Dumbass cops "knock"/pound on man's door without identifying themselves @ 1:30AM, man opens door wit - Polidicks

[QUOTE=scout1;39609764]I don't own a weapon for self-defense but yes I would. And I would have it securely ready, ask at the front door who they are, and when they failed to identify I'd tell them to fuck off, not open the door and point my gun at them.[/QUOTE] I'll say this again: The only people saying he pointed the weapon at them are the very people who could get in a ton of trouble over this matter.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609747]Show me the procedure that says police must always identify themselves when knocking on someone's door [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] Uh I just [B]called him innocent[/B][/QUOTE] [B]They are taught to do this in training.[/B] There's no law requiring them to do so, but they're reminded to do it constantly while they are in training. It's common sense.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609764]I don't own a weapon for self-defense but yes I would. And I would have it securely ready, ask at the front door who they are, and when they failed to identify I'd tell them to fuck off, not open the door and point my gun at them.[/QUOTE] Then, the police burst through your door anyway, see you pointing the gun at them, and shoot the shit out of you. GG.

[QUOTE=st_nick5;39609756]Let's take this scenario. The police knock on his door. They haven't got their weapons at the ready. The guy opens the door holding the gun. He sees they're police, and is able to drop the gun. That didn't happen though. He opened the door, holding the gun, and was shot. They already had their guns ready. If they didn't, there would have been enough time for him to drop the gun. Of course, there's also the possibility that he did have enough time to drop the gun, and they still shot him. Which only makes the whole situation worse.[/QUOTE] You've opened your front door to police and just brushed it off? Let me tell you something: I got a visit from the police a year ago (roughly), and although they weren't even asking about me I nearly [B]pissed myself.[/B] I stumbled over all my words, gave bad directions, and made the cops think I was lying to them. It's not so simple as "Automatically drop your gun". It is so simple as "Automatically draw your weapon and fire" when [B]you're trained to do that very thing in the event your life is in danger (hint: it was).[/B] [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609766]i see no direct source link here, i see no quotation of the exact parts of the law you were referring to you're an imbecile, a terrible arguer, and a hypocrite. i hope you fall off your horse.[/QUOTE] Okay then I can get the direct links if you want, but I cited exact laws that you can easily google (and failed to do so) as opposed to [B]refusing to provide any source at all[/B]

[QUOTE=scout1;39609655]I don't see anything here that says they had their weapons at the ready when knocking? On the other hand we have a statement from the deputies saying the man did, now do you call that unreasonable too? I would.[/QUOTE] If the man had his gun pointing at them and ready to shoot, how in the hell would he not get a shot at them first if they didn't even have their weapons ready as you claim? He obviously was just prepared for danger when he opened the door, and didn't fire at the first chance he got. Or else he definitely would've been able to simply pull the trigger in the amount of time the officers had to pull their guns out and fire.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609781] Let me tell you something: I got a visit from the police a year ago (roughly), and although they weren't even asking about me I nearly [B]pissed myself.[/B] I stumbled over all my words, gave bad directions, and made the cops think I was lying to them. [/QUOTE] according to? oh and nice job using subjective personal experience of you being socially awkward towards the police. i am certain [I]every human being ever[/I] is like this. your subjective experiences are indicative of the whole of humanity.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;39609773]I'll say this again: The only people saying he pointed the weapon at them are the very people who could get in a ton of trouble over this matter.[/QUOTE] So everytime a police officer shoots someone without witnesses, I guess it was unjustifiable homocide because we can't trust the officer's word? There's a reason courts define guilt as beyond reasonable doubt, not "the slightest suspicion someone had something to lose"

[QUOTE=scout1;39609747]Show me the procedure that says police must always identify themselves when knocking on someone's door[/QUOTE] For God's sake, [B]they are trained[/B] to do so. Why can't you just accept the clear fact that the officers are to blame for the man's death?

