Islamist jailed for brutaly assaulting boy over embrace with girl in London street - Polidicks

"I can't respond to your argument as you have beaten me so I'll call you names instead."

[QUOTE=St33m;51484513]I was about to write a whole tirade, engaging you on everything you wrote, but you wont change your mind. Because this is bizzaro-world. Where theocratic fascism is cool, and it's violent adherents must be defended at all costs, modern liberal principles of scrutiny and honesty be damned.[/QUOTE] You wrote an entire reply to say why you wouldn't reply?

[QUOTE=St33m;51484377]Your view of reality is really fucking skewed. This guy beats the shit out of people who dont adhere to his moral sensibilities, i want the maximum possible of freedom for everyone, and i'm a pacifist. You have no fucking idea what you're saying.[/QUOTE] I've not once said that this guy is in any way redeemable, or good. A history of violent offenses and incarcerations only goes to show he's a bad apple, the kind who should be either locked up for good or kept under tight vigilance, and that he was just waiting to strike once more as he's done all his life. However, you decide to instead focus on how he's a Muslim, as that narrative is more appealing to you, it shows to you that you're right about what you believe in despite how the facts are out there and show a different side of the story. Wanting the "maximum possible of freedom for everyone" also includes respecting their beliefs and respecting their rights to believe in them. These scary headlines about Muslims are done with the specific purpose of undermining them, to show how these wild savages need to be kicked out of Europe, to push that agenda of xenophobia and irrationality. Ironically enough this guy happens to be British by birthright, so there isn't really anywhere to kick him to.

[QUOTE=St33m;51484513]I was about to write a whole tirade, engaging you on everything you wrote, but you wont change your mind. Because this is bizzaro-world. Where theocratic fascism is cool, and it's violent adherents must be defended at all costs, modern liberal principles of scrutiny and honesty be damned.[/QUOTE] Try me. I have changed my mind on topics before, but not because someone called me names. I pointed out that that you didn't seem to read the op, nor provide sources for your arguments. You continue to do so.

[QUOTE=da space core;51484426]alright, lets take it from the top this is nonsense, I see so much of the opposite, but ill put ancedotal evidence aside, even it it disproves your broad generalization aside from certain middle eastern countries that do have backward laws (and that I agree need to be changed), there nothing inherently special about islam that prevents PDA. People who are religious (in any religion in general) will tend to be against it. My point is that moderate muslims don't really care [/QUOTE] We booked a 4 night break in Marrakesh, Morocco and received an email from the company that we booked with, which was basically a guide on what not to do. It asked that we refrain from PDA and also recommended that my wife wear 3/4 length trousers and sleeves and refrain from showing cleavage. We obliged out of respect for their culture in their country.

It's quite clear this man was very violent even before be converted to Islam. The question is, would he have beat this kid if he didn't believe he had a divine mandate to do so?

