Dumbass cops "knock"/pound on man's door without identifying themselves @ 1:30AM, man opens door wit - Polidicks

[QUOTE=scout1;39609406]Anybody pointing a gun at you is dangerous, how is this hard to understand[/QUOTE] You DO know a cop has to identify himself unless you can't clearly see its a cop, right? Besides, a man opens the door with a gun in his hand and then gets shot. For that to happen so fast (assuming it did happen that fast), they probably had their weapons in hand right? Was that really necessary?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609600]So if I prepare to kill you, then you shoot me first?[/QUOTE] What? What does that have to do with what I said? AGAIN: I make you feel threatened, you get ready to defend yourself by grabbing a weapon, I kill you for having a weapon ready. Who's to blame? [QUOTE=scout1;39609600]There is such a thing as reasonable escalation of force. Pointing a gun at anyone knocking on your front door isn't reasonable.[/QUOTE] [B]Pounding [/B](not knocking) on your door at 1 AM indicates heated situation at the least. Now why the situation is heated you don't know. Nobody's giving you the reason for trying to get you out of the house or to get inside your house. Nobody's telling you who's at your door. Having a gun ready is not unreasonable.

[QUOTE=st_nick5;39609642]Me personally, I probably wouldn't have opened the door. At least until I knew who was out there. But that still doesn't justify the police's actions.[/QUOTE] It doesn't justify the police serving their function then defending themselves when a guy is pointing a gun at them?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609655]I don't see anything here that says they had their weapons at the ready when knocking? On the other hand we have a statement from the deputies saying the man did, now do you call that unreasonable too? I would.[/QUOTE] HELLO. I AM SCOUT1. I TAKE LITERALLY EVERYTHING AT FACE VALUE EXCEPT WHEN IT DISAGREES WITH MY OPINION. IN WHICH CASE I WILL TWIST IT AND ADD AN UNDERCURRENT OR SUBTLE MEANING TO IT TO MAKE THE PERSON LOOK LIKE AN IMBECILE. HAR HAR HAR.

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609647]no. ad-hominem would me be saying "you argue shit points so you can't talk" what i am asking is [I]why [/I] are you defending such shit points when it gets you nowhere and does absolutely nothing to benefit you and likely isn't even your actual opinion on the matter? Is it some sense of duty, some sense of pride or sick thrill? they will give you a medal, GI, but only when you are dead.[/QUOTE] You've taken lengths now to ridicule how "insane" (quote on quote) my opinions are so yeah, ad hom. Change up or get out okay? [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;39609648]The police were pointing their weapons at him first. [/QUOTE] According to

not to mention you cited stand your ground laws, when it was the bloke's OWN FUCKING HOUSE they were(in his view) intruding upon. he was well within his right to be armed and ready to defend his property.

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609662]HELLO. I AM SCOUT1. I TAKE LITERALLY EVERYTHING AT FACE VALUE EXCEPT WHEN IT DISAGREES WITH MY OPINION. IN WHICH CASE I WILL TWIST IT AND ADD AN UNDERCURRENT OR SUBTLE MEANING TO IT TO MAKE THE PERSON LOOK LIKE AN IMBECILE. HAR HAR HAR.[/QUOTE] Case in point

Excuse me for not having followed that argument, but the way I see it, they've murdered a innocent person in the dead of the night in his own house, how are they not jailed yet for this?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609665]You've taken lengths now to ridicule how "insane" (quote on quote) my opinions are so yeah, ad hom. Change up or get out okay? [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] According to[/QUOTE] i like how you say "according to" every single time someone says something remotely questionable, yet when i pulled the same you just brushed it aside without providing a source. god you are the most hypocritical twit i've met.

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609670]not to mention you cited stand your ground laws, when it was the bloke's OWN FUCKING HOUSE they were(in his view) intruding upon. he was well within his right to be armed and ready to defend his property.[/QUOTE] I cited it as an example of defending yourself, not being ready to kill anyone who comes near you in the morning hours

[QUOTE=scout1;39609686]I cited it as an example of defending yourself, not being ready to kill anyone who comes near you in the morning hours[/QUOTE] holy shit i think my eyes are starting to cross from all these self-contradictions

[QUOTE=scout1;39609641]Having a gun is different from having a gun pointed and ready to use[/QUOTE] If some guys were fucking pounding at my door at 1:30 AM, (who, by the way, hadn't identified themselves so they could be trying to rob me for all I know) and [I]pointing their fucking guns at me[/I], I'd sure as shit pull out my gun to defend myself too. [editline]contradiction[/editline] aka the exact same thing you're claiming the cops did

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609670]not to mention you cited stand your ground laws, when it was the bloke's OWN FUCKING HOUSE they were(in his view) intruding upon. he was well within his right to be armed and ready to defend his property.[/QUOTE] This. The police themselves created the situation where the guy felt threatened, so he decided to protect himself. He probably wouldn't have armed himself if they knew they were police. If the police had just announced themselves, he'd still be alive right now.