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609647]Is it some sense of duty, some sense of pride or sick thrill? [/QUOTE] Playing the devil's advocate is good practice actually

[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39609777][B]They are taught to do this in training.[/B] There's no law requiring them to do so, but they're reminded to do it constantly while they are in training. It's common sense.[/QUOTE] Again we'll do [citation needed] Also if there's no requirement, what's the point? SWAT can serve no-knock warrants, among other things. Identifying themselves is not a requirement.

it seems pretty presumptuous to assume that the person you only suspect of murder will immediately sneak around and shoot at you as soon as he realizes you're cops

[QUOTE=scout1;39609799]Again we'll do [citation needed] Also if there's no requirement, what's the point? SWAT can serve no-knock warrants, among other things. Identifying themselves is not a requirement.[/QUOTE] citation needed on the swat no-knock warrant thing pls. oh not to mention the fact [B]this was deputies and not a fucking swat team. did you read the article? because it seems like you [I]didn't.[/I][/B]

So, scout1 is definitely one of the dumbest people I've ever seen try to argue over and over. Let's all hope he's high or drunk.

[QUOTE=st_nick5;39609779]Then, the police burst through your door anyway, see you pointing the gun at them, and shoot the shit out of you. GG.[/QUOTE] Except at that point they're going to have to call in a squad, get the flashing light and sirens, surround the place, get the whole getup going, and by that time it becomes [B]readily apparent they are police[/B] They have no legal right before that to enter your house. A motorcycle outside the house != extenuating circumstances and they can not barge their way in [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=locojaws;39609787]If the man had his gun pointing at them and ready to shoot, how in the hell would he not get a shot at them first if they didn't even have their weapons ready as you claim? He obviously was just prepared for danger when he opened the door, and didn't fire at the first chance he got. Or else he definitely would've been able to simply pull the trigger in the amount of time the officers had to pull their guns out and fire.[/QUOTE] Inference is not proof

[QUOTE=scout1;39609810]Except at that point they're going to have to call in a squad, get the flashing light and sirens, surround the place, get the whole getup going, and by that time it becomes [B]readily apparent they are police[/B] They have no legal right before that to enter your house. A motorcycle outside the house != extenuating circumstances and they can not barge their way in[/QUOTE] then why did they have a right to shoot the man dead on his doorstep purely because he reacted defensively when - evidently to him - intruders or possibly deranged people were attempting to enter?

scout are you one of the officers? Because you sound like one of them and trying to defend yourself.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609810]Except at that point they're going to have to call in a squad, get the flashing light and sirens, surround the place, get the whole getup going, and by that time it becomes [B]readily apparent they are police[/B] [/QUOTE] Is it a bad thing to make it apparent they're police?

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609789]according to? oh and nice job using subjective personal experience of you being socially awkward towards the police. i am certain [I]every human being ever[/I] is like this. your subjective experiences are indicative of the whole of humanity.[/QUOTE] Yes I responded to guessing with a personal experience. i.e. there wasn't a higher standard to match Nice job

[QUOTE=scout1;39609827]Yes I responded to guessing with a personal experience. i.e. there wasn't a higher standard to match Nice job[/QUOTE] please provide me with some proper sources instead of refusing to give them. you called me out for this, so practice what you motherfucking preach.

[QUOTE=Kahgarak;39609794]For God's sake, [B]they are trained[/B] to do so. Why can't you just accept the clear fact that the officers are to blame for the man's death?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39609446]So? It's still the cops' fault for not following the proper procedure. I really don't see what you're trying to accomplish here.[/QUOTE] This has been the post I was replying to, which claimed it was a procedural violation. I have not yet seen any such procedure. [editline]16th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Anal Rat;39609809]So, scout1 is definitely one of the dumbest people I've ever seen try to argue over and over. [/QUOTE] Thanks, you too babe

[QUOTE=scout1;39609836]This has been the post I was replying to, [B]which claimed it was a procedural violation. I have not yet seen any such procedure.[/B][/QUOTE] Well "following procedure" got an innocent man gunned down right at his front door.

