• Karzai wants 'at least $2 billion' a year from US
    55 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35615530]After WWI a western-imposed democracy ruled Germany. Then Hitler happened. It worked out in the end though, so I don't really get his example.[/QUOTE] 1) Germany [I]is[/I] "western" 2) It was not "imposed", it was self built
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35615530]After WWI a western-imposed democracy ruled Germany. Then Hitler happened. It worked out in the end though, so I don't really get his example.[/QUOTE] Hitler didn't happen because democracy was "imposed" on Germany. It happened because German people felt they got screwed over after the war and Hitler promised to right all the wrongs.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35615556]1) Germany [I]is[/I] "western"[/QUOTE] Aye, now it is. But then, it was a central power. [quote]2) It was not "imposed", it was self built[/quote] Yeah I dunno why I said that. Oops.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35615676]Aye, now it is. But then, it was a central power. [/QUOTE] The only non-western Central Power of them was the Ottoman Empire. [I]Maybe[/I] Bulgaria too if you argue a certain way. But Germany was most definitely considered western.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35615725]The only non-western Central Power of them was the Ottoman Empire. [I]Maybe[/I] Bulgaria too if you argue a certain way. But Germany was most definitely considered western.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe#Before_World_War_I[/url] But you know, whatever.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35615757][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe#Before_World_War_I[/url] But you know, whatever.[/QUOTE] I thought we were speaking on terms of civilization and culture, not physical geography. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Civilizations_map.png[/img]
if karzai would have been saying something like "according to our finance ministry, we need 2 bill.. to support the steady growth and rebuilding of infrastructure etc" it would have sounded much less insane and greedy karzai doesnt really have any achievements to back up since 2001
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35613272]To be honest, it was a bombed out hell-hole before Americans got there. It's been like that for centuries, not even just the past few decades. They don't call it the "graveyard of empires" for nothing.[/QUOTE] The Afghans were actually doing pretty well until the Soviets moved in iirc. Either way, that's similar to saying "Hey man, I'm sorry I broke your tv and all but your house was [I]pretty [/I]messy when I got there. No worries, right?"
[QUOTE=Ryder1337;35617097]The Afghans were actually doing pretty well until the Soviets moved in iirc. Either way, that's similar to saying "Hey man, I'm sorry I broke your tv and all but your house was [I]pretty [/I]messy when I got there. No worries, right?"[/QUOTE] But we bought the TV in the first place.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;35613574]Here's how to fix the aid problem: [b]Don't give any money to people who don't like us[/b][/QUOTE] So basically never give out money.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35613922]You mean the single country holding the EU afloat?[/QUOTE] Yeah man, totally. Denmark, Sweden, France, the Benelux, all the rest are just worthless. i mean who even needs poland or spain?? [editline]17th April 2012[/editline] Additionally, the claim that Afghanistan is just some irredeemable war zone is a bit disingenuous. From 1933 to 1973, during the reign of Zahir Shah and the governance of various prime ministers, modernization took place across the country, with living conditions in Southwestern Afghanistan improving significantly, and there was also a push within the government for the emancipation of women. There were certainly issues of corruption and the suppression of dissidents, but hardly the black hole of torment and suffering some make it out to be.
Go suck a dick you Kleptocratic shitbag. With the amount of corruption by both NATO and the Afghans it's no wonder the country is still in the shitter. How about we maintain Drone strikes and CIA operatives with briefcases of cash, can't steal them can you? Isn't Karzai supposed to step down by 2014 anyway? Surely he'll still be in a position to steal millions while simultaneously trying to suck the Taliban's cock, maybe that's why he wants a guarantee so he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35613183]I agree with the principle of your statement, but not quite the execution of stating it.[/QUOTE] facepunch cares way too much about the delivery/appearances rather than the actual ideas.
