Tesla 'autosteer' update will make electric cars self-driving on highways

[KorJax]

[QUOTE=TehWhale;48343800]That's only adaptive cruise control which follows the car in front of you, that does not steer the car in any way.[/QUOTE]

It does steering as well, though mostly in a safety-feature sort of sense. I.E. it'll nudge the wheel if it detects you drifting out of lane, and can follow cars in front of you on curves, but doesn't do lane changes.

[Swilly]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48341070]you do realize that in the possibility that this might happen you will actually have control over the car and will be able to take over from the computer whenever you like?

i mean the way legislation and all works makes it illegal to go in one of these cars unless somebody is behind the wheel[/QUOTE]

I love how everyone is saying, 'Well that can happen anyway when you're driving' and no one is terrified AT ALL about that.

[JohnnyMo]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

Mm, no. I'll take a computer driver over a human just about any day of the week. Humans are pretty awful drivers.

[QUOTE=Melnek;48343892]I really dont understand why people dont like driving so much that they try to shift the responsibilities of driving unto computers and robots with all these recent advances with self driving cars.[/QUOTE]

Because I don't like driving. Is that so strange?

[Headhumpy]

[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;48347173]I think the biggest issue with programming self driving cars is making them figure out where and how to park, the "employee parking" near the building I work at is just a fuckin patch of dirt with no signs or parking spaces, there's no way a self driving car would know it's supposed to park there.[/QUOTE]

If you plucked a random person off the street and told them to drive to that building and park in the employee parking, they would have no fucking clue where to park either, because you didn't tell them where it was. It's no different.

[R E D L I N E]

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48347709]If you plucked a random person off the street and told them to drive to that building and park in the employee parking, they would have no fucking clue where to park either, because you didn't tell them where it was. It's no different.[/QUOTE]
Well there is one sign at the end of the road leading to it and if you just look at the place you'll know how to park there, but seeing as the road and the parking are the same color with no dedicated parking spaces I think the computer might have some trouble figuring it out.
Either way, having a car drive me 95% of the way there on its own and leave the parking to me would be fucking awesome already

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

do you not use elevators?

[Banhfunbags]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

There is a higher chance of you crashing your car yourself than anything you just mentioned.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=The golden;48348349]Driving a motor vehicle down a road is quite literally more than many drivers can handle. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate"]World-wide causality statistics[/URL] show this very clearly.

Assuming they can iron out the safety and hacking issues, I have no issues with self-driving cars becoming the norm or even replacing normal cars completely.[/QUOTE]

I think a mixed approach of highway on auto and cities on driver seems a bit more realistic.

[Demache]

[QUOTE=Killuah;48348822]I think a mixed approach of highway on auto and cities on driver seems a bit more realistic.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. Air pilots have already demonstrated this working well. Auto pilot for normal cruising conditions, and manual control for take off and landing, when problems that require human intervention are far more likely to occur.

[Adam1172]

Considering long ass straight highways with speed cameras every few miles are the most boring shit on earth. And boredom/sleepiness could be a cause for accidents and things.

I'm fine with this.

I mean hey, I absolutely love driving. But not on major highway/motorway/freeways that cut through a hill instead of bending around it.

[Fourier]

[QUOTE=Melnek;48343892]I really dont understand why people dont like driving so much that they try to shift the responsibilities of driving unto computers and robots with all these recent advances with self driving cars.[/QUOTE]

Because you need to eat sandwich, that is why

[formatme]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

i own a tesla and i love it, going to try this update

and any car can be "hacked" lol

[omarfr]

I'm just thinking how productive I could be if I could do work in my car while commuting home or to work!

[Loogaroo]

[QUOTE=TehWhale;48343800]That's only adaptive cruise control which follows the car in front of you, that does not steer the car in any way.[/QUOTE]

What if, like, they combined adaptive cruise control with this autosteer.