[QUOTE=scout1;39609793]So everytime a police officer shoots someone without witnesses, I guess it was unjustifiable homocide because we can't trust the officer's word? There's a reason courts define guilt as beyond reasonable doubt, not "the slightest suspicion someone had something to lose"[/QUOTE] I think when someone has a motive to lie, it's worth investigating isn't it? And afaik testimony is not the only way of figuring out what happened... [QUOTE=scout1;39609781]You've opened your front door to police and just brushed it off?[/QUOTE] No they wouldn't brush it off, they wouldn't have killed him either. That's the point. [QUOTE=scout1;39609781]Let me tell you something: I got a visit from the police a year ago (roughly), and although they weren't even asking about me I nearly [B]pissed myself.[/B] I stumbled over all my words, gave bad directions, and made the cops think I was lying to them.[/QUOTE] This just in: the other 7 billion people isn't exactly like you. [QUOTE=scout1;39609781]It's not so simple as "Automatically drop your gun". It is so simple as "Automatically draw your weapon and fire" when [B]you're trained to do that very thing in the event your life is in danger (hint: it was).[/B] [/QUOTE] Are you telling me it takes longer to lower your weapon than to unholster, turn the safety off, point and fire?

[QUOTE=scout1;39609810] Inference is not proof[/QUOTE] great explanation

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;39609825]Is it a bad thing to make it apparent they're police?[/QUOTE] In the original circumstances, yes is it disadvantageous for the police officers to do so. If it was urgent enough to require forced entry, then I assume not? I'm not entirely sure of the question you're posing. [QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609833]please provide me with some proper sources instead of refusing to give them. you called me out for this, so practice what you motherfucking preach.[/QUOTE] Are you asking for the specific self-defense laws? Because I plain offered to match you tic-for-tac and you didn't reply to that post. Now you want to call me a hypocrite for following your standards...

[QUOTE=scout1;39609879]In the original circumstances, yes is it disadvantageous for the police officers to do so. If it was urgent enough to require forced entry, then I assume not? I'm not entirely sure of the question you're posing. Are you asking for the specific self-defense laws? Because I plain offered to match you tic-for-tac and you didn't reply to that post. Now you want to call me a hypocrite for following your standards...[/QUOTE] oh my god there's literally no winning with you is there are you really so fucking belligerent as to not be able to see any form of reasoning or bartering by a party that has contradicting views to your own? you have literally never agreed with anyone in this thread.

Why do the cops have immunity whenever they fuck up? When a citizen makes a mistake that's not even close to murder, they get sent to jail, locked up for an unbelievable amount of time.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;39609862]Well "following procedure" got an innocent man gunned down right at his front door.[/QUOTE] It's not like them being police changes much (except the strength of their statement in a law of court). If you pointed a gun at a private citizen they have a right to defend themselves too

[QUOTE=scout1;39609891]It's not like them being police changes much (except the strength of their statement in a law of court). If you pointed a gun at a private citizen they have a right to defend themselves too[/QUOTE] If private citizens would be pounding on your door during the night and you came up to the door with a gun and they killed you for pointing a gun at them, they'd go to jail for murder.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39609865]I think when someone has a motive to lie, it's worth investigating isn't it? And afaik testimony is not the only way of figuring out what happened... [/QUOTE] Yes that's why there is a mandatory leave period and investigation following an officer involved shooting, not a "Oh boy I guess this officer is guilty lol" Innocent until proven guilty, hrm? [QUOTE=Silly Sil;39609865] No they wouldn't brush it off, they wouldn't have killed him either. That's the point.[/QUOTE] I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say here, look at what I posted above [QUOTE=Silly Sil;39609865] This just in: the other 7 billion people isn't exactly like you.[/QUOTE] and we explained why this is reasonable [QUOTE=Silly Sil;39609865] Are you telling me it takes longer to lower your weapon than to unholster, turn the safety off, point and fire?[/QUOTE] When you can do the latter in a second? Yes. Especially when the former is confused, dazed, surprised, and at a loss.

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39609886]oh my god there's literally no winning with you is there are you really so fucking belligerent as to not be able to see any form of reasoning or bartering by a party that has contradicting views to your own? you have literally never agreed with anyone in this thread.[/QUOTE] I think it's pretty clear he doesn't want people to agree with him. As if it wasn't completely obvious after taking one quick look at his excellent posts. He just wants attention.