a code name. It's the character's actual name. Now, if they would turn it into a code name, that would make more sense and it would work with the story and work out the kinks just fine. But that's NOT what they are doing. To imply such is just grasping at straws. To me, it's like replacing Terry Crews in a franchise with Chuck Norris. Is Chuck Norris a good enough actor to pull it off? Sure. Would I like it? No. The reason being that the character in the franchise would have the traits of Terry Crews, not Chuck Norris. Does any of this make sense to anybody out there?????

It makes perfect sense to anyone without an agenda.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790099]I feel like my argument has been twisted and skewered every which way to make it sound like it's not supposed to sound, so I'm going to try and explain this again in a way which makes it clearer: My argument is NOT that Elba can't play a James Bond style character BECAUSE he's black. My argument is that I don't like Elba playing THE James Bond character, because the precedent has been set in the franchise that James Bond is a certain person with certain traits. He has his own stereotype and characteristics at this point. I don't like it when franchises switch up things that have to do with the main character all willy nilly like that without putting some effort into it. Daniel Craig didn't fit the stereotype of James Bond either. I didn't like him either. It just so happens that with Elba, the part of him that doesn't fit the James Bond stereotype IS partly that he is black, and a few other things (IMHO, he's too fit and muscular. The older James Bonds have always had a little bit of a love handle, normal physique type thing going on.) Let's go over this again. I'm not saying that he wouldn't be good BECAUSE he's black (implying that he isn't a very talented actor), I'm saying that it's one of the reasons he doesn't fit in to the James Bond stereotype. James Bond ISN'T a code name. It's the character's actual name. Now, if they would turn it into a code name, that would make more sense and it would work with the story and work out the kinks just fine. But that's NOT what they are doing. To imply such is just grasping at straws. To me, it's like replacing Terry Crews in a franchise with Chuck Norris. Is Chuck Norris a good enough actor to pull it off? Sure. Would I like it? No. The reason being that the character in the franchise would have the traits of Terry Crews, not Chuck Norris. Does any of this make sense to anybody out there?????[/QUOTE] The only thing you have supporting your argument is that Idris is too fit Well guess what he worked his way up to being a Royal Navy Commander so too bad if he doesn't look like your dad [editline]25th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;46790114]It makes perfect sense to anyone without an agenda.[/QUOTE] Except there is no "agenda" going on This only shows that you think we're trying to "blackify" Bond Alternatively people could think that he would actually make a good James Bond?? WOAH [editline]25th December 2014[/editline] Fucks sake Fleming wrote Bond to be Scottish [B]because[/B] of Connery's portrayal [quote]It was not until the penultimate novel, You Only Live Twice, that Fleming gave Bond a sense of family background, using a fictional obituary, purportedly from The Times. The book was the second to be written after the release of Dr. No in cinemas and Sean Connery's depiction of Bond affected Fleming's interpretation of the character, to give Bond both a sense of humour and Scottish antecedents that were not present in the previous stories. The novel reveals Bond is the son of a Scottish father, Andrew Bond, of Glencoe, and a Swiss mother, Monique Delacroix, of the Canton de Vaud. The young James Bond spends much of his early life abroad, becoming multilingual in German and French because of his father's work as a Vickers armaments company representative. When his parents are killed in a mountain climbing accident in the Aiguilles Rouges near Chamonix, eleven-year-old James is orphaned.[/quote] he'd probably think that you are all retarded

[QUOTE=Jund;46790145]The only thing you have supporting your argument is that Idris is too fit Well guess what he worked his way up to being a Royal Navy Commander so too bad if he doesn't look like your dad [editline]25th December 2014[/editline] Except there is no "agenda" going on This only shows that you think we're trying to "blackify" Bond Alternatively people could think that he would actually make a good James Bond?? WOAH [editline]25th December 2014[/editline] Fucks sake Fleming wrote Bond to be Scottish [B]because[/B] of Connery's portrayal he'd probably think that you are all retarded[/QUOTE] The problem I have is with messing with an established character without giving a reason. If they would have done like xXx did and did something on the lines of "Our previous agent was killed, and you're his replacement", that would be 100% A-OK in my books because you're not messing with an established character, you're creating a new one with his own background, his own traits, his own stereotype. In fact, it would have allowed Idris to be able to bring 007 alive in his own way and his own style instead of handcuffing him to a past character that he doesn't fit in to. You may not mind when studios mess with established characters, but I do, no matter which way it goes.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46789123]Weird how all these people who are concerned about non-white people playing typically white roles (like james bond, dr who, whatever) are nowhere to be seen when movies like new akira and exodus are announced.[/QUOTE] Yeah it is quite funny. "Political correctness" amirite...

