PS3 CPU Exploit found: "I'll Fight to the Last minute of my Life" "Sony Can go to hell"
168 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;28513941]Why do you constantly attempt to insult my intelligence? Seems like you can't discuss without it.
Thus showing how competent you really are.
I can't really respond without sinking down to your level and besides, then the wheel would just turn around again with you calling me an idiot and blah blah. I will stand by my opinion and you can stick to yours.[/QUOTE]
I insulted the intelligence of your argument, not you. I never once called you an idiot. [i]You're being defensive[/i] and that isn't from that parody thread. You really are being defensive in order to avoid arguing.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28513959]There's a difference between calling someone a fool and presenting valid counter-arguments.[/quote]
And the difference can be clearly seen in my posts since it's all in there.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28513959]Because being able to run Linux on your PS3 was so damn essential to the thing.
Their software, they can remove said feature. Besides, they're not advertising it anymore, are they?[/QUOTE]
What does it matter that they aren't advertising it anymore? They're not breaking consumer protection laws in regards to new customers but what makes the old customers not matter?
[QUOTE=DELL;28514049]
Look at what Nintendo is doing with the 3DS they are going to disable the thing if you pirate and or use homebrew. Do you think its far they can disable something you paid for? Do you think you should just let the big company's own everything and you own nothing?[/QUOTE]
You're telling me disabling your 3DS because you pirated a game is a bad thing?
And so what if you can't run homebrew? Just because you want something doesn't automatically mean you should be allowed to have it. I can scream about wanting a nuclear warhead big enough to wipe the USA off the face of the earth but that doesn't mean I should be allowed to have it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28514118]
What does it matter that they aren't advertising it anymore? [/QUOTE]
The fact that you specifically mentioned OtherOS being an advertised feature.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514122]I can scream about wanting a nuclear warhead big enough to wipe the USA off the face of the earth but that doesn't mean I should be allowed to have it.[/QUOTE]
And you wonder why I occasionally insult the intelligence of the people I argue with
If you're comparing homebrew to nuclear warheads you deserve much worse than being called a fool
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28514146]And you wonder why I occasionally insult the intelligence of the people I argue with
If you're comparing homebrew to nuclear warheads you deserve much worse than being called a fool[/QUOTE]
Just leave it already. That's what I did and I am being defensive because I do not want to argue more. Let's all stay friends here.
Perhaps they did break the consumer protection laws and whatnot. Sure, that is wrong, I'll give you that. But I am just not generally fond of hacking. But that's my opinion.
Besides, what can we do to change Sony's mind? This surely won't help.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28514146]And you wonder why I occasionally insult the intelligence of the people I argue with
If you're comparing homebrew to nuclear warheads you deserve much worse than being called a fool[/QUOTE]
And yet you support someone who considers hacking a console not only a right of the people (oh jeez) but also thinks it's worthy enough to fight till his death for it.
Whatever, this isn't getting anywhere. Perhaps it's better to just drop the arguments.
But for a group of people who are aiming to make consoles more open (which is a nice goal, if completely not interesting for me), forcing your way in and spitting in the face of hardware producers seems like a rather stupid M.O.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514122]The fact that you specifically mentioned OtherOS being an advertised feature.[/QUOTE]
It was advertised for millions of consumers who bought it before they stopped advertising that feature.
If a car is stated to get 60mpg, and does, until they push out a mandatory software update (you can refuse the update but it won't be able to leave your driveway anymore) for the engine's computer that reduces it to 45mpg, don't you think the first wave of customers deserve some kind of compensation? If that compensation isn't offered, don't you think they reserve the right to crack open that software update and make it so you can get that 60mpg again while still being able to drive your car?
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;28514223]But I am just not generally fond of hacking. But that's my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think you really understand what hacking is, the media uses it to describe malicious acts but that's wrong. Hacking, most often, refers to homebrew and bypassing artificial restrictions in your own system. Those guys that got the Kinect working on the PC were "hackers", and look how Microsoft embraced them. That's how Sony should have acted.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28514381]It was advertised for millions of consumers who bought it before they stopped advertising that feature.
If a car is stated to get 60mpg, and does, until they push out a mandatory software update (you can refuse the update but it won't be able to leave your driveway anymore) for the engine's computer that reduces it to 45mpg, don't you think the first wave of customers deserve some kind of compensation?[/quote]
The only part of that which doesn't sound right is the driveway part. In the PS3's case, you could still play games on it and blu-ray discs on it (its main purpose).