Model S already has the ACC. When it updates with autosteer, weeeeeee

[Trumple]

[QUOTE=Code3Response;48340880]TestECull literally has a grudge against Tesla.[/QUOTE]

He has a grudge against most modern tech

[editline]2nd August 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=The golden;48348349]Driving a motor vehicle down a road is quite literally more than many drivers can handle. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate"]World-wide causality statistics[/URL] show this very clearly.

Assuming they can iron out the safety and hacking issues, I have no issues with self-driving cars becoming the norm or even replacing normal cars completely.[/QUOTE]

I doubt this update adds vulnerabilities - the capability to control the wheel must already be in place if this is just a software update

[JumpinJackFlash]

This is going to be long.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]Just to clarify i was referring to the broader idea of self driving systems and cars as a whole, not just this limited lane control system. I think you were as well but im not certain.[/QUOTE]I was indeed, but it includes this as well I suppose since we were both referring to the broader idea. [QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]Why would a competent driver be just as effective? Computers have faster reaction times and can look in every direction at once. Millions of dollars of research is going into this field to ensure that they are designed to deal with many things, its very unlikely you would find something they are unprepared for on the street, if it comes to a dangerous looking ditch the car will just stop and if you must, you can manually navigate the damaged road. However, short of a natural disaster or a gunman in the street shooting at you, humans won't be able to compete with this technology as it matures, the average human is already more than well beaten by this tech just based on the accident statistics.[/QUOTE]While I agree that urban and suburban driving would be greatly helped by this, rural driving would not. Deer, bears, ducks, and all sorts of other wildlife pose unique obstacles and honestly slamming on your brakes is [i]not[/i] the best course of action most of the time, especially in adverse weather conditions. Hell, I doubt we'll have fully self-driving cars that can competently navigate year-round in Minnesota any time soon, ice is just a bunch of wild bullshit that is best left to feeling and intuition of a seasoned driver. Sadly, most people don't have that level of common sense and will just blithely kick in autodrive and then wonder why Mr. Computer has put their expensive vehicle into a concrete barrier. Hell, people already get in horrible accidents because they kicked in cruise control on the highway and their car can't figure out that accelerating on glare ice is a bad idea. I've watched that shit happen too, somebody was driving an older model car with cruise control and saw them start to wobble and spin, all the while they're losing speed and the car is like "WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I MAINTAIN 70MPH WHYYYYY" and the whole time I'm pretty sure the engine was at 8000RPM and the driver was freaking the fuck out. He hit the brakes, the car jerks hard opposite of the spin (it was going sideways) and then careens into the ditch. He went so far in even I couldn't pull him out with my '78 Silverado. It's people like him that will rely too much on this and pay the penalty for it, because ultimately this is about [i]convenience[/i] for 99% of the population, not safety.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]In the case of fully automated vehicles its not a matter of "prolly". You are a less safe driver because you are a sack of meat that can get sick, sleepy, stupid, and there are a ton of other meatbags on the road.[/QUOTE]Nah, fuck that, I'm not. I'd argue that would be true for your average person, but I'm well above average when it comes to driving. I don't have distractions when I drive, I don't drive tired, sick, or even remotely inebriated, and the one time I did was due to blood loss and I was driving myself to the ER. I might have slower reaction times than a computer, but I'm capable of processing much more and I come to a conclusion drawn from a massive amount of sensory data and decades of experience. Something zipping out in front of the car? Yeah, a computer will be able to apply the brakes much faster than I will, and that's likely going to be most of the issues a self-driving system will encounter. I still won't relinquish my right to tell the computer to shut the fuck up and splatter that cat that's run out on the road if it means me and my family could potentially be killed by an inappropriate braking.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]Road accidents can be caused by a single party, and because the trials have already verified a high level of safety in self driving cars, it is disgustingly irresponsible not to be in favor of, if not a complete rollout, continued development and progress in this area. The less unreliable meatbags on the road the better it is for me and for everyone else, regardless of my driving skill.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you could have typed up this whole paragraph without the fucking sanctimony, I already stated I'm not opposed to this technology. To hand it right back at you: I find your optimism regarding "the meatbags" completely naive, they'll rely on this technology completely and it will fail and people will get killed. There's a reason why train conductors and pilots have to be present to "babysit" the automated systems: if something fails they will have to take control. Nothing will have changed, so I don't know why this point is ridden so hard by people when in the few cases where automated vehicles have already existed there's international regulations stating there needs to be a human element ready to take command. Do you really, really trust everyday people to know when to switch off the autopilot? They can't even figure out cruise control in adverse weather is a bad idea, what makes you think this will be any better?