First thing I thought of: [video=youtube;cKKHSAE1gIs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs[/video]
Why can't we fix America's problems instead of helping backwards countries like these? Yes, it sucks that innocents get killed from extremists, but we have many problems at home. maybe help them when we fix all of our problems, but no that's too much work.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;35622405]Why can't we fix America's problems instead of helping backwards countries like these? Yes, it sucks that innocents get killed from extremists, but we have many problems at home. maybe help them when we fix all of our problems, but no that's too much work.[/QUOTE] I don't really like Ron Paul's foreign policy, but it WOULD be an interesting experiment to make the US completely isolationist, even for like a year. No foreign aid, no military support, no bases around the globe. Just pack our shit and go home. Let the world see just how much it relies on the US. But it couldn't happen. Just about everything that isn't food, Americans buy from overseas.
"To help others you first need to help your self".
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35613272]To be honest, it was a bombed out hell-hole before Americans got there. It's been like that for centuries, not even just the past few decades. They don't call it the "graveyard of empires" for nothing.[/QUOTE] Well, in its brief period of genuine independence it wasn't as chaotic as it was now. Poverty stricken, but not violent in the way it is now. I'm speaking of the period form say, the mid 1930s to about the late 1970s. Even then, not being necessarily 'Communist', they had reasonably warm relations with the Soviet Union and the rest of its neighbors. The US government had a significant hand in exacerbating the civil conflict between the communist PDPA government after the 1979 coup and tribal elements, and that became markedly pronounced once the Soviet Union intervened in the region. It's not as if the US can clean its hands of what happened in Afghanistan before then. There was something I read in Zoya's Story, regarding a woman who was a member of a feminist group there who recounting something from an elder said "Rid of these seven donkeys and give us back our cow", the donkeys referring to the Mujaheddin warlords and the cow being the Najibullah government. Lot of what Afghanistan is going through now can be partially attributed to the active interference of world powers in its internal conflicts that escalated it far beyond what it could have been and creating a vacuum where this kind of violence can persist.
What the fuck, why not give out 2 billion in scholarships to American students and actually help something. Throwing money in a toilet and flushing it isn't helping anyone.
Karzai pleases his country more than ours. Of course we entered their country but he doesn't have to be a dick.
[QUOTE=RopaDope;35625786]What the fuck, why not give out 2 billion in scholarships to American students and actually help something. Throwing money in a toilet and flushing it isn't helping anyone.[/QUOTE] And that drove the cost of college up for EVERYONE.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;35613311]The tiny percent of money that the US sends as foreign aid goes a long way in stabilizing local regions and making smaller countries self-sufficient. 2bn in Afganistan is a pretty small price to pay for a more relaxed middle east that can deal with it's own problems for the next few years, rather than the US having to support another Libya/Kosovo, etc. What happens if you pump 2bn into the US economy? It might pay the rent for a few 100 charities for a year or two, or get the homeless off the streets for a year, or pay for medical insurance for a few months, but thats it. There's no point in squeezing every last penny out of the US budget when you need serious economic change to alter any of the USA's local problems.[/QUOTE] by your logic we shouldn't try anything to fix the state we are in unless it drastically improves in a single blow. 2bn to inner city schools can provide for a better education for those kids, they are the future aren't they. The Homeless and charities you shrugged off as unimportant DO need our money. 2bn can also go into our failing industry for engineering, or it can even be SAVED for something else I'm not saying don't help other countries but don't help other countries like Israel or Pakistan that use that money for war and that doesn't benefit us or their life quality.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35626073]And that drove the cost of college up for EVERYONE.[/QUOTE] Unless universities are run by greedy bastards, I don't think that would happen.
[QUOTE=RopaDope;35627267]Unless universities are run by greedy bastards, I don't think that would happen.[/QUOTE] Do you know why college costs keep going up? Because the government keeps offering more money to students to go. Colleges know that they can then charge more because the students are getting more.
I wonder if this will be something again like when the Russians were invading, maybe he has some connection and the money will just finance the criminals of the country.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35613109]I do, the whole place is fucked up, but we should stop dealing with other countries' problems and fix our shit up before dealing with them.[/QUOTE] You could have done that first before going into Afghanistan. And I don't support that "gib gorillion dollars", but rather than fund their rebuilding of infrastructure, and creating jobs there. [editline]19th April 2012[/editline] I find it hilarious how people here think their country don't have to be responsible for anything even how their country went there in the first place. Pull your heads from your asses for christ sake.
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