SpaceX's Elon Musk reveals more details on Mars plans - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498274]hmm it'd be nicer to see them put a flag representing all humans rather than just a minor nation[/QUOTE] Wouldn't really call the only remaining superpower a minor nation but I'll assume you mean in the grand scheme of things so whatever. And if this was accomplished by Americans under an American company, it only makes sense to raise the flag of the United States.

I hope a Martian colony will transcend Earth borders though and become a symbol of international co-operation on a massive scale.

This is going to sound completely inane and psychotic but here goes. I would love to leave earth and just devote my life to Mars and space. I don't care if I'm just a grunt out there but being able to be one of the first people on Mars, one of the first to travel further then the moon. Abandoning the mediocre life I have now on earth to explore the unknown and help advance humanity? But the grass is always greener on the other side as they say.

[QUOTE=wystan;50498399]Wouldn't really call the only remaining superpower a minor nation but I'll assume you mean in the grand scheme of things so whatever. And if this was accomplished by Americans under an American company, it only makes sense to raise the flag of the United States.[/QUOTE] ye but they couldn't have done it without the efforts of many scientists and businessmen and workers from around the world after all, there wouldn't be a man on the moon without the germans seems petty to have it represent just a collection of squabbling states in the northern continent of the americas

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498616]after all, there wouldn't be a man on the moon without the germans[/QUOTE] Of all people Nazis are the ones that jump started it all with their V rocket program.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498206]why not a united nations flag[/QUOTE] Why? it's an American company doing it, what other countries are investing into space travel except for Russia and maybe a few other European countries. [editline]11th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498274]hmm it'd be nicer to see them put a flag representing all humans rather than just a minor nation[/QUOTE] "Minor". Who cares of they put a flag on there anyway, it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50498937]Why? it's an American company doing it, what other countries are investing into space travel except for Russia and maybe a few other European countries.[/quote] uhhh there's japan, india, china, iran, europe (collectively), israel, korea, and ukraine [quote]"Minor". Who cares of they put a flag on there anyway, it doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] well it'd be cool to see a flag representing every country because it represents the international scientific effort of exploration and scientific discovery. pretending its a solely american effort is a bit silly

The US flag will probably be painted on the craft so it's going to be the US flag first regardless. As for planting a flag, it'll probably be the flag(s) of whoever is choosen to go. Likely an international crew. The flag planted on the moon was almost the flag of the UN.

[QUOTE=ecapsbuS;50498166]This might not be a popular opinion but I believe it is too early to actually try to colonize the Mars and I believe there are things that we have to fix down here before we invest money in such risky endeavors. We don't have any real need to try to colonize the Mars at this point in time and I believe when the need arises it will be much easier and cheaper for us to do so. I know it might be private investments but still.[/QUOTE] And if things don't get fixed on Earth before an extinction event? Extending the life of the human species is the end goal, so it seems appropriate to want to have a colony on another planet ASAP

The window to start a colony may not be open forever. So when we may need it we might not be able to set it up. Societies have regressed technologically before. Sure if we do it later on we might have better technology for it, or everything could of fallen to shit and we can't do it.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498974]uhhh there's japan, india, china, iran, europe (collectively), israel, korea, and ukraine well it'd be cool to see a flag representing every country because it represents the international scientific effort of exploration and scientific discovery. pretending its a solely american effort is a bit silly[/QUOTE] But it is, isn't it? Are there any non-US government/companies backing spacex's ambitions? Not to mention the first few missions will likely be manned by American astronauts.

[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Flag_of_Mars.svg[/t] I mean if we're talking about [I]flags on Mars...[/I]

[QUOTE=DBFT;50499316]But it is, isn't it? Are there any non-US government/companies backing spacex's ambitions? Not to mention the first few missions will likely be manned by American astronauts.[/QUOTE] Right now we don't much of the fine details of the Mars plans. For the 2018 Dragon mission (unmanned) though it's just SpaceX with NASA providing support. I wouldn't be surprised if the first mission consisted of astronauts that had extensive time logged on the ISS though, regardless of nationality.

-snip- wrong reply [editline]12th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50498974]uhhh there's japan, india, china, iran, europe (collectively), israel, korea, and ukraine well it'd be cool to see a flag representing every country because it represents the international scientific effort of exploration and scientific discovery. pretending its a solely american effort is a bit silly[/QUOTE] Japan, India, Iran, Korea, Ukraine, and Israel aren't funding it nearly as much as the U.S., China, and Russia.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50500353]Japan, India, Iran, Korea, Ukraine, and Israel aren't funding it nearly as much as the U.S., China, and Russia.[/QUOTE] what about all the stuff they launched into space, their astronauts, and the innovations they have developed? i mean india, europe, and japan have definitely made significant contributions to space exploration and travel. discounting them because they don't spend as much money doesn't seem all that fair it's an international effort to explore space now and i don't think it should be a competition over "who gets to plant a national flag" on another world. people use that sort of propaganda