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;51487676]It's quite clear this man was very violent even before be converted to Islam. The question is, would he have beat this kid if he didn't believe he had a divine mandate to do so?[/QUOTE] Hard to know. It's very possible he was just looking for trouble and used this as an excuse, however.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51487632]What is the point here? Still no case being made against the religion. If the people of Morocco are too conservative for cleavage that is on them, not on Islam as a whole.[/QUOTE] Morocco is 99% muslim and probably one of the more liberal of the muslim countries with a large tourist trade. You are in every single muslim thread protesting too hard so I know how pointless it will be pointing out that these requests were made because we were travelling to a muslim country, to assume the population of Morocco are all conservative for other reasons is just plain silly. As decent europeans we have no problem with respecting other cultures wishes and dress codes though. [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51487689]Hard to know. It's very possible he was just looking for trouble and used this as an excuse, however.[/QUOTE] So he converted to a religion as an excuse for his violent behaviour? Why did he specifically choose Islam? This is a ridiculous claim to make.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51487692]So he converted to a religion as an excuse for his violent behaviour? Why did he specifically choose Islam? This is a ridiculous claim to make.[/QUOTE] Of course he didn't choose Islam, do you think he fucking asked to be converted? It's just absurd to assume that. Do you think he asked for an imam to come and convert him? Prisoners are easy targets for conversion to any religion because they're stuck in one place that is lonely, violent and desperate, and religion provides easy respite for them. Look up the numbers, there's millions who are converted to religion in prisons.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51487751]Of course he didn't choose Islam, do you think he fucking asked to be converted? It's just absurd to assume that. Do you think he asked for an imam to come and convert him? Prisoners are easy targets for conversion to any religion because they're stuck in one place that is lonely, violent and desperate, and religion provides easy respite for them. Look up the numbers, there's millions who are converted to religion in prisons.[/QUOTE] lol, how can you assume he was converted against his will with such certainty?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51487781]lol, how can you assume he was converted against his will with such certainty?[/QUOTE] "Against his will" might not be the right words to describe the nature of his conversion. In prison, people are desperate and in need of purpose and meaning, and religion is something that very easily "preys" upon those characteristics. Religion is something that can provide comfort to people in their lowest moments, so it should be no surprise that people are more open to it when in jail of all places.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51487692]So he converted to a religion as an excuse for his violent behaviour? Why did he specifically choose Islam? This is a ridiculous claim to make.[/QUOTE] No that's not what I said, what I said that [I]in this specific instance[/I] it's very possible he was just looking for trouble and used his religion as an excuse, not that [I]he converted to use religion as an excuse for violence.[/I] I'm not sure how you got that claim out of my post.

[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;51479985]Even though he was muslim, what about the millions of other muslims who walk along daily seeing this stuff in western countries and not even worrying about it. Maybe it was purely motivated by religion, but i think it was more of the fact he is just a psycho.[/QUOTE] Do you actually think this is an argument? If this is a valid defense of Islam, then literally any ideology ever is off the hook for any of its followers doing anything.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51487951]Do you actually think this is an argument? If this is a valid defense of Islam, then literally any ideology ever is off the hook for any of its followers doing anything.[/QUOTE] Yes, it does apply to all religious. Statistically speaking, a murderer is the US could very likely be Christian (simply by our population make up) . Im not going to automatically set the motive to "Christianity"

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51487951]Do you actually think this is an argument? If this is a valid defense of Islam, then literally any ideology ever is off the hook for any of its followers doing anything.[/QUOTE] Dude when there's this many people HERE trying to push the fact he's Muslim before the fact he's a violent criminal with a long history of this shit, it's a pretty solid fucking argument to make. Religion is an EXCUSE here, not a rationale. The guys off the hook and the only thing Islam did here was give him a really hardline 'justfication' that any moderate Muslim would scoff at. Some of you guys are totally fucking deluded, it's no wonder the world's in the shape it's in currently.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51489662]Dude when there's this many people HERE trying to push the fact he's Muslim before the fact he's a violent criminal with a long history of this shit, it's a pretty solid fucking argument to make. Religion is an EXCUSE here, not a rationale. The guys off the hook and the only thing Islam did here was give him a really hardline 'justfication' that any moderate Muslim would scoff at. Some of you guys are totally fucking deluded, it's no wonder the world's in the shape it's in currently.[/QUOTE] Mmm yes, the world is in this shape because of several people making potentially inaccurate statements on the Internet, not because some people decide to blow themselves up and slaughter other people because those people think differently than them and are inferior in their eyes.

[QUOTE=yff;51495356]Mmm yes, the world is in this shape because of several people making potentially inaccurate statements on the Internet, not because some people decide to blow themselves up and slaughter other people because those people think differently than them and are inferior in their eyes.[/QUOTE] No, the world is in this shape because people globally are believing in the same mindset as these 'potentially inaccurate statements'. Here's a hint, they're not potentially inaccurate, they're totally inaccurate. And it's not just the internet, this mindset has permeated Western civilization strongly over the past few decades. If you genuinely believe some of the shit being said in this thread, I hate to tell you but you're a highly misinformed bigot. Read a couple books on the rise of modern civilization and you're going to quickly understand that this kind of thinking has been kindling for a fire that's been burning for AGES, but hey history repeats itself I guess and clearly no one in the world is interested in breaking the cycle so fuck it

For anyone trying to blame or defend Islam in this event, keep in mind there are multiple interpretations of the Quran and Hadith that can support violent and non-violent views. It isn't one or the other and in the end it comes down to what people want to believe about it.

