• "Fuck the police" - Cameron vows prisoners will not get the vote despite ECHR ruling
    91 replies, posted
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfslY_AvhLw[/media] Good, those filthy peasants were only going to vote against us. Victory is ours!
Some of those prisoners don't deserve rights because of what they took away from others. And I'm glad Cameron's grown some balls for only the second time in his career and made a landmark denial to the EU over them interfering in our lawmaking. And that's just my opinion, I'm not going to debate it.
Prisoners do not deserve the right to vote or have any say on what happens in the outside world. They're in prison to keep them away from society, at the very least people in for serious crimes such as murder and rape should be banned from voting.
[QUOTE=lifehole;38163701]Is this guy like the george bush/romney of britain? I am unfamiliar with foreign politics besides major wars etc, but I've heard a lot of shit about this guy.[/QUOTE] As an Aussie i can only say what I've heard from friends and social commentary but he is the equivalent of the republican leader. [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Chryseus;38163725]At the very least people in for serious crimes such as murder and rape should be banned from voting.[/QUOTE] I sort of agree with you on this, however the party in power can still affect them so they should still get a choice.
[QUOTE=lifehole;38163701]Is this guy like the george bush/romney of britain? I am unfamiliar with foreign politics besides major wars etc, but I've heard a lot of shit about this guy.[/QUOTE] He's a slimy idiot. Pretty much every choice he makes is wrong, and on the rare occasion he gets it in his head to do some good, he folds as soon as soon as some rich dumb fuckwit tells him to. At best he's a lackey, and, at times, he's even just flat-out detrimental to the nation's wellbeing. I would equate him to one of those US government asshats you always read about here in SH, making some dumb remark about how we need to tax the upper class less and stupid shit like that.
[QUOTE=Jon27;38163721]Some of those prisoners don't deserve rights because of what they took away from others. And I'm glad Cameron's grown some balls for only the second time in his career and made a landmark denial to the EU over them interfering in our lawmaking. And that's just my opinion, I'm not going to debate it.[/QUOTE] He wants to stop [i]all[/i] prisoners from voting though, that European court doesn't have a problem with us only stopping certain offenders from voting either, but barring people in for relatively minor things like drug possession from voting is just stupid.
I thought Britain wasn't even part of the EU?
fuck you david cameron, what are you even thinking
[QUOTE=Ridge;38163923]I thought Britain wasn't even part of the EU?[/QUOTE] Where did you gather that from? They're not part of the EURO.
the fact that people are rating this winner is concerning
[QUOTE=Jon27;38163721]Some of those prisoners don't deserve rights because of what they took away from others. And I'm glad Cameron's grown some balls for only the second time in his career and made a landmark denial to the EU over them interfering in our lawmaking. And that's just my opinion, I'm not going to debate it.[/QUOTE] Except that one, it's not the EU, and even if it was, Britain is still a part of it and should have the same expected of them as any other member state.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38163923]I thought Britain wasn't even part of the EU?[/QUOTE] It's a privileged member of the EU, but not a member of the EURO.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38162522]There isn't really any reason why prisoners should be not able to vote. They're still citizens, and they need encouragement to be members of society.[/QUOTE] I don't like the idea of having to campaign for the 'prison' vote.
[QUOTE=Jon27;38163721]Some of those prisoners don't deserve rights because of what they took away from others. And I'm glad Cameron's grown some balls for only the second time in his career and made a landmark denial to the EU over them interfering in our lawmaking. And that's just my opinion, I'm not going to debate it.[/QUOTE] This has nothing to do with the EU. The UK is signed up to a lot of international treaties and organisations on human rights. [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ownederd;38163937]the fact that people are rating this winner is concerning[/QUOTE] Welcome to Facepunch, where human rights are great expect in certain circumstances.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38164055]I don't like the idea of having to campaign for the 'prison' vote.[/QUOTE] If you don't want to represent the citizens of your country you shouldn't be in politics.
I was totally expecting this Cameron: [IMG]http://images.blastro.com/images/artist_images/med/med_camron_artist_photo1.jpg[/IMG]
Preventing prisoners from voting is simply saying 'we consider this group of people undesirable so they aren't allowed to vote.' That's missing the point of democracy so completely it boggles the mind.
Good. Prisoners shouldn't get to take part in the shaping of society seen as they have made it their job to shit on it.
