Small Business Owners Fight Back Against Occupy Wall Street - Polidicks

[QUOTE=tinos;33254181]Thats not work, thats sitting around waiting for something to happen via external sources. No one's going to solve your personal finance issues for you. That's on you.[/QUOTE]This isn't about personal finance issues, this is about corrupt financial institutions gaming the system. A systemic change will not come about by continuing on like nothing's wrong. You're not going to convince thieves to stop stealing by continuing not to steal yourself.

[QUOTE=tinos;33254181]Thats not work, thats sitting around waiting for something to happen via external sources. No one's going to solve your personal finance issues for you. That's on you.[/QUOTE] Yes, marching with ideas, slogans, and signs, then taking police batons and tear gas on is so lazy, right? [editline]12th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=tinos;33253838]They literally have no reason to be there complaining about other people's wealth.[/QUOTE] Really? So there's no corruption within the political system? No problems with donors or lobbyists? No problems with the amount of military spending or police brutality? No problems with economic policy? If by 'no reason to be there' you mean, 'every reason to be there', then you'd be right.

I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, but...Shouldn't some of these businesses have a right to be upset, especially if it's wreaking havoc with their ability to conduct business on a day-to-day basis? Now please note, I am absolutely not making the mistake of generalizing the protesters as...anything, really. But I am kind of concerned about the fact that there is a sizable number who seem to consider these small businesses's losses acceptable casualties for the overall movement. I don't trust Fox News either, but I can't see why it's so inconceivable that in cases where businesses are either economically or physically damaged by protesters (even if it's a minority of them), that the businesses are in any way wrong for asking the protesters to step off.

[QUOTE=itak365;33254468]I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, but...Shouldn't some of these businesses have a right to be upset, especially if it's wreaking havoc with their ability to conduct business on a day-to-day basis? Now please note, I am absolutely not making the mistake of generalizing the protesters as...anything, really. But I am kind of concerned about the fact that there is a sizable number who seem to consider these small businesses's losses acceptable casualties for the overall movement. I don't trust Fox News either, but I can't see why it's so inconceivable that in cases where businesses are either economically or physically damaged by protesters (even if it's a minority of them), that the businesses are in any way wrong for asking the protesters to step off.[/QUOTE] There's no problem with the businesses being upset with the irresponsible vandals. The problem arises when these people attribute any and all irresponsible vandals to the protests and generalize the protesters as irresponsible vandals. This Fox News article is essentially saying the protesters are like this, and are to blame. Don't believe me, just look at their more opinionated sub-section, Fox Nation. One of the top headlines regularly makes use of phrases like "Occupy savages" or "Occupy goons".

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33254306] Really? So there's no corruption within the political system? No problems with donors or lobbyists? No problems with the amount of military spending or police brutality? No problems with economic policy? If by 'no reason to be there' you mean, 'every reason to be there', then you'd be right.[/QUOTE] There is and always has been all of the above. America started because of some of the same reasons, and guess what? It just started with a different cloak, business was and is as usual. You think sitting on a corner, waiting for the [I]same corrupt entity[/I] you speak of, to bring about your fantasy world, is going to work? Best you'll get is another cloak. You think rioting is going to change it? You think a revolution is going to change it? Good luck. There will always be competition, it's part of human nature. With competition comes the liars and cheaters, but theres also the good ones out there. Best you personally can do is be one of the good ones while still bettering yourself and your community. You can do things like not supporting the guys who do it 'wrong'. Not sitting around playing pattycake making bike generator science projects infront of decent working people's place of business. I do however remember my bleeding heart liberal protesting days that some of our teachers put us up to the later part of HS, and beginning of college. So I do have some empathy. Then I got a few jobs, created another job, and minded my business. I do well now, because of me. Not because of some longshot ideal I sat around for waiting on another entity to provide an answer or action to.

[QUOTE=tinos;33254761]You think sitting on a corner, waiting for the [I]same corrupt entity[/I] you speak of, to bring about your fantasy world, is going to work? Best you'll get is another cloak.[/QUOTE] They're protesting to try to get corruption out, not for a corrupt entity to 'bring them a fantasy world'. You think the policies they employ in Scandinavian countries are fantasy?