[QUOTE=Aathma;51499215]For anyone trying to blame or defend Islam in this event, keep in mind there are multiple interpretations of the Quran and Hadith that can support violent and non-violent views. It isn't one or the other and in the end it comes down to what people want to believe about it.[/QUOTE] ... the issue isn't about the interpretations of the Quran and Hadith here, the issue is about a violent criminal with a history of violence carrying out a violent act, and how everyone immediately jumped onto the 'muslimsss!!!!!' bandwagon even though the guy was converted when he was in prison and most likely is using his 'faith' as a cover for his actions. Like if he was born and bred in Iran and ended up coming over here and doing this shit, then the conversation could be about religious interpretation because you're totally right, there's a lot of wiggle room to be had within the faith. But this simply isn't the right situation for that talk, and people are using a deranged man's action to fuel their bigoted viewpoints.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51487751]Of course he didn't choose Islam, do you think he fucking asked to be converted? It's just absurd to assume that. Do you think he asked for an imam to come and convert him? Prisoners are easy targets for conversion to any religion because they're stuck in one place that is lonely, violent and desperate, and religion provides easy respite for them. Look up the numbers, there's millions who are converted to religion in prisons.[/QUOTE] You aren’t answering his question though, you are deflecting. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Aathma;51499215]For anyone trying to blame or defend Islam in this event, keep in mind there are multiple interpretations of the Quran and Hadith that can support violent and non-violent views. It isn't one or the other and in the end it comes down to what people want to believe about it.[/QUOTE] Agreed, but Islamism has some pretty strict and well defined base tenants that are simply impalpable by the western worlds standards. This guy is a self reported Islamist.

Step zero would be to stop being an attempted murderer apologist and realize that this crime was in fact religion-motivated, and to work from there. Stop pretending like Islam has nothing to do with the crimes very clearly associated with it. Being Muslim doesn't make you a raging lunatic but pretending that it was not related to this assault is fucking idiotic.

[QUOTE=phygon;51502725]Step zero would be to stop being an attempted murderer apologist and realize that this crime was in fact religion-motivated, and to work from there. Stop pretending like Islam has nothing to do with the crimes very clearly associated with it. Being Muslim doesn't make you a raging lunatic but pretending that it was not related to this assault is fucking idiotic.[/QUOTE] I'm a lunatic with a history of violent assaults, in prison I end up converted to HARD LINE Catholicism and the first thing I do as a free man is go beat up some homosexuals. Is this a religiously motivated crime or am I a bad person who in a mentally venerable state turned to anything that could possibly justify my behavior. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] Like you guys SERIOUSLY need to take some criminal psychology courses because this is a very extensively studied phenomenon. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] But nice snipe at the end there, really made your argument (err... lack of argument) hit home

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51502241]You aren’t answering his question though, you are deflecting..[/QUOTE] Yes I did. Here's his question. [quote]So he converted to a religion as an excuse for his violent behaviour?[/quote] [quote]Why did he specifically choose Islam?[/quote] Both of these questions imply that he sought to convert to Islam despite having no prior relationship with the religion. Religious conversion, particularly in prisons (Which is a well studied phenomenon) doesn't really happen because the person is asking for it, proselytism is extremely effective in vulnerable minds. Thus, the answer. [quote]Of course he didn't choose Islam, do you think he fucking asked to be converted? It's just absurd to assume that. Do you think he asked for an imam to come and convert him? Prisoners are easy targets for conversion to any religion because they're stuck in one place that is lonely, violent and desperate, and religion provides easy respite for them. Look up the numbers, there's millions who are converted to religion in prisons.[/quote]