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790188]The problem I have is with messing with an established character without giving a reason. If they would have done like xXx did and did something on the lines of "Our previous agent was killed, and you're his replacement", that would be 100% A-OK in my books because you're not messing with an established character, you're creating a new one with his own background, his own traits, his own stereotype. In fact, it would have allowed Idris to be able to bring 007 alive in his own way and his own style instead of handcuffing him to a past character that he doesn't fit in to. You may not mind when studios mess with established characters, but I do, no matter which way it goes.[/QUOTE] I still don't see your point. There's been multiple Bonds, and they've all had varying personality traits. Craig is way different than Brosnan. They're totally different people. Part of what makes James Bond James Bond is that they don't explain why people switch. The actors just switch. It's what happens. The fact that this was never an issue for you until it was a black guy is silly. Connery doesn't look like an older Brosnan in the slightest. They're the same character, but different actors. They have different personalities. What's the issue if his skin color changes?

[QUOTE=.Isak.;46790204]I still don't see your point. There's been multiple Bonds, and they've all had varying personality traits. Craig is way different than Brosnan. They're totally different people. Part of what makes James Bond James Bond is that they don't explain why people switch. The actors just switch. It's what happens. The fact that this was never an issue for you until it was a black guy is silly. Connery doesn't look like an older Brosnan in the slightest. They're the same character, but different actors. They have different personalities. What's the issue if his skin color changes?[/QUOTE] Did you hear?? Everyone who has problems with race/actor switching just got Internet access today What a time to be alive

He'd make a great Bond and if you think other wise you're probably just a racist tbh.

he'd make an ok bond but hes not really an outstanding actor or anything the whole elba for bond thing has always come across as rather racist for me because it seems like "lets get a black bond cuz we can" instead of "lets cast this black man as bond because hes perfect for the role"

I don't get why there is such a big argument over this when he hasn't even been confirmed as the new James Bond. All we have to go on is an email simply stating. [QUOTE]“Idris should be the next bond.”[/QUOTE] If he does become the next James Bond, all I care about is if the movie is any good.

[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;46790243]he'd make an ok bond but hes not really an outstanding actor or anything the whole elba for bond thing has always come across as rather racist for me because it seems like "lets get a black bond cuz we can" instead of "lets cast this black man as bond because hes perfect for the role"[/QUOTE] Or rather, you're choosing to interpret other people's motivations so that they fit a narrative you see as "racist." Meanwhile in reality, loads of people have been saying throughout this thread that Elba would make a fantastic Bond because he fits the role, not because they want to see a black man playing a traditionally white role regardless of his/her acting talent. Also, watch The Wire.

snip, broken automerge

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790188]The problem I have is with messing with an established character without giving a reason. [/QUOTE] Why do they need to give a reason? Why does the audience need to be hand-fed every little piece of information? Can't we just settle for "it's a new movie, it's a new actor"? What really boggles my mind is why on earth would someone who cares SO much about continuity that he can't even get past different physical traits in actors be a Bond fan out of all things? The continuity (if you can even call it that) is already fucked up, why does a black 007 bother you more than the leaps in time and technology or the incredibly useful weapons and gadgets that somehow stop being used from movie to movie?

Question - Would you guys be okay if Ken Watanabe (let's pretend for one second that his English is impeccable) was cast as Bond? [editline]25th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=RopaDope;46789913]can we get a ban for a horrible joke in here?[/QUOTE] It's a joke, dude. Lighten up a bit. Last time I checked, backseat moderation is a bannable offense. You might wanna snip that.

[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;46790243]he'd make an ok bond but hes not really an outstanding actor or anything the whole elba for bond thing has always come across as rather racist for me because it seems like "lets get a black bond cuz we can" instead of "lets cast this black man as bond because hes perfect for the role"[/QUOTE] I want Elba as Bond because I think he'd portray the best and most authentic bond we've ever seen since Connery. [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;46790005]Are you literally ignoring the part about Daniel Craig not quite looking the part either on purpose? Here, let me quote where he specifically mentioned it:[/QUOTE] No. I'm not ignoring that when I directly talk about it, how could I talk about something while ignoring it? You, on the other hand, are ignoring everything you can to single in on one thing.