[QUOTE=dunkace;38164424]Good. Prisoners shouldn't get to take part in the shaping of society seen as they have made it their job to shit on it.[/QUOTE] yeah we may as well restrict them from practicing academia and self-improvement in accordance to your nil and backwards views; can't make exceptions, buddy
[QUOTE=dunkace;38164424]Good. Prisoners shouldn't get to take part in the shaping of society seen as they have made it their job to shit on it.[/QUOTE] You know that nobody actually gets up in the morning and says "I want to stab someone in the face/steal all their worldy possessions/do something really really bad", right? Nobody "made it their job" to commit crime, it's just a matter of circumstance and consequence.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38162522]There isn't really any reason why prisoners should be not able to vote. They're still citizens, and they need encouragement to be members of society.[/QUOTE] Hell, prisoners have more reason than most to vote. If they don't think what they did was wrong, they can vote for candidates that agree with them. It is ridiculous to deny them the right.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38164055]I don't like the idea of having to campaign for the 'prison' vote.[/QUOTE] If you don't like the idea of campaigning for the 'prison' vote, maybe you shouldn't be locking so many people up anyways.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38164055]I don't like the idea of having to campaign for the 'prison' vote.[/QUOTE] I do. Prisons need less people and better conditions. This is in the interest of prisoners and is the right thing to do. The prison vote could very well be a significant step towards fixing parts of our justice system. I mean seriously. We have private prisons. How does this not set off all sorts of warning bells in your head? [B]FOR-PROFIT PRISONS. [/B]
[QUOTE=dunkace;38164424]Good. Prisoners shouldn't get to take part in the shaping of society seen as they have made it their job to shit on it.[/QUOTE] crimnals are bad they want to wreck our socity why do criminals do bad things i think every1 should be kind and nice to each other by dunkace age 6
Whenever I read about UK politics, the politicians are walking all over the populace. Do people in the UK still think they are peasants or something? Does nobody stand up for themselves?
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38164762]Whenever I read about UK politics, the politicians are walking all over the populace. Do people in the UK still think they are peasants or something? Does nobody stand up for themselves?[/QUOTE] 90% of this shit you hear about doesn't get passed, same with the American laws we hear about in the news.
[QUOTE=Lolx0rz;38162576]Because maybe some of them regret their crimes?[/QUOTE] So, by that logic, shouldn't we release every prisoner who just says "sorry"? [QUOTE=Lolx0rz;38162576]Because the purpose of a prison is to [b]punish[/b] and then re-integrate into society those who break the law?[/QUOTE] Yes, and this is part of the punishment process. [QUOTE=Lolx0rz;38162576]Because the Britain is a DEMOCRACY where EVERY CITIZEN is supposed to be allowed to vote.[/QUOTE] That is a flawed argument since EVERY CITIZEN also has the right to freedom - yet I see no-one calling for all the UK prisons to close. That's the whole basis of the punishment system - some of their rights are taken away. [QUOTE=Lolx0rz;38162576]Last time I checked, prisoners were still citizens.[/QUOTE] So are children - yet they can't vote. If voting is such a vital part of one's human rights, why can't children/teenagers vote?
[QUOTE=David29;38164897]So, by that logic, shouldn't we release every prisoner who just says "sorry"?[/QUOTE] If just saying "sorry" was a measure of genuine regret and understanding, then yes. But it isn't, so we'll just have to cope with psychiatric evaluations. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]Yes, and this is part of the punishment process.[/QUOTE] Is punishment really all that necessary? Does it actually help anyone? Will it make our prisoners reconsider their lives and those of all the people they may have hurt? I somehow doubt it. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]That is a flawed argument since EVERY CITIZEN also has the right to freedom - yet I see no-one calling for all the UK prisons to close. That's the whole basis of the punishment system - some of their rights are taken away.[/QUOTE] But we shouldn't take away any more rights than we need to. Locking them up is a necessary thing - we can't let them out before they totally understand why they were put in in the first place. We simply can't be removing rights when it's patently unnecessary. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]So are children - yet they can't vote. If voting is such a vital part of one's human rights, why can't children/teenagers vote?[/QUOTE] The mentally handicapped can vote because they have potential to learn, and prisoners are regular people just like you or me who can think about a problem and apply solutions to it. Children are the exception to this rule because the vast majority of them wouldn't understand (or particular care for) the issues they would be presented with. No child wants to spend their summer pondering over the opposition's economic policies or moral standing.
[QUOTE=David29;38164897] Yes, and this is part of the punishment process. [/QUOTE] To strip someone of their very humanity is not punishment, it is domestication.
[QUOTE=David29;38164897]So, by that logic, shouldn't we release every prisoner who just says "sorry"?[/QUOTE] Lol what. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]Yes, and this is part of the punishment process.[/QUOTE] People in prison are the only people who know what being in prison is like. If you take away their right to vote for their preferences in prison reform, you're ignoring the most experienced people - those that regret their crime but feel prison isn't working for them. We can't allow people to be not given a right to choose their future. That's what voting is. An opinion on their future. If they're allowed to have an opinion on their future they might take an interest in it. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]That is a flawed argument since EVERY CITIZEN also has the right to freedom - yet I see no-one calling for all the UK prisons to close. That's the whole basis of the punishment system - some of their rights are taken away.[/QUOTE] Highlight [B]some[/B]. Their freedom is taken away because they abused their freedom to the detriment of others (I.e, stole, murdered). We don't take away their right to read or have an opinion or political belief because they [B]read/opinionated/politic'd their victims to death.[/B] We can't lump prisoners together into some murdering band of thugs and thieves. Especially as we're now putting people in prison for telling mean jokes on Facebook, petty drug offenses, etc. That's a bad precedent. They can't do anything that'd damage the country with their vote because they're still a small number - and future prisoners might benefit from their views. [QUOTE=David29;38164897]So are children - yet they can't vote. If voting is such a vital part of one's human rights, why can't children/teenagers vote?[/QUOTE] Are you trying really hard to be a complete cunt to people or something? I don't think it's because you're stupid, but come on, man. Nobody will take your side seriously if you sprout this bullshit.
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