You know what's funny? Yes, this guy might be a psychopath who just happened to adhere to Islam. But the truth is, I never heard about an "atheist/agnostic" pyscho who attacked someone or banned someone (If he was in politics) from hugging or kissing on the streets. Yes, from muslims, christians and God knows what else I could remember. I think that, it's ok. He's a psycho. But the things he gets crazy about, are guided by his religious beliefs. If he wasn't a muslim, he would probably go nuts just because and kill somebody or pull out a lug wrench in a road rage situation and kill somebody.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51503161]Yes I did. Here's his question. Both of these questions imply that he sought to convert to Islam despite having no prior relationship with the religion. Religious conversion, particularly in prisons (Which is a well studied phenomenon) doesn't really happen because the person is asking for it, proselytism is extremely effective in vulnerable minds. Thus, the answer.[/QUOTE] He wasn't in prison when he committed this offence, what was stopping him unconverting once he left prison? [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;51503690]You know what's funny? Yes, this guy might be a psychopath who just happened to adhere to Islam. But the truth is, I never heard about an "atheist/agnostic" pyscho who attacked someone or banned someone (If he was in politics) from hugging or kissing on the streets. Yes, from muslims, christians and God knows what else I could remember. I think that, it's ok. He's a psycho. But the things he gets crazy about, are guided by his religious beliefs. If he wasn't a muslim, he would probably go nuts just because and kill somebody or pull out a lug wrench in a road rage situation and kill somebody.[/QUOTE] if's and buts don't prove anything.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51503069]I'm a lunatic with a history of violent assaults, in prison I end up converted to HARD LINE Catholicism and the first thing I do as a free man is go beat up some homosexuals. [B]Is this a religiously motivated crime or am I a bad person who in a mentally venerable state turned to anything that could possibly justify my behavior.[/B] [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] Like you guys SERIOUSLY need to take some criminal psychology courses because this is a very extensively studied phenomenon. [/QUOTE] Both, if your assault's motivation was pulled from the bible. [quote]But nice snipe at the end there, really made your argument (err... lack of argument) hit home[/quote] Haha wow you really caught me unprepared with that wild zinger, now I am the fool. Are you serious?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51504862]WTF does "unconverting" means Does being irreligious deem people unable to understand what a religion is and how it works in an individual? [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] To the best of my knowledge there is nothing against PDA at the core of Islam, nothing that says hugging a girl makes her a whore and you should beat the shit out of the hugging party, thus this was completely based upon the individual, and his own personal "sense" of decency. Saying it is religious is really a stretch.[/QUOTE] He had 9 years to decide whether or not his conversion suited him or not and if as some claim he only converted because he was in prison he has had plenty of time to change his mind. Let's not pretend that his behaviour was not based on his Islamic beliefs, please.

[QUOTE] . Let's not pretend that his behaviour was not based on his Islamic beliefs, please [/QUOTE] He. Was. Violent. Years. Before. He. Converted. How many ways can I write this?

[QUOTE=da space core;51505876]He. Was. Violent. Years. Before. He. Converted. How many ways can I write this?[/QUOTE] He was a muslim for 9 years and he violently assaulted a juvenile for embracing his girlfriend, you can't blame that on his past, how many times can I write this? I have done wrong things in my past but these things have no bearing on my present actions, get real.

[QUOTE=phygon;51504849]Both, if your assault's motivation was pulled from the bible. Haha wow you really caught me unprepared with that wild zinger, now I am the fool. Are you serious?[/QUOTE] Okay I'll spell it out for you because obviously this is too difficult for some of you to understand. Let's picture 2 scenarios. 1) This man is a violent criminal with a history of problems, is NOT converted to Islam. 2) This man is an Islamic believer, does not have a history of violent crime. Of these two people, which one has more reason to commit this act? It's a pretty clear answer. Yes, there was fuel from his faith, but anyone with any understanding of criminal psychology can eyeball what are the important factors behind this crime and what aren't. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51505970]He was a muslim for 9 years and he violently assaulted a juvenile for embracing his girlfriend, you can't blame that on his past, how many times can I write this? I have done wrong things in my past but these things have no bearing on my present actions, get real.[/QUOTE] This post shows such a total misunderstanding of the human mind I don't even know where to begin. The school system really failed a lot of you guys.