[QUOTE=maeZtro;46784419]While I think Elba would do a great job I kind of agree with Limbaugh. (never thought I would write that, ever). Bond has always been white and making him black just seems strange. Then again I was annoyed when they made bond a blonde and in hindsight I think Craig did a pretty good job.[/QUOTE] This bugged me at first too, but Craig has very rapidly become my favourite Bond because he plays a sociopath way better than any previous incarnations.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;46790204]I still don't see your point. There's been multiple Bonds, and they've all had varying personality traits. Craig is way different than Brosnan. They're totally different people. Part of what makes James Bond James Bond is that they don't explain why people switch. The actors just switch. It's what happens. The fact that this was never an issue for you until it was a black guy is silly. Connery doesn't look like an older Brosnan in the slightest. They're the same character, but different actors. They have different personalities. What's the issue if his skin color changes?[/QUOTE] I had an issue with Craig as well. You would have noticed that if you had read any of my other replies. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46790319]Why do they need to give a reason? Why does the audience need to be hand-fed every little piece of information? Can't we just settle for "it's a new movie, it's a new actor"? What really boggles my mind is why on earth would someone who cares SO much about continuity that he can't even get past different physical traits in actors be a Bond fan out of all things? The continuity (if you can even call it that) is already fucked up, why does a black 007 bother you more than the leaps in time and technology or the incredibly useful weapons and gadgets that somehow stop being used from movie to movie?[/QUOTE] Sure, it's a new movie in the same franchise using an already established character. Would you also not have a problem with Gandalf being replaced by someone who doesn't fit the stereotype of that character? [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46790388]I want Elba as Bond because I think he'd portray the best and most authentic bond we've ever seen since Connery.[/QUOTE] I would agree to this if he didn't have to portray himself as an already-established character. I think it will hold him back more than anything.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790412]I had an issue with Craig as well. You would have noticed that if you had read any of my other replies. Sure, it's a new movie in the same franchise using an already established character. Would you also not have a problem with Gandalf being replaced by someone who doesn't fit the stereotype of that character? I would agree to this if he didn't have to portray himself as an already-established character. I think it will hold him back more than anything.[/QUOTE] If the only quality of Gandalf that changed was his skin tone, I wouln't give a shit. I've asked this question a bunch of times, I want an answer from someone. If superman was written to be black in the next incarnation of the character, would this be wrong?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46790422]If the only quality of Gandalf that changed was his skin tone, I wouln't give a shit. I've asked this question a bunch of times, I want an answer from someone. If superman was written to be black in the next incarnation of the character, would this be wrong?[/QUOTE] If it was written for him to be black, I would not give a single fuck. If James Bond had been a black man who looked and presented himself like Idris Elba, I would not give a single fuck. I just have a problem with sudden large unexplained changes to established characters. That's it. Bottom line.

[QUOTE=Saigon;46789029]Don't kid yourself, it's a trend lately to replace well established characters with black characters for political correctness. What do you think would happen if they made well established black characters white?[/QUOTE] ratios. list of established black characters in pop culture: | list of established white characters in pop culture: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790436]If it was written for him to be black, I would not give a single fuck. If James Bond had been a black man who looked and presented himself like Idris Elba, I would not give a single fuck. I just have a problem with sudden large unexplained changes to established characters. That's it. Bottom line.[/QUOTE] So no character, no matter how long running the character, can be changed? What's the margin on that? As obviously, somethings can be changed or else you'd be stuck in the 50's or something not enjoying literally anything that changes anything on established characters. Is the only Bond Connery? Isn't he by your definition, the only Bond possible? [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] If some changes are okay, why isn't a skin tone change? A slight change in genealogy? Do old franchises have to maintain their original ideology and never grow? To be frank, I don't understand the inherit hypocrisy that you must use to maintain this mindset.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46790448]So no character, no matter how long running the character, can be changed? What's the margin on that? As obviously, somethings can be changed or else you'd be stuck in the 50's or something not enjoying literally anything that changes anything on established characters. Is the only Bond Connery? Isn't he by your definition, the only Bond possible? [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] If some changes are okay, why isn't a skin tone change? A slight change in genealogy? Do old franchises have to maintain their original ideology and never grow? To be frank, I don't understand the inherit hypocrisy that you must use to maintain this mindset.[/QUOTE] Of course sometimes a character must be changed. Usually, these are replaced by people who generally fit the same build, body type, style as the previous one. However, if there should be a large change (like extreme skin tone change, genealogy, etc...), it needs to be done properly. There needs to be something done to wrap up the existing character to let the new one come it. It has the double up-side of explaining the change in a way that benefits the story, and it also lets the new actor be able to create his own new characteristics for the character. It allows him to establish himself in the franchise and make it HIS franchise, instead of it being someone else's franchise he's continuing.