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]There will likely be some tragedy in this area before many of the less saavy companies get the picture. I should point out though how absurdly unlikely it is for someone to hack your car vs how likely it is for someone to ram into you and kill you because they were in a manual car while drunk/stupid/sleepy/sick.[/QUOTE]Again, you seem to be missing my entire fucking point here. I'm not against the technology, and it [i]really[/i] pisses me off that people like you cannot understand that. I am, however, unconvinced that people will be able to be trusted with this just like they're unable to be trusted driving [i]at all[/i] in the first place, and frankly, if it means all cars are going to be all-automatic at some point I'll take the traffic deaths over the illusion of safety, thanks.

Even if a self-driving car was absolutely safe and unhackable, I'd still prefer having the option of manual control (no matter how little I used it) in case something bad happens. I don't leave shit to chance, if I can influence the outcome to work out in my favor (not being dead is in my favor) then I'll do that.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48347139]People should stick to reputable car manufacturers though who know what the fuck theyre going to mess up as the tech develops.[/QUOTE]I really don't trust them at all, honestly, I could bitch for hours about all the shit I have an issue with when it comes to automotive manufacturers but that's not really necessary here. To condense, most of the manufacturers take design shortcuts and make terrible decisions that force the end-user to get fucked in one way or another. I prefer companies that have Tesla's reliability and customer service, and if I could afford one I'd get one and ditch my fuel costs entirely.

[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]

Just to be absolutely super duper sure, so some dipshit doesn't come along and quote my post and miss the point... (not talking about you here, Mattk50)

I am absolutely all for self-driving cars. I think the technology should be pursued and I think that it will benefit a lot of people because, yeah, on the whole people are terrible drivers because they're distracted and not paying attention. I think if they were paying attention then accident rates would drop severely, but let's be honest here, people love convenience and they love having shit done for them. I don't think this technology should just be applied and everyone throws up their hands and goes "there, driving is safe now!" No, I think drivers should still be held accountable for self-driving cars, they should still be ready to take control at a moment's notice. I also don't think that fully self-driving cars should be rushed or pursued any time soon, or at all really, removing the manual option is a fucking retarded idea. On that subject, a completely wired car, no mechanical linkage to the brakes or steering, is a [i]monumentally[/i] bad idea and if such a car were ever made I will refuse to even get in it. No. The level of corners cut in automotive manufacturing would be too much to ignore, I could never reconcile that and the inherent dangers of a total loss of power. Nor could I ever feel comfortable with the all to likely possibility that the fucking retards who made the son of a bitch also made it able to be remotely controlled looming overhead.

I like the technology, but I absolutely do not trust it's successful implementation at all.

[Velocet]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

So are you one of those people that's against Google Cars despite driving 1.7 million miles and having zero accidents (at fault)?

Personally I'd rather hand it over to a computer that could be hacked rather than a car that can have its breaks cut by any asshole with a grudge.

[Big Dumb Patriot]

[QUOTE=Melnek;48343892]I really dont understand why people dont like driving so much that they try to shift the responsibilities of driving unto computers and robots with all these recent advances with self driving cars.[/QUOTE]

As somebody who spends up to eight hours every day driving for work, the novelty of driving has worn pretty thin for me. I would [I]love[/I] to be able to pass off the responsibility to an automated system, because let's face it, a sufficiently advanced autonomous driving system is going to be several orders of magnitude better at driving than people. People are [I]terrible[/I] drivers. We've got slow reflexes, questionable situational awareness, minds that tend to zone out when doing monotonous activities, and we are generally distractable and flawed. An autonomous vehicle that has advanced enough sensors, systems, and routines will always be dramatically safer than even the best human drivers. The day that autonomous vehicles become commonplace is the day that traffic accident rates plummet. People can put their faith in their vehicle's systems and do what people do best: literally anything else.