[QUOTE=tinos;33254761]You can do things like not supporting the guys who do it 'wrong'.[/QUOTE] So, what, that just doesn't count when the protestors are actively teaching people about specific bad businesses and banks? I'd like to remind you that the amount of "decent businesses" feeling negatively affected by these "pattycake bike generator science projects" remains confirmed at [I]one,[/I] so I'm not sure how you're concluding that one the whole they're doing more harm than good by your own metric.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33254971]They're protesting to try to get corruption out, not for a corrupt entity to 'bring them a fantasy world'. You think the policies they employ in Scandinavian countries are fantasy?[/QUOTE] And I said people have been trying to do that forever, humans are humans, people are going to cheat, some will get away with it, others wont, handle your own biz. And I'm sure the promised land of the month (now Scandinavia apparently), has it's own issues. [editline]13th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;33255112]So, what, that just doesn't count when the protestors are actively teaching people about specific bad businesses and banks? I'd like to remind you that the amount of "decent businesses" feeling negatively affected by these "pattycake bike generator science projects" remains confirmed at [I]one,[/I] so I'm not sure how you're concluding that one the whole they're doing more harm than good by your own metric.[/QUOTE] Get a classroom or something, not a damn park, or city streets.

[QUOTE=tinos;33254761]There is and always has been all of the above. America started because of some of the same reasons, and guess what? It just started with a different cloak, business was and is as usual. You think sitting on a corner, waiting for the [I]same corrupt entity[/I] you speak of, to bring about your fantasy world, is going to work? Best you'll get is another cloak. You think rioting is going to change it? You think a revolution is going to change it? Good luck. There will always be competition, it's part of human nature. With competition comes the liars and cheaters, but theres also the good ones out there. Best you personally can do is be one of the good ones while still bettering yourself and your community. You can do things like not supporting the guys who do it 'wrong'. Not sitting around playing pattycake making bike generator science projects infront of decent working people's place of business. I do however remember my bleeding heart liberal protesting days that some of our teachers put us up to the later part of HS, and beginning of college. So I do have some empathy. Then I got a few jobs, created another job, and minded my business. I do well now, because of me. Not because of some longshot ideal I sat around for waiting on another entity to provide an answer or action to.[/QUOTE] "Nah guys, it's totally normal that CEOs make 300 times the income of their base employees while it was just 24 times their pay in the 1960s!" [url]http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_20060621/[/url] "You guys are overreacting. Don't you know that America was built on a foundation where only a select few can succeed at a diminishing rate each year?" [url]http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/06/zakaria-fix-education-restore-social-mobility/[/url] "Those protestors out there are indecent slackers who are getting in the way of real, hardworking people!" [img]http://media.syracuse.com/news/photo/10216140-large.jpg[/img] Above: Not happening "...and besides, even if the system is rigged against regular, hardworking people, it's not like your protesting is going to change anything. Society is what it is!" [img]http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/mlkingmarch_33.jpg[/img] Above: Proved nothing

[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;33255338]"Nah guys, it's totally normal that CEOs make 300 times the income of their base employees while it was just 24 times their pay in the 1960s!" [url]http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_20060621/[/url] "You guys are overreacting. Don't you know that America was built on a foundation where only a select few can succeed at a diminishing rate each year?" [url]http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/06/zakaria-fix-education-restore-social-mobility/[/url] "Those protestors out there are indecent slackers who are getting in the way of real, hardworking people!" [img]http://media.syracuse.com/news/photo/10216140-large.jpg[/img] Above: Not happening "...and besides, even if the system is rigged against regular, hardworking people, it's not like your protesting is going to change anything. Society is what it is!" [img]http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/mlkingmarch_33.jpg[/img] Above: Proved nothing[/QUOTE] Basically this. I concur with these points. [editline]12th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=tinos;33255283]And I said people have been trying to do that forever, humans are humans, people are going to cheat, some will get away with it, others wont, handle your own biz. And I'm sure the promised land of the month (now Scandinavia apparently), has it's own issues.[/QUOTE] And their have been differing levels of corruption and inequality at different times. We should always be working to fight corruption, at some times more than other times. And 'promised land of the month'? There are nations that change in structure and integrity as time goes on, and thus the nation that sets a good example changes from time to time. Changing your opinion on something so that it works with the facts is not hypocritical.