I disagree that anything along those lines should be spoonfed to audiences in the way you require. Whilst I agree there's a tiny issue with bringing in a black Bond, it's just because of Skyfall and it's very specific ending, if that film hadn't done that there would be nothing to explain away as you require. However, all it takes is saying that Bond is black now and that's the universe we're working with. I think people should be able to understand that. I'm not particularly bright, but I'm certain I could handle that. So I feel other people must be able to handle that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46790485]I disagree that anything along those lines should be spoonfed to audiences in the way you require. Whilst I agree there's a tiny issue with bringing in a black Bond, it's just because of Skyfall and it's very specific ending, if that film hadn't done that there would be nothing to explain away as you require. However, all it takes is saying that Bond is black now and that's the universe we're working with. I think people should be able to understand that. I'm not particularly bright, but I'm certain I could handle that. So I feel other people must be able to handle that.[/QUOTE] And that's the main disagreement here. It's not really because he's black. It's because it's a major character change and I feel that it would be in their best interest to have a transition to end the old bond and open up the new one.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46789986]Looking like who? A generic white guy who doesn't really fit any one description?[/QUOTE] Fleming wanted Bond to look like Hoagy Carmichael: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Hoagy_Carmichael_-_1947.jpg/220px-Hoagy_Carmichael_-_1947.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46790502]And that's the main disagreement here. It's not really because he's black. It's because it's a major character change and I feel that it would be in their best interest to have a transition to end the old bond and open up the new one.[/QUOTE] But they don't do that for white bonds. Why for a black bond? [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Saigon;46790505]Fleming wanted Bond to look like Hoagy Carmichael: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Hoagy_Carmichael_-_1947.jpg/220px-Hoagy_Carmichael_-_1947.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] So what? I don't care what Flemming wanted. And apparently, neither does just about any movie, so pointing at him like it matters doesn't show me anything. Flemming also held pretty typical views for someone his age at that time period, he would largely be considered an actual racist today. Does that matter? Only if you think it matters what he thinks about the actor playing Bond. I don't think either matters in todays version of Bond. [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] Hey Saigon, why don't you answer my question? Can superman be rewritten as black or would that be an issue for you? Also, there's not a single Bond that looks like that guy.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46790506]But they don't do that for white bonds. Why for a black bond?[/QUOTE] Why are you acting like it's black and white (no pun intended) and all changes are equivalent? Some things (like one fairly normal looking white guy changing into another fairly normal looking white guy who both have similar hair) require less explanation than a white guy turning into a black guy. You can, with some imagination believe that the two white guys are just different actors playing the same character... but no one in their right mind would think that a black guy is the same guy that was previously white.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46790522]Why are you acting like it's black and white (no pun intended) and all changes are equivalent? Some things (like one fairly normal looking white guy changing into another fairly normal looking white guy who both have similar hair) require less explanation than a white guy turning into a black guy. You can, with some imagination believe that the two white guys are just different actors playing the same guy... but no one in their right mind would think that a black guy is the same guy that was previously white.[/QUOTE] Because if you give a shit about the cannon of the books you'd be appalled by every bond film after the 70's because they all take WILD liberties with the material so I have to wonder why people suddenly have SUCH an issue with the next change being the character's skin tone, which has literally never been a thing of import in the series. [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] Also, I could just believe that he was now black because that's what was going to work for the series. I could believe that. So clearly, your blanket statement "no one would believe that" is inaccurate.