But bear in mind that Sony removed OtherOS because it Geohot's work with it posed a security risk to the console. Whether or not said risk was big enough to remove it is entirely up to your opinion.
[quote]I don't think you really understand what hacking is, the media uses it to describe malicious acts but that's wrong. Hacking, most often, refers to homebrew and bypassing artificial restrictions in your own system. Those guys that got the Kinect working on the PC were "hackers", and look how Microsoft embraced them. That's how Sony should have acted.[/QUOTE]
The Kinect hackers came up with new and interesting applications for Kinect (Playing Street Fighter, converting pictures to Minecraft statues, playing FPS games). What did the PS3 hackers do? They say they can sign any code to run legitimately on the PS3 (which gives a massive boost for piracy) and they can ban or unban any console they feel like, with the possibility of performing a global PS3 ban.
I'm not saying the PS3 hackers are evil but the stuff they came with isn't exactly benificial to the console.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514507]The only part of that which doesn't sound right is the driveway part. In the PS3's case, you could still play games on it and blu-ray discs on it (its main purpose).[/quote]
Games are beginning to require 3.56 now.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514507]But bear in mind that Sony removed OtherOS because it Geohot's work with it posed a security risk to the console. Whether or not said risk was big enough to remove it is entirely up to your opinion.[/quote]
Removing it posed the largest security risk of all - it angered hackers.
It's computing 101 that you never do that. As the one guy said, Linux is inevitable.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514507]What did the PS3 hackers do? They say they can sign any code to run legitimately on the PS3 (which gives a massive boost for piracy) and they can ban or unban any console they feel like, with the possibility of performing a global PS3 ban.[/quote]
Piracy is always a side effect of homebrew. It's unfortunate, but it happens. It wasn't Failoverflow or Geohot that allowed piracy though, their immediate work didn't allow piracy. As for the "ban en masse" thing, that never happened and I don't think anyone ever attempted to demonstrate it as Sony could easily reverse the damage in a matter of hours. You really can't use that as a "con" for hacking.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514507]I'm not saying the PS3 hackers are evil but the stuff they came with isn't exactly benificial to the console.[/QUOTE]
The side effects of their stuff could be detrimental for the console but the original hackers just wanted Linux back. A fair and noble request.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28514692]Games are beginning to require 3.56 now.[/quote]
And I spoke in the past tense. On that subject, why exactly are some games requiring the latest firmware now?
[quote]Removing it posed the largest security risk of all - it angered hackers.
It's computing 101 that you never do that. As the one guy said, Linux is inevitable.[/quote]
It seems that computers/consoles are the only place where trying to improve security (be it by good or bad means) will make people angry.
And in what way was Linux inevitable, exactly?
[quote]As for the "ban en masse" thing, that never happened and I don't think anyone ever attempted to demonstrate it as Sony could easily reverse the damage in a matter of hours. You really can't use that as a "con" for hacking.[/quote]
The mean part of me wants to say that they got some sense, but the slightly more sane part of me says they realized that they would get everyone on Sony's side which wouldn't exactly improve their cause or that of any hackers, PS3 or no.
And threats, legitimate or not, still count as a con to me. You're displaying the ability to do something like it, you're essentially saying 'hey everyone, I have the means to be a massive asshole to everyone who owns this thing'.
[quote]The side effects of their stuff could be detrimental for the console but the original hackers just wanted Linux back. A fair and noble request.[/QUOTE]
I'm no big fan of Linux but I definitely agree on that. The problem the hackers made were the means with which they planned to get Linux back, i.e. forcibly.
And say whatever you want, taking something back by force rather than appealing for a return doesn't exactly make for sympathy.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]And I spoke in the past tense. On that subject, why exactly are some games requiring the latest firmware now?[/quote]
Sony wants to make it so people [b]have[/b] to pirate new games if they want to play them without updating I guess. I don't really know, they never were very smart in this regard. They did it on the PSP as well and wondered why the people running custom firmware didn't buy their new games. You could find pirated PSP ISOs that bypassed the firmware check faster than you could update the damn system.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]It seems that computers/consoles are the only place where trying to improve security (be it by good or bad means) will make people angry.[/quote]
Improving security itself isn't good or bad, what the security is used for is the problem. For example, improving security to keep the user's personal details private is great, improving it to restrict what the user can do with their system is horrible and people will fight back against it.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]And in what way was Linux inevitable, exactly?[/quote]
As the guy explained in the press conference, if your device can run Linux you either let people do it or they'll find a way to do it on their own.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]The mean part of me wants to say that they got some sense, but the slightly more sane part of me says they realized that they would get everyone on Sony's side which wouldn't exactly improve their cause or that of any hackers, PS3 or no.
