• Dan Rather: "These are not normal times."
    35 replies, posted
These are alternative times.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51718290]We are already on our to totalitarianism. Making things collapse quicker would make thing less awful. Think post Roman empire. Instead of one big system oppressing people on a large scale, it would make it smaller of various degrees through various locales. Wars would be smaller intensity between small regions instead of world wide scale and bigger intensity. Concerning resources, if todays society collapsed today, there would be some resources left for a recovery to some what our current technological level where if delayed would mean no chance of recovery. When a recovery happens, it will generate new ideas where now people are autopilot using ideas that don't fit for todays circumstances. Leaves the field wide open to trying new ways. In either case, it the future I'm afraid and its better to go with it them against it.[/QUOTE] The problem with accelerationism is - look at the Middle East. The United States decimated the infrastructure and government of two countries that had been relatively stable. Tell me, what rose from the ashes in the vacuum of power? What has always risen from the ashes where there is a huge power vacuum? When there's no establishment left, it's not a new beginning for freedom - no, it's a clarion call for the biggest assholes with the most guns to seize control. People who aren't afraid to kill anyone who disagrees with them. I think accelerationism is foolhardy because you're condemning people - especially vulnerable groups - to suffering, death, and a lack of livelihood. And nobody should sacrifice the lives of others without first making that sacrifice themselves.
[QUOTE=archangel125;51718345]The problem with accelerationism is - look at the Middle East. The United States decimated the infrastructure and government of two countries that had been relatively stable. Tell me, what rose from the ashes in the vacuum of power? What has always risen from the ashes where there is a huge power vacuum? When there's no establishment left, it's not a new beginning for freedom - no, it's a clarion call for the biggest assholes with the most guns to seize control. People who aren't afraid to kill anyone who disagrees with them. I think accelerationism is foolhardy because you're condemning people - especially vulnerable groups - to suffering, death, and a lack of livelihood. And nobody should sacrifice the lives of others without first making that sacrifice themselves.[/QUOTE] The middle east has its own set of problems and rules. America is different. You have to make the case society isn't in irreversible freefall concerning America at least and have to make the case the resources our high tech society are not being depleted faster then being replenished. Right now in America the great aquifier is being depleted. Once that gone that it. A collapse occurs either way. If a collapse happen now, might give the eviroment a break and the reservoir s a chance to refill. There are some other resources too if things keep up as they are now will lead to a collapse once depleted. Let's not forget the massive extinction event occurring right now. Its not a thing where some one wakes up and say "I wanna see the world collapse and have people suffer!". No its an acknowledgement of the current state of affairs. As noted in this thread and others, people on FP are coming to the same conclusion. Its called being black pilled. The best way to deal with the situation is build the world you want and forget about the current one. Like fallout the game. As sad it is to see the current world go, the good news you will have the freedom to build what you want as you see fit. Provided you prepare for the collapse. I also didn't see any one comment on my ideas to fix the divisions within society.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51717783]Accelerationism is the idea that America cannot be saved and is in irreversible decline. A collapse like Roman empire, soviet union or venuzeula. The only thing is draw out the process over long period of time or try to make the process faster so a new system can be built from the ashes. What system, I don't care. What we got is broken. Think burning down a house to collect insurance money to buy a new one vs trying to fix it up. [/QUOTE] Accelerationism is just the Oh Dearist agenda of "there's nothing to be done but lie down and cry" taken to the extreme. You're buying into what They want you to believe. Don't let them snuff out the light. We can hold out past the endless dark. All a fire needs is a single spark.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51718435]The middle east has its own set of problems and rules. America is different. You have to make the case society isn't in irreversible freefall concerning America at least and have to make the case the resources our high tech society are not being depleted faster then being replenished. Right now in America the great aquifier is being depleted. Once that gone that it. A collapse occurs either way. If a collapse happen now, might give the eviroment a break and the reservoir s a chance to refill. There are some other resources too if things keep up as they are now will lead to a collapse once depleted. Let's not forget the massive extinction event occurring right now. Its not a thing where some one wakes up and say "I wanna see the world collapse and have people suffer!". No its an acknowledgement of the current state of affairs. As noted in this thread and others, people on FP are coming to the same conclusion. Its called being black pilled. The best way to deal with the situation is build the world you want and forget about the current one. Like fallout the game. As sad it is to see the current world go, the good news you will have the freedom to build what you want as you see fit. Provided you prepare for the collapse. I also didn't see any one comment on my ideas to fix the divisions within society.