[URL="http://www.flagofplanetearth.com/"]We should put this on Mars[/URL] [t]http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5506acb1e4b0b39d3c22d329/t/555897d8e4b0c9f331970cdc/1431869404880/earth_flag[/t] Or if you want something more literal [t]https://missiongalacticfreedom.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/united-earth.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50501297]what about all the stuff they launched into space, their astronauts, and the innovations they have developed? i mean india, europe, and japan have definitely made significant contributions to space exploration and travel. discounting them because they don't spend as much money doesn't seem all that fair it's an international effort to explore space now and i don't think it should be a competition over "who gets to plant a national flag" on another world. people use that sort of propaganda[/QUOTE] Ukraine itself haven't done jackshit to space exploration. It was the USSR

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50503089][URL="http://www.flagofplanetearth.com/"]We should put this on Mars[/URL][/QUOTE]A bit prettier than the Mars tricolor but no, sorry, flag of Earth belongs on Earth. Mars needs it's own flag, maybe something manly and phallic~

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50501297]what about all the stuff they launched into space, their astronauts, and the innovations they have developed? i mean india, europe, and japan have definitely made significant contributions to space exploration and travel. discounting them because they don't spend as much money doesn't seem all that fair it's an international effort to explore space now and i don't think it should be a competition over "who gets to plant a national flag" on another world. people use that sort of propaganda[/QUOTE] All those astronauts from different countries went on either U.S. Russian or Chinese spacecraft.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50505436]All those astronauts from different countries went on either U.S. Russian or Chinese spacecraft.[/QUOTE] who cares? this should be about something more than petty nations

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50493144]Mars is MUCH further away, the moon is more viable because its only a couple days travel from earth, that and a good launch site for ships. Also the time involved, 6 months to travel, survey for resources, and mine them, which would take who knows how long, then another 6 months back. Not exactly efficient with current space tech or even a few decades from now.[/QUOTE] You're forgetting some key things that makes mars more viable than the moon 1. It has an atmosphere While weak, heating and more importantly cooling costs are much easier comparatively than on the moon of it's huge range of temperature. This also protects bases from small meteors which won't slow down on the moon, on mars they will. 2. Distance means jack shit with our current rocket methodology The moon is closer sure but still if something happens on the moon or mars, you're pretty much fucked regardless. On mars, you are at least safer and have more resources at disposal depending if 3d printing and other mining methods are sent there 3. Water Huge thing, water can be used in so many ways for energy and O2 that it is ridiculous. I'm sure musk and his crew are well aware of how useful this single thing is. 4. More gravity/magnetic field This helps a lot in working and adapting current things to work on mars, otherwise I hope you don't mind running 30 feet for a wrench you bumped. Also magnetic fields help with protecting against solar storms. Mars has a weak one but it's better than anything the moon has. Generally anyone going to mars is looking at a one way trip with huge risks and rewards, but I believe anyone signing up for this is well aware of this fact. Mining the moon is a stupid meme at this point since there is still 0 cost effective way to mine the moon and use what is mined. H3? great, guess how many places can use it and are willing to pay for mining the moon for it? Probably less than 10. [editline]13th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=LtKyle2;50498441]This is going to sound completely inane and psychotic but here goes. I would love to leave earth and just devote my life to Mars and space. I don't care if I'm just a grunt out there but being able to be one of the first people on Mars, one of the first to travel further then the moon. Abandoning the mediocre life I have now on earth to explore the unknown and help advance humanity? But the grass is always greener on the other side as they say.[/QUOTE] Because it's about pulling a lewis and clark, IIRC when they got signed up to go to the west coast there was a really large idea that there was no coming back. It was an expodition to learn what else is out there and push our own borders.

For Mars you will be able to return from Mars, you just have to wait for both planets orbits to be in the right place.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50504312]Mars needs it's own flag, maybe something manly and phallic~[/QUOTE]i suggest we use something with a swastika