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609685]i like how you say "according to" every single time someone says something remotely questionable, yet when i pulled the same you just brushed it aside without providing a source. god you are the most hypocritical twit i've met.[/QUOTE] Well if you want to say "The police were pointing their weapons at the man when he opened the door" then yes I will ask for a source otherwise I can just say "The guy was a drunk-loaded crack-whoring white neo supremacist armed with two hundred automatic rifles and was verbally indicating his willingness to kill people" Do you see how that works?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609703]Well if you want to say "The police were pointing their weapons at the man when he opened the door" then yes I will ask for a source otherwise I can just say "The guy was a drunk-loaded crack-whoring white neo supremacist armed with two hundred automatic rifles and was verbally indicating his willingness to kill people" Do you see how that works?[/QUOTE] EXCEPT WHEN PRESSED FOR SOURCES YOURSELF. YOU FAILED TO PROVIDE.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609655][B]I don't see anything here that says they had their weapons at the ready when knocking?[/B] On the other hand we have a statement from the deputies saying the man did, now do you call that unreasonable too? I would.[/QUOTE] How else did they manage to unload on this guy before he had a chance to lower his weapon?

[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39609698]If some guys were fucking pounding at my door at 1:30 AM, (who, by the way, hadn't identified themselves so they could be trying to rob me for all I know) and [I]pointing their fucking guns at me[/I], I'd sure as shit pull out my gun to defend myself too.[/QUOTE] Two of you have said this now, please cite something saying the police were pointing their weapons first

[QUOTE=scout1;39609665]You've taken lengths now to ridicule how "insane" (quote on quote) my opinions are so yeah, ad hom. Change up or get out okay?[/QUOTE] I think it'd be better if [I]you[/I] got out. Just saying. The poor man felt threatened and prepared to defend himself from people [B]of which he did not know who it was[/B]. The cops didn't identify themselves anyways, which they should have (procedure and all that), and as such, they are to blame.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;39609711]How else did they manage to unload on this guy before he had a chance to lower his weapon?[/QUOTE] Surprise, training, hesitation I wouldn't shoot anybody in a police officer's uniform, I doubt an innocent man would either

[QUOTE=scout1;39609723]Surprise, training, hesitation I wouldn't shoot anybody in a police officer's uniform, I doubt an innocent man would either[/QUOTE] oh hey here's the old "dur if you were innocent you wouldn't react or have anything to hide" ad-hom.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609659]It doesn't justify the police serving their function then defending themselves when a guy is pointing a gun at them?[/QUOTE] Would you not get your gun out in a situation like this? Where someone unknown is pounding on your front door? It's the polices fault for not identifying themselves. If they just said "It's the police, open the door." none of this would have happened.

[QUOTE=st_nick5;39609700]This. The police themselves created the situation where the guy felt threatened, so he decided to protect himself. He probably wouldn't have armed himself if they knew they were police. If the police had just announced themselves, he'd still be alive right now.[/QUOTE] If he had simply come armed he'd be alive, too, but he pointed his weapon at them and this is what happens when you point your weapon at someone else who's armed

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609707]EXCEPT WHEN PRESSED FOR SOURCES YOURSELF. YOU FAILED TO PROVIDE.[/QUOTE] For example?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609723]Surprise, training, hesitation I wouldn't shoot anybody in a police officer's uniform, I doubt an innocent man would either[/QUOTE] He didn't even shoot them, they probably gunned him down as soon as they saw them, without any warning or chance to lower his weapon.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609665]According to[/QUOTE] Logic? Situation 1: cops pounding on the door, with their guns holstered. The guy opens the door, aiming at them, sees their uniforms and puts the weapon down, says "sorry I didn't know you are the police". The draw their guns tell him to drop it, he does, he proves he's the homeowner. Nobody dies. Situation 1: cops pounding on the door, with their guns drawn at the door. The guy opens the door, aiming at them, sees their uniforms but before he tries to put the weapon down, he's shot because the cops were already aiming at him.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609723]Surprise, training, hesitation I wouldn't shoot anybody in a police officer's uniform, I doubt an innocent man would either[/QUOTE] And in this situation their response to him not opening fire with the weapon they claim he pointed at them was to cut him down. Either they had their weapons at the ready(likely) and shot him immediately, or they drew and fired. Either way all they had to do was announce that they were police and this guy would still be alive.

[QUOTE=Kahgarak;39609715]I think it'd be better if [I]you[/I] got out. Just saying. The poor man felt threatened and prepared to defend himself from people [B]of which he did not know who it was[/B]. The cops didn't identify themselves anyways, which they should have (procedure and all that), and as such, they are to blame.[/QUOTE] Show me the procedure that says police must always identify themselves when knocking on someone's door [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609730]oh hey here's the old "dur if you were innocent you wouldn't react or have anything to hide" ad-hom.[/QUOTE] Uh I just [B]called him innocent[/B]

[QUOTE=scout1;39609714]Two of you have said this now, please cite something saying the police were pointing their weapons first[/QUOTE] Let's take this scenario. The police knock on his door. They haven't got their weapons at the ready. The guy opens the door holding the gun. He sees they're police, and is able to drop the gun. That didn't happen though. He opened the door, holding the gun, and was shot. They already had their guns ready. If they didn't, there would have been enough time for him to drop the gun. Of course, there's also the possibility that he did have enough time to drop the gun, and they still shot him. Which only makes the whole situation worse.

[QUOTE=Blazyd;39609732]Would you not get your gun out in a situation like this? Where someone unknown is pounding on your front door? It's the polices fault for not identifying themselves. If they just said "It's the police, open the door." none of this would have happened.[/QUOTE] I don't own a weapon for self-defense but yes I would. And I would have it securely ready, ask at the front door who they are, and when they failed to identify I'd tell them to fuck off, not open the door and point my gun at them.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609738]For example?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=scout1;39609525]See: Stand your ground laws, self-defense statutes[/QUOTE] i see no direct source link here, i see no quotation of the exact parts of the law you were referring to you're an imbecile, a terrible arguer, and a hypocrite. i hope you fall off your horse.