• Deus Ex (2000) Director: VR is a fad
    145 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48051789]I'm a little skeptical of VR/AR because it basically defeats the one of the purposes of gaming: Having fun without moving. When I get home from school/work/whatever physical activity, I don't want to immediately get up again. I want to relax and only have to move my arms at most. VR/AR defeats the entire purpose of that.[/QUOTE] ...How? You know the vast majority of existing games with VR support are made for sitting down right? There's no games that make you stand up.
[QUOTE=pebkac;48051289]I can definitely see it becoming popular with the racing/flight sim crowd. It's relatively easy to include VR in those games and it works well because you're just sitting down in one place the whole time anyway. Games that require you to walk around and physically interact with the world are going to have a tougher time though. Those are going to have to be made specifically with limitations of VR in mind, and/or require special equipment like those treadmills that allow you to walk around freely. This could lead to a huge chicken and egg problem where people won't want to buy a VR headset because there's too few games for it out there, and developers won't be making games for VR because they won't have a large enough userbase.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, Freespace 2 SCP with VR support. Being able to peer around for that Mara as you try to keep on it to get a missile lock, Anxiously craning about for Dragons, holy crud. I wonder if it could be done.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48051815]...How? You know the vast majority of existing games with VR support are made for sitting down right? There's no games that make you stand up.[/QUOTE] Because the kind of VR/AR I'm talking about isn't just a headset, and to be honest what's the point of VR/AR if it's just a headset?
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48051835]Because the kind of VR/AR I'm talking about isn't just a headset, and to be honest what's the point of VR/AR if it's just a headset?[/QUOTE] ...if it can make you feel immersed, what's wrong with being a headset? "I don't want to listen to music through speakers or headphones, what's the point of listening to music with nobody playing an instrument next to you?" Your brain is fooled all the same. Your eyes see the virtual world as if it were the real world and your ears hear it. You look around and it's everywhere. You sense the scale.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48051423]I'd personally be more thrown off if people tried it and it was just like "umm yeah it was kinda cool lol" I mean, hell it's VR, it's feeling like you are actually in that virtual world. It's [I]supposed[/I] to be amazing. Like finding God, or having sex. Although I don't think those two are quite in the same level, I mean, plenty of people have sex :v:[/QUOTE] I've actually met more 'um yeah, it was kinda cool' people than converts. That's why I'm thrown off. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] And the people saying it were more developers than gamers. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48051879]...if it can make you feel immersed, what's wrong with being a headset? "I don't want to listen to music through speakers or headphones, what's the point of listening to music with nobody playing an instrument next to you?" Your brain is fooled all the same. Your eyes see the virtual world as if it were the real world and your ears hear it. You look around and it's everywhere. You sense the scale.[/QUOTE] And then you see something that doesn't exactly meet that scale.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48051879]...if it can make you feel immersed, what's wrong with being a headset? "I don't want to listen to music through speakers or headphones, what's the point of listening to music with nobody playing an instrument next to you?" Your brain is fooled all the same. Your eyes see the virtual world as if it were the real world and your ears hear it. You look around and it's everywhere. You sense the scale.[/QUOTE] Yeah I have a DK1 and it turns out your brain is fooled really easily. The more the game is similar to what you're doing IRL, the easier it is fooled. When I mimicked the viewmodel in real life I immediately felt like they were my hands. I also looked stupid but still it feels weird! [url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwn1w7MJvk[/url] This video pretty much shows what I mean. It's not VR but the same thing applies. Hopefully what I said makes sense lol.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48051947] And then you see something that doesn't exactly meet that scale.[/QUOTE] Like what exactly? If a dev is incompetent and scales a model incorrectly that's not really a VR fault, is it.