[QUOTE=Joazzz;50505847]i suggest we use something with a swastika[/QUOTE] I serenely doubt it will be anything other than an american flag, since they are an american based company and primarily US one as well it only makes sense.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;50506018]I serenely doubt it will be anything other than an american flag, since they are an american based company and primarily US one as well it only makes sense.[/QUOTE] ITAR makes it a bitch for them to employ anyone that's not an American citizen. They have done it a few times but apparently it's a ton of work.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50505469]who cares? this should be about something more than petty nations[/QUOTE] Not really if its a private company doing it with some funding from other companies and the air force its not the world as a whole joining together to do it, its only the 3 most powerful countries in the world and private companies in said powerful countries. [editline]13th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnFisher89;50505525]You're forgetting some key things that makes mars more viable than the moon 1. It has an atmosphere While weak, heating and more importantly cooling costs are much easier comparatively than on the moon of it's huge range of temperature. This also protects bases from small meteors which won't slow down on the moon, on mars they will. 2. Distance means jack shit with our current rocket methodology The moon is closer sure but still if something happens on the moon or mars, you're pretty much fucked regardless. On mars, you are at least safer and have more resources at disposal depending if 3d printing and other mining methods are sent there 3. Water Huge thing, water can be used in so many ways for energy and O2 that it is ridiculous. I'm sure musk and his crew are well aware of how useful this single thing is. 4. More gravity/magnetic field This helps a lot in working and adapting current things to work on mars, otherwise I hope you don't mind running 30 feet for a wrench you bumped. Also magnetic fields help with protecting against solar storms. Mars has a weak one but it's better than anything the moon has. Generally anyone going to mars is looking at a one way trip with huge risks and rewards, but I believe anyone signing up for this is well aware of this fact. Mining the moon is a stupid meme at this point since there is still 0 cost effective way to mine the moon and use what is mined. H3? great, guess how many places can use it and are willing to pay for mining the moon for it? Probably less than 10. [editline]13th June 2016[/editline] Because it's about pulling a lewis and clark, IIRC when they got signed up to go to the west coast there was a really large idea that there was no coming back. It was an expodition to learn what else is out there and push our own borders.[/QUOTE] There's been proposals to use old lava tunnels under the moon for bases so radiation is a lot less of a hassle to deal with. Distance DOES mean something, you're comparing an 8 day round trip to over a year with current tech. No efficient way to mine the moon? Please tell me how mars would be any different, I'd take the moon over gigantic sand storms at first. Helium 3 is crucial for nuclear fusion which, you know, is looking very promising, so theres that. Again, baby steps, Also solar radiation while traveling to mars, and the fact that the weak magnetic field and thin atmosphere gives hardly any protection at all.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;50505525]You're forgetting some key things that makes mars more viable than the moon 1. It has an atmosphere While weak, heating and more importantly cooling costs are much easier comparatively than on the moon of it's huge range of temperature. This also protects bases from small meteors which won't slow down on the moon, on mars they will. 2. Distance means jack shit with our current rocket methodology The moon is closer sure but still if something happens on the moon or mars, you're pretty much fucked regardless. On mars, you are at least safer and have more resources at disposal depending if 3d printing and other mining methods are sent there 3. Water Huge thing, water can be used in so many ways for energy and O2 that it is ridiculous. I'm sure musk and his crew are well aware of how useful this single thing is. 4. More gravity/magnetic field This helps a lot in working and adapting current things to work on mars, otherwise I hope you don't mind running 30 feet for a wrench you bumped. Also magnetic fields help with protecting against solar storms. Mars has a weak one but it's better than anything the moon has. [/QUOTE] 1) mars's atmosphere is more of a hinderance than a benefit. its too weak to stop cosmic radiation, but thick enough to cause aerodynamic heating on spacecraft. Its too thin for any practical purposes either. micrometerorites aren't really a problem on the moon, certainly nothing worse than the ISS, especially if you setup on the near side. The only good thing about the atmosphere of mars is that you could refine it for oxygen but you would need vast quantities of the atmosphere and it would take a long time. Oxygen could be processed out of lunar rigolith and some work has been done in that area, but mainly it would be processed out of water 2) actually distance makes a whole lot of difference in terms of a colony. If some critical piece of equipment breaks and a spare is used, a second piece of equipment can be launched in a month or so to rebuilt redundancy. Coolant pumps break all the time on the ISS and while they have spares, NASA sends replacements up after the spares are installed. The same would go for other pieces of equipment like suits and complicated machinery, spares would be avalible but replacements could easily be launched routinely and quickly. 3) the moon has more proven water deposites and they are more likely to be less toxic than the salty brine that has been observed on mars. Martian soil itself contains lots of perchlorates as well as tons of mineral salts that would need to be removed at great effort to purify the water. The water on the moon would be in concentrated deposits inside craters, quite possibly much more pure. 4) Mars's gravity is roughly double that of the moon, but its hard to see how that makes it any more suited for human life than the moon. for physiological effects, we simply have no data on what amount of gravity is right for humans, just that any gravity at all its better. As far as chemical refining or processing, just having gravity is all you need, because fluids will behave similar to earth conditions. as far as mars's magnetic field, idk where you're getting your info from because its over 40x weaker than earth's, at about 1500 nanoteslas, where as earth's is 65000 nanoteslas. It is also not even unlike the earth's its actually lopsided, mainly over the southern hemisphere. The part of the earth's atmosphere that does the brunt of protecting against cosmic rays, the ozone layer, is non existent on mars

[QUOTE=Joazzz;50505847]i suggest we use something with a swastika[/QUOTE]No they won't understand, and then they'll think nazis are on the moon. (again) The world isn't ready, Joazzz.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;50506018]I serenely doubt it will be anything other than an american flag, since they are an american based company and primarily US one as well it only makes sense.[/QUOTE] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5bTbVbe4e4[/media] If you want to know where the allegiance of the people who are going to be building the rockets lie, go to 34:00 Like I said earlier, it will be the American flag first because it'll probably be painted on the side of the ship. With many flags to follow. The colony won't be a colony sanctioned by a state, but by a corporation. Will be interesting to see what comes of it. The first symbols there will be the SpaceX logo, and the American flag, because the United States gave SpaceX the resources to achieve it.

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