UMass students stage a "Shit-In" protest for gender neutral bathrooms
124 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385869]I think what we are failing to pay attention to in this thread is the fact that the majority of society is against this. The only people who support the gender neutrality take over of all washrooms are lgbtq people. Which make up a small percentage of society.
I know you keep trying to compare it to race, but you're missing the mark.[/QUOTE]
Is the majority of society against it and will they remain so as it spreads?
Let's find out by seeing what the student body thinks as it gets rolled out! Studying populations instead of making assertions and appeals to tradition is fun.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385867]Again fantastic they are already so far with their goal (cause there is virtually no 'downside' besides the money spent), but my point is to show that this might not be a realistic solution for every university or eventually the public sector since the population affected is so low.[/QUOTE]
Single User restrooms mean places that are already gender neutral except for the sign on the door. The rest it says will only be changed when major renovation are taking place. I.E. they're already spending money to completely redo the building and its restrooms anyways. There's literally no downside, not even money in this case since it would already be spent on the restrooms anyways.
I can see it happening now: Restrooms become gender neutral, a few women get sexually harassed or abused, protests about how women need a safe place to use the bathroom, women's only restrooms come back, but the rest all remain gender neutral.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51385874]Obviouslybecause of arbitrary (and sexist) social constructs [/QUOTE]
I don't think this is accurate at all.
Having a need for privacy from the opposite gender, for the majority of people is a form of courtesy to the other gender.
It's not sexist if its a courtesy that is displayed from both genders. And if you think it is then you should look the word up.
And like the post above me said, sexual misconduct in shared bathrooms is a whole other can of worms and arguably the MAIN reason for segregated bathrooms.
Predators will have a field day with these new bathrooms.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385889]I don't think this is accurate at all.
Having a need for privacy from the opposite gender, for the majority of people is a form of courtesy to the other gender.
It's not sexist if its a courtesy that is displayed from both genders. And if you think it is then you should look the word up.
And like the post above me said, sexual misconduct in shared bathrooms is a whole other can of worms and arguably the MAIN reason for segregated bathrooms.
Predators will have a field day with these new bathrooms.[/QUOTE]
They already do since rampant lesbians abuse and rape other women and gays keep doing it to men as well. Bisexuals have been banned because they won't leave people alone; they must go outside and find a convenient tree.
Seriously bathroom harassment is a borderline made up crime. And if it happens, you can prosecute it.
Stalls can provide the necessary privacy.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385889]I don't think this is accurate at all.
Having a need for privacy from the opposite gender, for the majority of people is a form of courtesy to the other gender.
It's not sexist if its a courtesy that is displayed from both genders. And if you think it is then you should look the word up.
And like the post above me said, sexual misconduct in shared bathrooms is a whole other can of worms and arguably the MAIN reason for segregated bathrooms.
Predators will have a field day with these new bathrooms.[/QUOTE]
My argument isn't that predators will have a field day with them.
My argument is that the people advocating so hard for this now will advocate for a reversal for female only restrooms when the inevitable happens.
It's going to end up exactly like the port-o-johns on this construction site: All gender neutral except the ones that have "Female Only" stickers and locks on the doors.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51385885]Single User restrooms mean places that are already gender neutral except for the sign on the door. The rest it says will only be changed when major renovation are taking place. I.E. they're already spending money to completely redo the building and its restrooms anyways. There's literally no downside, [b]not even money in this case since it would already be spent on the restrooms anyways.[/b][/QUOTE]
This is simply not true at all. I am not sure how you just divorced the idea that these restrooms were already going to be built anyways without the gender inclusive initiative, but your argument is simply untrue.
Universities don't renovate/create 250 gender inclusive bathrooms just because.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385948]Universities don't renovate/create 250 gender inclusive bathrooms just because.[/QUOTE]
Nah they do it because the student body has requested it. I don't know why you care so much about where people poop.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51385964]Nah they do it because the student body has requested it. I don't know why you care so much about where people poop.[/QUOTE]
Really? There was a student vote and they all voted for it?
And to be fair we don't really know how those facilities came to be like that, they could have been woman's facilities beforehand and in that case they just needed a new sticker essentially. Or it could have been those solitary bathrooms that you can just walk into and be alone, which would have already counted and had been there forever. I'd wager that most of the 250 is the latter.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51385974]Really? There was a student vote and they all voted for it?[/QUOTE]
Protest is a valid form of democracy.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385978]And to be fair we don't really know how those facilities came to be like that, they could have been woman's facilities beforehand and in that case they just needed a new sticker essentially. Or it could have been those solitary bathrooms that you can just walk into and be alone, which would have already counted and had been there forever. I'd wager that most of the 250 is the latter.[/QUOTE]
250 sounds like a pretty high number. There may be a lot of solidary ones.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51385964]Nah they do it because the student body has requested it. I don't know why you care so much about where people poop.[/QUOTE]
Hence proving my point that it isn't just because. Although I think they got these restrooms by being noisy and protesting.
I only care cause I think the allocation of resources is completely inefficient.
