UMass students stage a "Shit-In" protest for gender neutral bathrooms
124 replies, posted
[QUOTE=plunger435;51385750]Are you going to elaborate on how that remotely applies to this?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't have to if you read the thread.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385366]Apparently from a different website (College Reform) it already turned out the university has around 200 Gender inclusive restrooms.
[url]https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8409[/url][/QUOTE]
The university has already catered to the demands. These protests are about making all of the bathrooms gender neutral. As well among other things that BDA pointed out.
Bathrooms are only segregated by gender in the first place because of societal precepts of propriety. I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with both men and women so long as we're all there to use the toilets.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385725]I'm okay when people want their piece of the pie. Thats normal and to be expected, any less and there is something wrong.
But when those same people start feeling entitled to the whole pie, they can go fuck themselves.[/QUOTE]
Yah, I would like to remind people that these are pretty massive changes for typically suited for the transgendered community, which polls around 0.3-0.5% (.5 being generous) of the US population in recent studies.
LGBT totals around 3.5% total if there are any people from that group that would care for it for some reason.
[url]http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf[/url]
Ofcourse there are other things were brought up that they might be seeking, but I think people need to realize the amount of action a University is doing for a very tiny fraction of the population.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385762]I wouldn't have to if you read the thread.
The university has already catered to the demands. These protests are about making all of the bathrooms gender neutral. As well among other things that BDA pointed out.[/QUOTE]
Still not seeing the issue with it that's got you so heated.
Can't wait until pee on a toilet seat or leaving the seat up becomes a part of the patriarchy or male privilege.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385774]Yah, I would like to remind people that these are pretty massive changes for typically suited for the transgendered community, which polls around 0.3-0.5% (.5 being generous) of the US population in recent studies.
LGBT totals around 3.5% total if there are any people from that group that would care for it for some reason.
[url]http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf[/url]
Ofcourse there are other things were brought up that they might be seeking, but I think people need to realize the amount of action a University is doing for a very tiny fraction of the population.[/QUOTE]
I'm not seeing either of you post any reasons how this negatively effects you.
What the fuck is a "gender neutral" bathroom exactly?
[QUOTE=Fantastical;51385781]What the fuck is a "gender neutral" bathroom exactly?[/QUOTE]
Stalls
[QUOTE=Fantastical;51385781]What the fuck is a "gender neutral" bathroom exactly?[/QUOTE]
A bathroom that doesn't have male or female on the front door.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51385767]Bathrooms are only segregated by gender in the first place because of societal precepts of propriety. I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with both men and women so long as we're all there to use the toilets.[/QUOTE]
What 'precepts of propriety' Essentially means is principle of courtesy.
aka people of both genders want their privacy from the other gender. For good reason.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385792]What 'precepts of propriety' Essentially means is principle of courtesy.
aka people of both genders want their privacy from the other gender. For good reason.[/QUOTE]
That's what stalls are for.
And since people clearly can't handle MTFs and FTMs clearly this is what will be needed lol
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385800]That's what stalls are for.
And since people clearly can't handle MTFs and FTMs clearly this is what will be needed lol[/QUOTE]
I agree. There will need to be gender neutral bathrooms. But not all of them should be gender neutral.
Just because some people in this thread think its not a big deal, 90% of western civilization does think it is.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385807]I agree. There will need to be gender neutral bathrooms. But not all of them should be gender neutral.
Just because some people in this thread think its not a big deal, 90% of western civilization does think it is.[/QUOTE]
But why not
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385807]I agree. There will need to be gender neutral bathrooms. But not all of them should be gender neutral.
Just because some people in this thread think its not a big deal, 90% of western civilization does think it is.[/QUOTE]
You still haven't said why you wouldn't be able to use a neutral restroom.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385810]But why not[/QUOTE]
Like i said. Men want their privacy from women. Men don't want to walk out of their stall and see a bunch of women gossiping and putting on makeup, women don't want to hear men taking brutal shits and pissing on the floor.
This is a societal norm for a reason. Somebody didn't just think it up arbitrarily an suddenly convince every other citizen of the west it was the way to go. It was a universally decided fact.
The solution to the ignorance of the masses isn't acquiescence, it's education. Teach people that there's no inherent reason to have gender-segregated bathrooms instead of giving up and going with the status quo. Progress isn't made through silence.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385818]Like i said. Men want their privacy from women. Men don't want to walk out of their stall and see a bunch of women gossiping and putting on makeup, women don't want to hear men taking brutal shits and pissing on the floor.
This is a societal norm for a reason. Somebody didn't just think it up arbitrarily an suddenly convince every other citizen of the west it was the way to go. It was a universally decided fact.[/QUOTE]
You think womens' bathrooms are clean?
lol. From hearing the descriptions from my friends, they really aren't. I can at least say that I've never seen blood on the floor in the men's restroom.
So putting the brutal shits and pissing on the floor which women sometimes do too, you'd have to be really really grumpy to get enraged at the sight of GOSSIP and MAKEUP.
Progress isn't forcing shit that most people don't want because of the volatility and excessive noise making of the few.
