"Fuck the police" - Cameron vows prisoners will not get the vote despite ECHR ruling
91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38164762]Whenever I read about UK politics, the politicians are walking all over the populace.
Do people in the UK still think they are peasants or something? Does nobody stand up for themselves?[/QUOTE]
Standing up for yourself is illegal.
[QUOTE=David29;38164897]
Yes, and this is part of the punishment process.[/QUOTE]
So I take it you don't believe in prisons being to reform criminals?
Question: Do people who have life in prison still have the vote?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38165045]To strip someone of their very humanity is not punishment, it is domestication.[/QUOTE]
Personally, in regards to that, I considered locking someone up more of issue than taking away the right to vote.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;38165162]So I take it you don't believe in prisons being to reform criminals?[/QUOTE]
I never actually said that.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;38165066]Are you trying really hard to be a complete cunt to people or something? I don't think it's because you're stupid, but come on, man. Nobody will take your side seriously if you sprout this bullshit.[/QUOTE]
No. I was merely raising the issue that an argument that aims to provide something for everyone (regardless of their circumstances) seems a bit hollow when it suddenly ignores a group of people.
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;38165177]Question: Do people who have life in prison still have the vote?[/QUOTE]
Theoretically they should.
the pleb needs a shank
If those in high security prisons have limited contact with the outside how can they make an informed decision?
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;38165177]Question: Do people who have life in prison still have the vote?[/QUOTE]
In the US, felons cannot vote.
[QUOTE=Arsonist;38165395]If those in high security prisons have limited contact with the outside how can they make an informed decision?[/QUOTE]
They do still have TV and newspapers in there.
I'm actually really surprised about the stance people in here have taken.
Why should a criminal have the right to vote in council elections or general elections? They have been taken out of society to protect society and to help themselves. They should not be part of the decision making of a society they have wronged. They have to wait until they are allowed back into society where they can then voice their concerns on what could be changed in the prison system. Just letting prisoners vote will mean that most will simply vote for whoever offers them the best way of getting out in the shortest time. I don't want that.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38165630]I'm actually really surprised about the stance people in here have taken.
Why should a criminal have the right to vote in council elections or general elections? They have been taken out of society to protect society and to help themselves. They should not be part of the decision making of a society they have wronged. They have to wait until they are allowed back into society where they can then voice their concerns on what could be changed in the prison system. Just letting prisoners vote will mean that most will simply vote for whoever offers them the best way of getting out in the shortest time. I don't want that.[/QUOTE]
Tell me:
1) What candidate who actually has a chance of winning wants prisoners to have an easier time, or get out faster?
2) Are child rapists the same as petty drug offenders? Are serial arsonists the same as petty thieves?
3) Since the prison population is incredibly small compared to the larger population, what actual impact would an extra 88,000 votes have in national elections and referendums? (Which statistically 40-50% wouldn't vote anyway, ala the general population)
4) Is it worth having to argue and bicker and potentially pay compensation/force legal challenges for the sake of the voting rights of 40,000 people?
I find it ridiculous that this is even an issue. There is nothing bad that could happen if prisoners were allowed to vote. They're not exactly asking to form a Union here, or demand free hot springs. They want a democratic right as citizens (Which they still are)
imo this is just a conservative nanny state idea that is basing things on morals.
lol @ all the americans here acting all shocked when their government constantly denies people of the most significant human right of them all- the right to life
As someone who lives in a nation where prisoners have the right to vote, let me tell you that...
Nothing changes. Things are basically the same as they were before.
Hell, our current PM claimed he would revoke the prisoner's right to vote if he ever became PM, but he never did.
All this "campaigning for the prison vote" and "prisoners voting for politicians who will release them" is nothing but scare tactics. Unless your prison populations are hilariously large, there aren't enough prisoners to make any noticeable difference.