I can see AR catching on as well, but I don't think it'll have as many applications in gaming as VR. AR is more general purpose.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48052047]Like what exactly? If a dev is incompetent and scales a model incorrectly that's not really a VR fault, is it.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? Its incredibly difficult to make things to scale. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] Evidence: Every fucking doorway in any game ever.
i'm excited for vr that really fucks my mind, like some heavy use of non euclidian geometry and having different things render differently for each eye, the kind of shit that'd come with a puke bucket warning [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] i want a game over screen that has the words GAME OVER bouncing around differently for each eye, i want to have first person music visualizers [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] i want to get shot in the face and watch as i rise from my corpse, i want to have sniping where you actually have to look down the scope
I don't think VR will be bad, i just think that most people won't care.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48052102]Are you kidding me? Its incredibly difficult to make things to scale. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] Evidence: Every fucking doorway in any game ever.[/QUOTE] What games are you playing exactly that have such obviously wrong doorways? Also there's no way that someone developing a game for VR won't playtest it and see what feels wrong. In Source, for instance, you can scale things accurately because you know how much one unit in Hammer is in real-world scale. In most engines you're able to do the same, all it takes is not being lazy and doing half-assed shit.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48052350]What games are you playing exactly that have such obviously wrong doorways? Also there's no way that someone developing a game for VR won't playtest it and see what feels wrong. In Source, for instance, you can scale things accurately because you know how much one unit in Hammer is in real-world scale. In most engines you're able to do the same, all it takes is not being lazy and doing half-assed shit.[/QUOTE] Except all of Source's doors and scaling are way shorter.
I dreamed about a game a bit like harvest moon or animal crossing but in VR and thought about how cool it'd be to be able to actually see the faces of the people I'm talking to up close and stuff.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48052463]Except all of Source's doors and scaling are way shorter.[/QUOTE] yeah, Source has some fucked up proportions because of the way the camera is and how broad the characters shoulders are.
Can I say I'm more interested in VR applications other than gaming right now? Gaming will certainly come into its own in time, I'm sure, but we really don't understand how gaming in VR should work right now. Stuff like Tiltbrush, Media Molecule's Dreams, that sort of creative outlet? That's going to be incredible. It already is. Cockpit simulators are fun too. Those already work really well, and VR is going to be huge in those markets. It's a new tech with potential. We'll have to see how it does, but I'm optimistic.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48052602]yeah, Source has some fucked up proportions because of the way the camera is and how broad the characters shoulders are.[/QUOTE] Its not any better in Fallout, Watch_Dogs and Grandtheft Auto.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48052636]Can I say I'm more interested in VR applications other than gaming right now? Gaming will certainly come into its own in time, I'm sure, but we really don't understand how gaming in VR should work right now. Stuff like Tiltbrush, Media Molecule's Dreams, that sort of creative outlet? That's going to be incredible. It already is. Cockpit simulators are fun too. Those already work really well, and VR is going to be huge in those markets. It's a new tech with potential. We'll have to see how it does, but I'm optimistic.[/QUOTE] i want to see all the cool art projects that take advantage of VR, or even just 'virtual experiences" which would basically be movies or something that you can have a limited range of movement with and be able to look around and stuff, going to be rad as hell
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48051879]...if it can make you feel immersed, what's wrong with being a headset? "I don't want to listen to music through speakers or headphones, what's the point of listening to music with nobody playing an instrument next to you?" Your brain is fooled all the same. Your eyes see the virtual world as if it were the real world and your ears hear it. You look around and it's everywhere. You sense the scale.[/QUOTE] Again, I haven't actually tried it, but you're still using a mouse and keyboard. Or a controller. Or whatever else you might be using, whatever. I don't think I could really get immersed in that way into, say, a first person shooter, while i'm still just using a mouse and keyboard. Might be cool for racing games if you have a wheel, or if someone comes out with a mecha arcade game or something with a full on cockpit, that'd be cool as shit. Otherwise, I don't see much appeal personally.
[QUOTE=elowin;48052688]Again, I haven't actually tried it, but you're still using a mouse and keyboard. Or a controller. Or whatever else you might be using, whatever. I don't think I could really get immersed in that way into, say, a first person shooter, while i'm still just using a mouse and keyboard. Might be cool for racing games if you have a wheel, or if someone comes out with a mecha arcade game or something with a full on cockpit, that'd be cool as shit. Otherwise, I don't see much appeal personally.[/QUOTE] You should check out Elite:Dangerous if you ever get a chance to use a VR headset. It's one of the best experiences on VR right now.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48052703]You should check out Elite:Dangerous if you ever get a chance to use a VR headset. It's one of the best experiences on VR right now.[/QUOTE] That's still just using a keyboard and mouse, though, as far as I know.