[woolio1]

Can we all be totally honest with ourselves?

TestECull will probably never be able to afford a Tesla. Nor will most of us, I'm sure.

I drive a Ford Fiesta, and that's about as nice a car as I'll probably ever have.

[sloppy_joes]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

your mind can also fail or just randomly glitch. people fall asleep, make mistakes, get drunk, get distracted, etc. id imagine this type of technology would only be sold if it was demonstrably more reliable than humans. you are better off putting your fate in the hands of computers than your own, even if you don't like the idea of doing so.

[Demache]

[QUOTE=woolio1;48352141]Can we all be totally honest with ourselves?

TestECull will probably never be able to afford a Tesla. Nor will most of us, I'm sure.

I drive a Ford Fiesta, and that's about as nice a car as I'll probably ever have.[/QUOTE]

To be fair though, modern Fiestas are really nice cars. Not that its hard to make my Escort look like a POS in comparison though.

[Levelog]

[QUOTE=Demache;48352235]To be fair though, modern Fiestas are really nice cars. Not that its hard to make my Escort look like a POS in comparison though.[/QUOTE]

An Escort doesn't even need a comparison to look like a POS. No offense.

[sltungle]

Humans are incompetent, and worse than just that, they're unable, through either pride or stupidity, to admit their incompetence. 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 an autonomous car is going to do the job far better than humans. This is only a good thing.

[Velocet]

[QUOTE=woolio1;48352141]Can we all be totally honest with ourselves?

TestECull will probably never be able to afford a Tesla. Nor will most of us, I'm sure.

I drive a Ford Fiesta, and that's about as nice a car as I'll probably ever have.[/QUOTE]

Don't they plan on a $17,500 model by 2022 or something? That sounds extremely reasonable.

[Morgen]

[QUOTE=woolio1;48352141]Can we all be totally honest with ourselves?

TestECull will probably never be able to afford a Tesla. Nor will most of us, I'm sure.

I drive a Ford Fiesta, and that's about as nice a car as I'll probably ever have.[/QUOTE]

When the Model 3 comes out I think that at that price point it would be affordable to the majority of the middle class.

[QUOTE]Hell, I doubt we'll have fully self-driving cars that can competently navigate year-round in Minnesota any time soon, ice is just a bunch of wild bullshit that is best left to feeling and intuition of a seasoned driver.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if Tesla's Autopilot will have ice capabilities built in or not when this comes out but, I am sure it will be fairly high on their priorities. Northern Europe is one of the biggest markets for Tesla.
The Model S is already one of the best cars for driving in ice, with a low centre of gravity, high weight and with the dual motor version the back and front wheels can operate completely independently from each other and adjust power as needed.

[Zeke129]

[QUOTE=Demache;48352235]To be fair though, modern Fiestas are really nice cars. Not that its hard to make my Escort look like a POS in comparison though.[/QUOTE]

Is it even possible to buy a new car today and not get something that's at least "good"?

You might feel like you didn't get your money's worth but no new car is going to actually leave you hating it unless you managed to randomly get a lemon. Cars now kind of seem like smartphones. They'll all do the basic job just fine, it comes down to which manufacturer's distinctions you prefer and how much you want to spend.

[Mattk50]

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48351467]This is going to be long.