[/QUOTE] America isn't different. What's different in American democracy? What exactly makes us less prone to corruption and authoritarianism and anti-democratic influences than any other regime? What mechanisms do we have in place that influence that? Name them. What's different? You're talking about get "[color]-pilled" and referencing Fallout as an example of why we need to let people die of curable diseases and let lives get ruined just to get a "fresh start" on the world. These aren't your ideas. You sound like an edgy thirteen-year-old kid thinking they've got the world solved. I know, I was that kid too. What will happen in social structures [I]truly[/I] collapse in the US isn't some new era with a new culture and a future golden age, it'll be illness, death, poverty, malnourished children, violence, more violence, state brutality, oppression, and hatred. You aren't encouraging social upheaval, you're encouraging social demolition. You're going balls-deep on ruining your own life, and the lives of others, because "stuff kinda sucks." If you think there's so much bad about America right now that it's worth willfully destroying the imperfect social structures that hold up our society, you need to be dragged by the throat to 1994 Rwanda, you need to go watch people get taken on death flights in helicopters in Argentina, you need to witness starvation and true poverty in East Africa, you need to quit being some edgy kid living off of his parents' money in the top 5% of the world posting on a computer that plenty of people will never be able to afford, in the comfort of your own home with clean water and air conditioning and internet and unlimited entertainment. I'm frustrated with the state of affairs in the US, too, but this kind of super-edgy accelerationism goes beyond pessimism and nihilism and into just trying to look cool by pretending to know what you're talking about. You can't just respond to "how do we solve this issue" by saying "burn it down the sun's gonna blow up anyways who cares" once you're past ninth grade. [editline]24th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Guriosity;51718290]We are already on our to totalitarianism. Making things collapse quicker would make thing less awful. Think post Roman empire. Instead of one big system oppressing people on a large scale, it would make it smaller of various degrees through various locales. Wars would be smaller intensity between small regions instead of world wide scale and bigger intensity. Concerning resources, if todays society collapsed today, there would be some resources left for a recovery to some what our current technological level where if delayed would mean no chance of recovery. When a recovery happens, it will generate new ideas where now people are autopilot using ideas that don't fit for todays circumstances. Leaves the field wide open to trying new ways. In either case, it the future I'm afraid and its better to go with it them against it.[/QUOTE] No, we're not on our way to totalitarianism, not even close. Making things collapse quicker would make things worse. The Roman empire's decline took centuries, and the average person could coast on through, maybe missing out on some of the prosperity of their ancestors, but still fine. Want examples of regimes that have collapsed quickly? Look at Syria right fucking now - rapid collapse marred with millions of deaths, people being decapitated, orphans buried in rubble next to their parents, drone strikes, artillery shelling homes. Look at the collapse of Yugoslavia, with mass rape, executions, mass civilian casualties, food shortages, snipers slaughtering everyone, cities being shelled for months at a time. There is zero positive to hastening the fall. You're saying that instead of precariously sliding down an icy hill, we should swan-dive off the top of the cliff. Quit this retarded doomsaying. Fallout isn't real life, kid. Get your head out of your ass and realize that you're prioritizing some totally unspecified ideal "future change," ignoring the mountain of historical evidence that shows that the total social collapse you're advocating for leads to death, suffering, oppression, violence, and a regression of ideology into authoritarianism, militarism, forceful control through violence - anything but "new ideas." I would prefer one big system "oppressing people on a large scale," which I assume you think of as trade deals taking people's jobs and cell phone data being monitored, to the constant civil warfare in West Africa and the warlords kidnapping children, drugging them, and forcing them to rape their own sisters and mothers before executing their family, feeding them amphetamines, and handing them a rifle to maintain territorial control. That's the "small scale" oppression you're talking about. I'd rather be in debt for the rest of my fucking life and have zero opportunity for socioeconomic advancement than live in a world where I have to worry about getting shot in the head and have my family raped and executed, like parts of Liberia between '85 and '03.
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