[QUOTE=elowin;48052688]Again, I haven't actually tried it, but you're still using a mouse and keyboard. Or a controller. Or whatever else you might be using, whatever. I don't think I could really get immersed in that way into, say, a first person shooter, while i'm still just using a mouse and keyboard. Might be cool for racing games if you have a wheel, or if someone comes out with a mecha arcade game or something with a full on cockpit, that'd be cool as shit. Otherwise, I don't see much appeal personally.[/QUOTE] There are VR inputs you know, they can even track some basic hand gestures such as pointing. Take a look at Oculus Touch. Mouse and keyboard is very bad for VR, even a gamepad is better - however, a gamepad is still awful for FPS in VR.
[QUOTE=elowin;48052716]That's still just using a keyboard and mouse, though, as far as I know.[/QUOTE] Not the way I play it. I use a HOTAS. The same one they modeled the cockpit controls off of.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48052673]Its not any better in Fallout, Watch_Dogs and Grandtheft Auto.[/QUOTE] ...What's wrong with doorways in GTA V again? I play that game every day and mostly in third person, it seems fine to me.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48052938]...What's wrong with doorways in GTA V again? I play that game every day and mostly in third person, it seems fine to me.[/QUOTE] Try first person and then compares the doors you can enter and the ones you can't. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] A lot of open world games tend to shorten the doors or make them much larger.
The only thing they have yet to fix for VR headsets is blurring what our eyes aren't focused on, distance-wise. Currently everything near and far away is rendered at the same sharpness, which isn't the way our eyes work in reality and this makes some users nauseated.
[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;48053138]The only thing they have yet to fix for VR headsets is blurring what our eyes aren't focused on, distance-wise. Currently everything near and far away is rendered at the same sharpness, which isn't the way our eyes work in reality and this makes some users nauseated.[/QUOTE] That doesn't quite make sense. Since VR headsets use stereoscopy to display content, that should, by default, create a depth of field. Depth of field is a function of the way your brain recognizes stereoscopy and focus. It's in your eyes, not in your goggles, so if the 3D implementation is done properly it should do it automatically.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48052953]Try first person and then compares the doors you can enter and the ones you can't. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] A lot of open world games tend to shorten the doors or make them much larger.[/QUOTE] So not necessarily replying to this post in particular, just some points you made earlier on. I'm not trying to convince you or anything, since you're obviously a serious skeptic, and I'm a serious supporter, but I just thought I could reply and put some more information out there. So number one is your complaints of motion sickness, what units have you tried? DK1? If just DK1, that's likely due to the lack of head tracking, which can cause serious motion sickness. The head tracking in DK2/CC/CB pretty much eliminates that motion sickness by giving the headset almost perfect positional tracking, if you've one of those, and still get sick (whereas 95% of people experience no problems with those headsets), it'd probably a problem with your nervous system and inner ear, rather than the technology itself. As for your current argument about scale in games, yes, world scaling is notoriously difficult in games. However, the immersion and way of inspection that VR offers have done a lot to fix this problem. If you look at a lot of the demos that exist today, even on cardboard, they show a remarkable aptitude for display and manipulation of scale, its quite impressive.
[QUOTE=V12US;48051036]When people hear VR/AR, they think of stuff like this. [video=youtube;cML814JD09g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cML814JD09g[/video] Unfortunately, we're nowhere near this kind of tech level yet.[/QUOTE] Look in the video subform for where that was posted... its real and is happening in ohio
[QUOTE=woolio1;48053482]That doesn't quite make sense. Since VR headsets use stereoscopy to display content, that should, by default, create a depth of field. Depth of field is a function of the way your brain recognizes stereoscopy and focus. It's in your eyes, not in your goggles, so if the 3D implementation is done properly it should do it automatically.[/QUOTE] I think he means focus as in everything else going blurry when you hold your hand up to your face. That's something goggles can't replicate accurately because they don't know where you're looking exactly.
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