I was indeed, but it includes this as well I suppose since we were both referring to the broader idea. While I agree that urban and suburban driving would be greatly helped by this, rural driving would not. Deer, bears, ducks, and all sorts of other wildlife pose unique obstacles and honestly slamming on your brakes is [i]not[/i] the best course of action most of the time, especially in adverse weather conditions. Hell, I doubt we'll have fully self-driving cars that can competently navigate year-round in Minnesota any time soon, ice is just a bunch of wild bullshit that is best left to feeling and intuition of a seasoned driver. Sadly, most people don't have that level of common sense and will just blithely kick in autodrive and then wonder why Mr. Computer has put their expensive vehicle into a concrete barrier. Hell, people already get in horrible accidents because they kicked in cruise control on the highway and their car can't figure out that accelerating on glare ice is a bad idea. I've watched that shit happen too, somebody was driving an older model car with cruise control and saw them start to wobble and spin, all the while they're losing speed and the car is like "WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I MAINTAIN 70MPH WHYYYYY" and the whole time I'm pretty sure the engine was at 8000RPM and the driver was freaking the fuck out. He hit the brakes, the car jerks hard opposite of the spin (it was going sideways) and then careens into the ditch. He went so far in even I couldn't pull him out with my '78 Silverado. It's people like him that will rely too much on this and pay the penalty for it, because ultimately this is about [i]convenience[/i] for 99% of the population, not safety.[/QUOTE]

You seem to think that all such a system can do is brake fast rather than try to evade. And furthermore you are underestimating just how short braking distance gets when under computer control, the car's sensors can detect bears, ducks, etc just fine.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48351467]Nah, fuck that, I'm not. I'd argue that would be true for your average person, but I'm well above average when it comes to driving. I don't have distractions when I drive, I don't drive tired, sick, or even remotely inebriated, and the one time I did was due to blood loss and I was driving myself to the ER. I might have slower reaction times than a computer, but I'm capable of processing much more and I come to a conclusion drawn from a massive amount of sensory data and decades of experience. Something zipping out in front of the car? Yeah, a computer will be able to apply the brakes much faster than I will, and that's likely going to be most of the issues a self-driving system will encounter. I still won't relinquish my right to tell the computer to shut the fuck up and splatter that cat that's run out on the road if it means me and my family could potentially be killed by an inappropriate braking.[/QUOTE]
I hope you realize every idiot on the road thinks they are above average drivers. All of them. And then they crash because they are meatbags and people die. You may actually be that rare superhuman driver that might actually better than *a version* of this tech but that doesnt really have a bearing on whether or not everyone is.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48351467]Yeah, you could have typed up this whole paragraph without the fucking sanctimony, I already stated I'm not opposed to this technology. To hand it right back at you: I find your optimism regarding "the meatbags" completely naive, they'll rely on this technology completely and it will fail and people will get killed. There's a reason why train conductors and pilots have to be present to "babysit" the automated systems: if something fails they will have to take control. Nothing will have changed, so I don't know why this point is ridden so hard by people when in the few cases where automated vehicles have already existed there's international regulations stating there needs to be a human element ready to take command. Do you really, really trust everyday people to know when to switch off the autopilot? They can't even figure out cruise control in adverse weather is a bad idea, what makes you think this will be any better?[/QUOTE]
if by sanctimony you meant the irresponsible thing that was me taking the same wording you ujsed

There is no optimism here, it's a risk/reward calculation, the number of deaths due to accidents will drop drastically and the number of deaths due to people who, in rare edge cases, do something stupid and die, will rise to a far lesser extent. The human is the point of error and this is about reducing accident and injury/death statistics, not to avoid pandering to those fearmongering tabloid stories about automated cars being the devil.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48351467]Again, you seem to be missing my entire fucking point here. I'm not against the technology, and it [i]really[/i] pisses me off that people like you cannot understand that. I am, however, unconvinced that people will be able to be trusted with this just like they're unable to be trusted driving [i]at all[/i] in the first place, and frankly, if it means all cars are going to be all-automatic at some point I'll take the traffic deaths over the illusion of safety, thanks.

Even if a self-driving car was absolutely safe and unhackable, I'd still prefer having the option of manual control (no matter how little I used it) in case something bad happens. I don't leave shit to chance, if I can influence the outcome to work out in my favor (not being dead is in my favor) then I'll do that.