Some people in this thread are acting like they know whats good for society lol
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385826]You think womens' bathrooms are clean?
lol. From hearing the descriptions from my friends, they really aren't. I can at least say that I've never seen blood on the floor in the men's restroom.
So putting the brutal shits and pissing on the floor which women sometimes do too, you'd have to be really really grumpy to get enraged at the sight of GOSSIP and MAKEUP.[/QUOTE]
You keep missing my point.
PRIVACY.
people want PRIVACY. A stall isn't enough obviously because gender segregated bathrooms have existed for quiet a long time all over the world.
But you guys are right, you must know whats best for civilization of the bathroom front. lol
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385827]Progress isn't forcing shit that most people don't want because of the volatility and excessive noise making of the few.
Some people in this thread are acting like they know whats good for society lol[/QUOTE]
You don't dismiss someones concerns if it's a minority. You look at their concerns and see if their solutions are valid. Blacks were a relatively small part of the population and FUCK I PLAYED THAT CARD DIDN'T I.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51385779]I'm not seeing either of you post any reasons how this negatively effects you.[/QUOTE]
It affects how tuition/tax dollars are spent in effective ways. Renovating/constructing 250 whole new bathrooms isn't cheap and effective when you are trying to fix a problem for demographic that makes up less than 1% of the US population. Hence why students might have a valid interest on any reason a school spends their money in such a way.
I personally would rather people just use any existing facility with whatever gender they identify and people just get use to that. Surely that is reasonable and progressive enough that anyone can agree.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385836]It affects how tuition dollars are spent in effective ways. Renovating/constructing 250 whole new bathrooms isn't cheap and effective when you are trying to fix a problem for demographic that makes up less than 1% of the US population. Hence why students might have a valid interest on any reason a school spends their money in such a way.
I personally would rather people just use any existing facility with whatever gender they identify and people just get use to that. Surely that is reasonable and progressive enough that anyone can agree.[/QUOTE]
Ideally we'd have that and new bathrooms that are built being made gender neutral from the start imo, and when old ones need renovation, use that opportunity to make them neutral
Overspending of tax dollars and forcefully changing societal norms when nobody asked is what university is all about!
Except for the fact that transgender people would then have to deal from bigots who wouldnt be able to handle the fact they exist.
[I]all[/I] bathrooms should be stalls in my opinion. Makes everything less damn awkward.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385836]It affects how tuition dollars are spent in effective ways. Renovating/constructing 250 whole new bathrooms isn't cheap and effective when you are trying to fix a problem for demographic that makes up less than 1% of the US population. Hence why students might have a valid interest on any reason a school spends their money in such a way.
I personally would rather people just use any existing facility with whatever gender they identify and people just get use to that. Surely that is reasonable and progressive enough that anyone can agree.[/QUOTE]
But they're not renovating all the old buildings, just building news one and making sure the new buildings follow the standard.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385842]Overspending of tax dollars and forcefully changing societal norms when nobody asked is what university is all about![/QUOTE]
Clearly you havent been paying attention to anything considering people have asked to change these norms.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385842]Overspending of tax dollars and forcefully changing societal norms when nobody asked is what university is all about![/QUOTE]
I'm sure they said that in the 60s and fuck im doing it again but it just turns out this is the exact same thing people have bitched about without building much of a strong case against the proposition
You could also prove that it is prohibitively expensive. Womens bathrooms are already pretty much as needed to be neutral, the only ~~~problematic~~~ aspect in the mens restrooms are the urinals, and the lack of baby changing stations but many men's rooms are already getting those. And of course, bathrooms need renovating occasionally because humans are disgusting and destructive so it could simply be done then.
i, for one, would love the rise of combo urinal/toilet bathrooms
not enough exist in the world and they are fantastic. for pissing, it avoids the problem of piss on the toilet seat, and for shitting almost ensures that people have minimal opportunities to fuck things up
[QUOTE=plunger435;51385851]But they're not renovating all the old buildings, just building news one and making sure the new buildings follow the standard.[/QUOTE]
[quote=CampusReform article]“Currently, there are more than 200 gender-inclusive, single-user restrooms on campus, and during the coming year more than 50 will be added, [b]either by construction or by converting single-user ‘Men’ or ‘Women’ facilities to ‘Restrooms,’” he explained, adding that “All new construction and major renovations on campus will include gender-inclusive restrooms.[/b][/quote]
Again fantastic they are already so far with their goal (cause there is virtually no 'downside' besides the money spent), but my point is to show that this might not be a realistic solution for every university or eventually the public sector since the population affected is so low.
I think what we are failing to pay attention to in this thread is the fact that the majority of society is against this. The only people who support the gender neutrality take over of all washrooms are lgbtq people. Which make up a small percentage of society.
I know you keep trying to compare it to race, but you're missing the mark.
Obviously I am not asking for immediate social upheaval. I'm saying male/female-only bathrooms are such because of arbitrary (and sexist) social constructs - but as a closeted trans woman, I personally continue to use the men's bathroom as much as it pains me to relegate myself to maleness, because I don't want to put myself at risk of harassment. Things will not and cannot change overnight. I'm just raising the point now so eventually we may be able to move forward with gendee neutral bathrooms.
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