[QUOTE=tinos;33255283]Get a classroom or something, not a damn park, or city streets.[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware the best way to change public opinions was to go hide yourself somewhere out of public view!

[QUOTE=tinos;33254761]There is and always has been all of the above. America started because of some of the same reasons, and guess what? It just started with a different cloak, business was and is as usual. You think sitting on a corner, waiting for the [I]same corrupt entity[/I] you speak of, to bring about your fantasy world, is going to work? Best you'll get is another cloak. You think rioting is going to change it? You think a revolution is going to change it? Good luck. There will always be competition, it's part of human nature. With competition comes the liars and cheaters, but theres also the good ones out there. Best you personally can do is be one of the good ones while still bettering yourself and your community. You can do things like not supporting the guys who do it 'wrong'. Not sitting around playing pattycake making bike generator science projects infront of decent working people's place of business. I do however remember my bleeding heart liberal protesting days that some of our teachers put us up to the later part of HS, and beginning of college. So I do have some empathy. Then I got a few jobs, created another job, and minded my business. I do well now, because of me. Not because of some longshot ideal I sat around for waiting on another entity to provide an answer or action to.[/QUOTE] I really hope your stupid doesn't rub off on people irl. and then tinos was the corruption.

How dare the occupy movement use the only restrooms in the area. After all, they [URL="http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/occupied-portable-bathrooms/"]have more than enough of their own restrooms.[/URL] The other issues are relatively complex, but the fact of the matter is, if they can't use a facility they will do it on the street.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33255401]Basically this. I concur with these points. [editline]12th November 2011[/editline] And their have been differing levels of corruption and inequality at different times. We should always be working to fight corruption, at some times more than other times. And 'promised land of the month'? There are nations that change in structure and integrity as time goes on, and thus the nation that sets a good example changes from time to time. Changing your opinion on something so that it works with the facts is not hypocritical.[/QUOTE] I agree we should 'fight' corruption. I just do not agree with how this particular group is going about it, you need to start actually involving yourselves in the system you are trying to change, not sitting around asking for the change. In this particular case, its all coming down to money and power which is a whole different beast that people have literally been struggling with forever. As far as I know it's never been tamed, otherwise this bull wouldn't be going on for the millionth time in history. So good luck to you there. You just gotta do yourself some good, your community some good, in the long run it'll be the little stuff each one of us does, or doesn't do, that will make any change, and it'll still probably only be on the local level. Start with your communities by being an active and productive member. Not just the group over there that is pissing people off with their antics.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33245333]It's ok to destroy my business and the only income because their intentions are good. You protest for fair life and jobs and yet all you do is take away jobs. I know I wouldn't be pleased.[/QUOTE] This is not what they are doing what the fuck are you on.