I really don't trust them at all, honestly, I could bitch for hours about all the shit I have an issue with when it comes to automotive manufacturers but that's not really necessary here. To condense, most of the manufacturers take design shortcuts and make terrible decisions that force the end-user to get fucked in one way or another. I prefer companies that have Tesla's reliability and customer service, and if I could afford one I'd get one and ditch my fuel costs entirely.[/QUOTE]
I understand your position but im not exactly convinced that you can be both for a technology and against it's use because people are too stupid to use it at the same time. You'd "take the traffic deaths" because you wouldnt like people thinking that a 99.~% safe system isnt actually 100%? is that really an illusion of safety? thats insane, imagine if we made all our decisions like this. "Well, we *could* use nuclear power plants because they will cause less overall damage than the alternatives, buut we shouldnt

There will probably always be automatic cars with manual override steering wheels and controls within our life times, though i could picture some point in the far future they'd be outlawed as unsafe for general use without super special licensing and permits.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48351467]

[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]

Just to be absolutely super duper sure, so some dipshit doesn't come along and quote my post and miss the point... (not talking about you here, Mattk50)

I am absolutely all for self-driving cars. I think the technology should be pursued and I think that it will benefit a lot of people because, yeah, on the whole people are terrible drivers because they're distracted and not paying attention. I think if they were paying attention then accident rates would drop severely, but let's be honest here, people love convenience and they love having shit done for them. I don't think this technology should just be applied and everyone throws up their hands and goes "there, driving is safe now!" No, I think drivers should still be held accountable for self-driving cars, they should still be ready to take control at a moment's notice. I also don't think that fully self-driving cars should be rushed or pursued any time soon, or at all really, removing the manual option is a fucking retarded idea. On that subject, a completely wired car, no mechanical linkage to the brakes or steering, is a [i]monumentally[/i] bad idea and if such a car were ever made I will refuse to even get in it. No. The level of corners cut in automotive manufacturing would be too much to ignore, I could never reconcile that and the inherent dangers of a total loss of power. Nor could I ever feel comfortable with the all to likely possibility that the fucking retards who made the son of a bitch also made it able to be remotely controlled looming overhead.

I like the technology, but I absolutely do not trust it's successful implementation at all.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a good idea for the first iterations of the tech, there will need to be gradual rollout and all of the first self driving cars will still have steering wheels for a long time. Eventually though, i think there will come a point, sooner than you may think, where both convenience and safety are at a point where "drivers" (more like passengers at this point) will have so little to do with the operation of their car, probably without even steering wheels, that it doesnt make sense to hold them responsible anymore.

The risk of your car being hacked or out of the blue suffering a total power failure is very low, less than other risks you take when getting into a manual car. At some point you need to accept that in a functioning society there's no way to completely preserve the feeling that you are a hundred percent in control of your own destiny when the numbers say you are much better off using an automated system.

[Silence]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;48353590]Is it even possible to buy a new car today and not get something that's at least "good"?

You might feel like you didn't get your money's worth but no new car is going to actually leave you hating it unless you managed to randomly get a lemon. Cars now kind of seem like smartphones. They'll all do the basic job just fine, it comes down to which manufacturer's distinctions you prefer and how much you want to spend.[/QUOTE]

Very possible, and it's because of it's "basic job".

A car with a new technology is something you want to stay away from at first. For example, when the mustang switched from the T5 transmission to the Tremec TR3650, the first few years had problems with shift forks and synchronizers. After a year or two of production, they fixed the small bugs and everything became good again.

[turke]

[QUOTE=formatme;48349559]i own a tesla and i love it, going to try this update

and any car can be "hacked" lol[/QUOTE]

Stop saying any car can be hacked its stupid

[pr00ch]

[QUOTE=TestECull;48340826]No thanks. I prefer *not* handing control of my car over to a computer that can fail, be hacked, or just randomly glitch.[/QUOTE]

Meh, it's prolly a better driver than the average bloke