[QUOTE=Ridge;38165584]In the US, felons cannot vote.[/QUOTE]
and there's nothing wrong with this, why?
fuck this shit im going to the moon
aint no moon cameron there
[QUOTE=Ownederd;38163937]the fact that people are rating this winner is concerning[/QUOTE]
"B-but mah empire!!!1 fak da eu"
Prisoners just shouldn't get the vote. They fucked the society by committing a crime, they are put into prison to be rehabilitated and punished. They don't deserve it until they can prove otherwise.
You guys really are getting too pissy about this.
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;38168733]Prisoners just shouldn't get the vote. They fucked the society by committing a crime, they are put into prison to be rehabilitated and punished. They don't deserve it until they can prove otherwise.
You guys really are getting too pissy about this.[/QUOTE]
Yes they should.
In the USA, felons can't vote. How does what we have differ from the UK?
Just re-read some previous posts. You do realise this is for prisoners IN PRISON, right?
The punishment involves them being removed from the system.
It's pretty self-explanatory.
[QUOTE=Memobot;38170341]Just re-read some previous posts. You do realise this is for prisoners IN PRISON, right?
The punishment involves them being removed from the system.
It's pretty self-explanatory.[/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure people are allowed to express their political opinions on matters regardless of their legal situation
[QUOTE=Memobot;38170341]Just re-read some previous posts. You do realise this is for prisoners IN PRISON, right?[/QUOTE]
Really? Thats what we were debating all along? About prisoners.. IN PRISON? Oh man, I completely change all my views now you've given us this breaking information.
Thanks so much for your help.
[QUOTE=Memobot;38162555]I don't want prisoners to get the vote. They're prisoners. They clearly don't think the rules apply to them, so why should they get a right to vote?[/QUOTE]
smoke weed and get caught? no democracy for you!
Prisoners still deserve the vote, they still live in this country, maybe when they get out of prison they want to have the person they want to vote for in power
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38172929]smoke weed and get caught? no democracy for you![/QUOTE]
Stop arresting people for shitty reasons then, what's giving them the vote got to do with it?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38172929]smoke weed and get caught? no democracy for you![/QUOTE]
They should know well enough not to do it in the first place then.
Seriously, if you go to jail at all for a crime you committed, you are an idiot and you deserve everything you get.
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;38178508]They should know well enough not to do it in the first place then.
Seriously, if you go to jail at all for a crime you committed, you are an idiot and you deserve everything you get.[/QUOTE]
Because all crimes are premeditated and plotted to an extreme, you heard it here first, guys!
Or maybe a large portion of crimes are comitted by people who are massively disadvantaged and are unable to find a job?
Ability without opportunity is nothing.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38165630]I'm actually really surprised about the stance people in here have taken.
Why should a criminal have the right to vote in council elections or general elections? They have been taken out of society to protect society and to help themselves. They should not be part of the decision making of a society they have wronged. They have to wait until they are allowed back into society where they can then voice their concerns on what could be changed in the prison system. Just letting prisoners vote will mean that most will simply vote for whoever offers them the best way of getting out in the shortest time. I don't want that.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Why should a criminal have the right to vote in council elections or general elections? [/quote]
That's not the question though. The question is why shouldn't they? The right to vote is a fundamental human right, so the burden is on those opposed to it to justify taking that right away. Someone being is prison doesn't give anyone else the right to start stripping them of whatever rights they want to.
Besides the prison population is hardly big enough to swing elections on a large scale.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38172929]smoke weed and get caught? no democracy for you![/QUOTE]
Implying that you would get sent to prison for smoking weed.
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;38178508]They should know well enough not to do it in the first place then.
Seriously, if you go to jail at all for a crime you committed, you are an idiot and you deserve everything you get.[/QUOTE]
Crimes aren't always premeditated. For instance, murder is often done in moments of extreme passion, and are committed not by insane chessmasters playing a dangerous game of cat and mouse, but by regular, scared people who just got angrier than they should have. These people are not going to harm the democratic process in any way, so is it really necessary to go that one step further just on a principle that's arguably immoral?
As if that's not enough, lots of people turn to drugs to escape from their situation. In this case, taking away their right to vote is just gonna make the situation worse for all involved. Again, are you really willing to hurt your citizens based on a principle that not everyone holds?
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