I hate these fucking protesters. I live in a small city in NZ, I [I][B]live[/B][/I] with people who claim to 'Occupy', who post videos on Youtube, and get all up in arms. Said people ARE HARDLY THERE, they sit at home with their top end laptops, listening to the shittiest music I didn't beleive was possible to produce on their stupidly large sound-systems, smoking copious amounts of weed and directly being a nuisance TO ME. They have their 5-800 dollar tent that they set up in my local town square and left it there. They have huge parties till 6am with 'like minded' people at my flat, get high on acid and shrooms and fuck knows what else and treat me, my girlfriend, and my friends like we're some kind of lesser hominid, instead of sitting in a tent or whatever. I pay the rent, bills and whatever else, I never did a thing to them EVER, except continue suffer their hipocracy. I can't be in my own home, that I pay to live in, without drugged up fucks treating me like I don't belong there. I can't take a shit or have a shower without them wondering who the fuck I am, when they don't even live there, and use my stuff. They make out they're hippies. They don't wash and take drugs, yet they aren't in no way selfless. They have every creature comfort ever, every luxury, never want for any consumer item. Travel the fucking world. Never have a problem with money, unemployment, education OR anything, but bitch and whine about how much they SUFFER, HOW UNFAIR THE WORLD IS. One of them wanted to not attend their exams to 'occupy', it's partner got shitty at it and they argued like dogs because it said the other wasn't doing enough and it was embarrassing them, YET THEY DON'T ACTUALLY GO AND PROTEST, YET THEY REMIND YOU HOW MUCH BETTER THEY ARE THAN YOU FOR PROTESTING. At the very least they stink like hippies, and I WISH I was just being nasty. They actually fucking reek. I've worked jobs where I've had rotting matter covering me that would be more appealing than the body odour of some of them. One said famously 'I don't smell, so I don't wash or use deodorant, haha', whilst making me physically gag. I'm taking a year off study to work and support myself, by the way. I actually go out, work shit jobs from 12am to 8am, and WORK to get what I need and want. I get told I should protest to 'get myself a job', instead of handing out CV's and actually finding a job. They stop me from sleeping, ruin my stuff, steal my food, generally rip me off and tell me how considerate they are The head hippy fuck is supposed to be my friend, known him since high school. He causes the most grief for me. Dispute giving him the benefit of the doubt FOR YEARS he continually fucks me over, rips me off and takes every opportunity to run me down. I was a hopelessly nice guy I guess, but I've become bitter as hell, now that I've been constantly taken advantage of. People have been asking me for years how and why I put up with this prick. I wish I actually fucking knew, I suppose he was my friend. Not anymore, It's been 'the last staw' over and over again. It's not like the hippies weren't catered to either. The town council came to the party, the organised meetings, security, toilets and other amenities. The hippies just mouthed off incomprehensibly and angrily at all their meetings. They fight internally. They have a large amount of conflicting propaganda around their site. THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT, THEY CAN'T AGREE ON ANYTHING. THEY GIVE UP PROTESTING TO GO TO HIPPY FESTIVALS. [I]DEDICATION. [/I] They [I]shit, piss, take drugs[/I] on the street, they abuse passers by. They destroy public property, and beg all the neighbouring businesses for free food. No, they actually, seriously, do. They have never once given anybody a rational reason to take them seriously. If had, they'd have instantly undermined themselves with their behaviour anyway. They use this shit as an excuse to have a fucking non stop hippy party, maybe to get famous, to give themselves the self-satisfaction for being martyrs for the 'good of everyone'. They are the nastiest, scummiest assholes I have ever had the misfortune of knowing, and they will shit in your face just to tell you how caring and considerate they are, and be so fucking amiable and friendly whilst they do it. I gave up believing that they may actually are nice people who actually give a damn, time and time again they proved to me that they're just as narcissistic and plastic as any spoilt rich brat. I'M ACTUALLY all for the NYC protests etc, the message 'supposedly' warning of the evils of capitalism etc, but these bandwagoning fucks who jump on a cause because its a fucking great excuse to act out and get rep from their hippy friends fuck me off to hell. I'm sure there is people there who actually care and give a damn, but I've been directly fucked over by these hippy poseurs who make up the vast majority of them, and 'run' the operation. They completely undermine their own cause, they smother any real, decent message that this whole shebang was supposed to promote. They are the single biggest threat to anything good coming out of the protest movement. I am not a hateful person, but I have been driven to a hatred of this entire fiasco. This is [I]my[/I] experience of the 'Occupy' movement

[quote]They shit, piss, take drugs on the street, they abuse passers by. They destroy public property, and beg all the neighbouring businesses for free food. No, they actually, seriously, do.[/quote] What are you talking about? That's not the NZ protesters, that's half of your entire country.

[QUOTE=Contag;33255845]What are you talking about? That's not the NZ protesters, that's half of your entire country.[/QUOTE] Granted I can't actually disagree. Go to town on a Thursday or Saturday and that is what most people are doing. The difference being, the hippies want special treatment and recognition for doing it.