Otherwise I couldn't care less if a mid-transition MTF took a Nagasaki-level shit in the stall next to me.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51385948]This is simply not true at all. I am not sure how you just divorced the idea that these restrooms were already going to be built anyways without the gender inclusive initiative, but your argument is simply untrue.
Universities don't renovate/create 250 gender inclusive bathrooms just because.[/QUOTE]
Because it says in the quote you posted it'll be converting restrooms which are already neutral (Replacing a sign) or just making sure the ones that are added in the future or already under renovations meet the standard. If you're going to be adding 250 bathrooms anyways, making them gender neutral doesn't change the cost.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51385979]Protest is a valid form of democracy.[/QUOTE]
So if a hand full of people protested to have concealed carry, would it still be "the student body" requesting it, or would it be "a group of students"?
You can't represent the entire student body without first getting the student body's position.
[QUOTE=plunger435;51385996]Because it says in the quote you posted it'll be converting restrooms which are already neutral (Replacing a sign) or just making sure the ones that are added in the future or already under renovations meet the standard. If you're going to be adding 250 bathrooms anyways, making them gender neutral doesn't change the cost.[/QUOTE]
But the point is that the original initiative for this requirement was for adapting to transgendered needs.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51386023]But the point is that the original initiative for this requirement was for adapting to transgendered needs.[/QUOTE]
Why shouldn't transgendered needs be addressed? Trans people have a lot of things that HAVE to be addressed. I agree that this may not be the best solution, but it still needs to be addressed.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51385997]So if a hand full of people protested to have concealed carry, would it still be "the student body" requesting it, or would it be "a group of students"?
You can't represent the entire student body without first getting the student body's position.[/QUOTE]
As long as the administration is receptive to the students they serve, I'm not sure why it matters
[QUOTE=Tudd;51386023]But the point is that the original initiative for this requirement was for adapting to transgendered needs.[/QUOTE]
Which they said they'd do by just changing single restrooms into gender neutral, which as we've already said is just a sign change.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51386040]As long as the administration is receptive to the students they serve, I'm not sure why it matters[/QUOTE]
Because you're implying that the entire student body had their say in this decision, and since they are ok with it, why should anyone have an argument against it. But is that really the case here or not?
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51386098]Because you're implying that the entire student body had their say in this decision, and since they are ok with it, why should anyone have an argument against it. But is that really the case here or not?[/QUOTE]
Most likely not I'd say.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51386098]Because you're implying that the entire student body had their say in this decision, and since they are ok with it, why should anyone have an argument against it. But is that really the case here or not?[/QUOTE]
I'll assume either most people support it or don't care one way or another until proven otherwise.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51385807]I agree. There will need to be gender neutral bathrooms. But not all of them should be gender neutral.
Just because some people in this thread think its not a big deal, 90% of western civilization does think it is.[/QUOTE]
Actually, according to the following poll from CBS, about 41% of Americans are generally in favor of gender neutral restroom facilities, compared to 46% opposed. The remaining are undecided. Your figure is highly exaggerated.
[Quote] While 46 percent of Americans think transgender people should use the bathrooms assigned to their birth gender, slightly fewer -- 41 percent -- think they should be able use the bathroom of the gender they identify as. Most Americans think guidelines outlining the bathroom policies for transgender children in school should be set by local and state governments, not by the federal government.[/quote]
Besides which, simply making all bathrooms gender neutral is a much simpler and more cost effective solution to this issue that mandating the construction of entirely new facilities. Logistically, it's the easiest fix
[editline]17th November 2016[/editline]
Furthermore, while transgendered people represent a very narrow slice of the community, they are not the obly people who would arguably benefit. Removing gendered bathrooms effectively doubles the availability of restroom facilities available to either sex, and/or lowers the costs of constructing restrooms in new buildings given the need to only have a single restroom rather than separated facilities
a CBS poll doesn't recognize the opinion of 100% of americans. It represents the opinion of a focus group who has A) heard about the poll in the first place and attended to it, and B)care to weigh in on the topic either way.
Just because people don't care enough to get involved in the debate doesn't mean they are for it.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51386289][B]a CBS poll doesn't recognize the opinion of 100% of americans.[/B] It represents the opinion of a focus group who has A) heard about the poll in the first place and attended to it, and B)care to weigh in on the topic either way.
Just because people don't care enough to get involved in the debate doesn't mean they are for it.[/QUOTE]
But you do?
[QUOTE=plunger435;51386342]But you do?[/QUOTE]
Well yes because I'm using common sense buddy. Ever heard of it?
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51386393]Well yes because I'm using common sense buddy. Ever heard of it?[/QUOTE]
Ooh damn you got him
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51386404]Ooh damn you got him[/QUOTE]
and another one without any common sense.
Was mean't for you as well!
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51386486]and another one without any common sense.
Was mean't for you as well![/QUOTE]
"I'm right"
"Why"
"Common sense"
Truly an intellectual of the ages.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51386494]"I'm right"
"Why"
"Common sense"
Truly an intellectual of the ages.[/QUOTE]
Just as intellectual as the "I'll assume X until someone proves me wrong" a couple posts up.
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