[QUOTE=Fedalkyn;33255851]Granted I can't actually disagree. Go to town on a Thursday or Saturday and that is what most people are doing. The difference being, the hippies want special treatment and recognition for doing it.[/QUOTE] Who seriously throws 'hippie' around as a derogatory term? 'Hippies' in the 60s and 70s protested for civil rights and the end of the Vietnam War for god's sake, show them a little respect.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33256245]Who seriously throws 'hippie' around as a derogatory term? 'Hippies' in the 60s and 70s protested for civil rights and the end of the Vietnam War for god's sake, show them a little respect.[/QUOTE] That's what they call themselves. That's what they [I]want[/I] to be called. They aren't [I]really[/I] hippies in strict sense. I'm sorry, it's just what I'm used to calling them. If you can think of a better title for them, tell me.

[QUOTE=Fedalkyn;33256392]That's what they call themselves. That's what they [I]want[/I] to be called. They aren't [I]really[/I] hippies in strict sense. I'm sorry, it's just what I'm used to calling them. If you can think of a better title for them, tell me.[/QUOTE] If that's the case, then I have no problem with you calling them that, it seemed like they were just protesters who you were arrogantly referring to as 'hippies'.

Well good for them,i hope it ends up in a huge riot and ends with a goddamn huge fireball. Plus,if they are hippies,i smell Saxton Hale somewhere close...

About time. This protest was dumb and was never going to have any effect (ever)

[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33257424]This protest was dumb and was never going to have any effect (ever)[/QUOTE] Why was it dumb, just because you think it is? When people come out in protest of income inequality and corruption, you think that's dumb?

If these protests fail, then it seems like the americans can't even help themselves. Land of the lazy. Edit: Or maybe changing anything would just be too communazimuslim.

I'm not saying either side is right, but when the small business owners and common people who still have jobs and even some unemployed that are just trying to hold on ask them to stop, they should. I don't know why the would even have to steal if they are doing a group effort to maintain the group.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33257483]Why was it dumb, just because you think it is? When people come out in protest of income inequality and corruption, you think that's dumb?[/QUOTE] The idea behind the protests isn't dumb. I always wanted something like this to happen, in that sense it's cool. The [I]majority[/I] of the protesters themselves are dumb.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33257483]Why was it dumb, just because you think it is? When people come out in protest of income inequality and corruption, you think that's dumb?[/QUOTE] 'Occupying' a place isn't going to affect the major corporations [b]at all[/b]. That's why they're satirically throwing fliers (E.G. McDonald's job applications). [editline]13th November 2011[/editline] If you really want to cause them trouble, you wouldn't just sit outside their headquarters, showing to them you have nothing better to do. You would boycott their services, bring light to alternatives. All they are hurting right now, is the small businesses of the areas they are occupying by scaring off potential customers. All they are showing by being there is the number of people behind their movement. Do you really think corporations making billions will be in the slightest intimidated by a few thousand people?

[QUOTE=Fedalkyn;33258227]The idea behind the protests isn't dumb. I always wanted something like this to happen, in that sense it's cool. The [I]majority[/I] of the protesters themselves are dumb.[/QUOTE] Or it's just the louder, annoying and attentionwhoring minority that's fucking retarded. There's always a small group of people ruining the possibility for something good for a larger group.

[QUOTE=Van-man;33258410]Or it's just the louder, annoying and attentionwhoring minority that's fucking retarded. There's always a small group of people ruining the possibility for something good for a larger group.[/QUOTE] I've heard this argument in conversation before, and where I'd like to believe that to be true, from all I've seen first hand (both voluntarily and involuntarily) It doesn't seem to be the case. I've talked to the people 'in-charge', live amongst the most 'dedicated' members and heard books worth of their reasonings, rallyings and (for all intensive purposes) noise. They're aimless, abrasive, unreasonable, illogical and crass. They seem dedicated only to prolonging their unwanted oxygen wasting convention. Having a ball, making a big mess, getting mean rep with a good excuse to tell their friends/cops/any poor hapless bastard that crosses them.