And threats, legitimate or not, still count as a con to me. You're displaying the ability to do something like it, you're essentially saying 'hey everyone, I have the means to be a massive asshole to everyone who owns this thing'.[/quote]
Well you can't just play the "what if" game all day. Every single mundane object in your house can be used to kill someone but it would be retardedly knee-jerk to try to ban them all because of it. Roads can be used for drug trafficking, the trunk in your car can hide a body, the list goes on. Custom firmware on the PS3 can allow piracy but it can also allow millions of amateur and professional coders alike to take a crack at using a powerful system for all kinds of neat things. (Like how the Air Force used it)
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]I'm no big fan of Linux[/quote]
Uh, what? Do you mean you just don't like the OS itself or do you have some kind of problem with the entire open source philosophy?
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28514856]The problem the hackers made were the means with which they planned to get Linux back, i.e. forcibly.
And say whatever you want, taking something back by force rather than appealing for a return doesn't exactly make for sympathy.[/QUOTE]
People did appeal for a return. Class action lawsuits were filed (and are ongoing) and the backlash on the internet after the feature was removed was tremendous. Sony was obviously not going to budge. And "forcibly" is kind of a silly word you use, you make it sound like they took Sony employees hostage or something.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28515046]
Uh, what? Do you mean you just don't like the OS itself or do you have some kind of problem with the entire open source philosophy?[/quote]
The OS. I've tried to use it but I just couldn't get my head around it. I probably lack the patience for it.
Oh please, perish the last option! I'm amazed at people's attempts at a fully open-source OS, it's probably the best advocate out there, along with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.
[quote]People did appeal for a return. Class action lawsuits were filed (and are ongoing) and the backlash on the internet after the feature was removed was tremendous. Sony was obviously not going to budge. And "forcibly" is kind of a silly word you use, you make it sound like they took Sony employees hostage or something.[/QUOTE]
I think the key word here may or may not be 'ongoing'. If there still are lawsuits in progress (like you say), that would be even worse. That would mean they're not even waiting for the outcome and just flat out shout 'fuck it, let's crack the shit out of that console to get my precious linux back', again not helping them.
And forgive me if that last remark sounds a little condescending but the sheer passion with which PS3 hackers are doing this is just causing me to think like that.
You know what I mean by 'forcibly', they're just hacking their way into the very core of the system to get back a feature that was already severely cut down (supposedly, from what I've heard from others who used OtherOS) compared to its PC counterpart.
[QUOTE=PariahKing;28495693][url=http://www.ps3-hacks.com/2011/03/07/where-is-the-ps3-cpu-exploit/]This[/url] is (apparently?) old news and most seem to say it probably won't lead to anything.
According some hacker guy on Twitter, Math:
"muhahahahaha this is just the cell reset line trick, you can use this to dump lv2 from 1.10 to 3.15 but that's it.
"Oh! and it's been known for ages by about....err... everyone...
"The fact is you can't glitch the cell to even access the isolated LS because it's PHYSICALLY disconnected from the bus.
"As in the cell was especially designed for the purpose of preventing access to the isolated LS by anything but the isolated process. You can read details about this here: The Cell Broadband Engine processor security architecture"[/QUOTE]
"fucking everyone knew about this already hahahha"
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515228]
I think the key word here may or may not be 'ongoing'. If there still are lawsuits in progress (like you say), that would be even worse. That would mean they're not even waiting for the outcome and just flat out shout 'fuck it, let's crack the shit out of that console to get my precious linux back', again not helping them.
And forgive me if that last remark sounds a little condescending but the sheer passion with which PS3 hackers are doing this is just causing me to think like that.[/quote]
Well if Sony loses the class action suit they can't be forced to put Linux support back, they can only be forced to send some money to everyone who bought a PS3 before Linux support was removed. And hackers are always passionate, why else would they devote so much time to something that doesn't provide them with income? (Usually)
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515228]You know what I mean by 'forcibly', they're just hacking their way into the very core of the system to get back a feature that was already severely cut down (supposedly, from what I've heard from others who used OtherOS) compared to its PC counterpart.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't cut down, it was removed entirely. Originally you could install Linux on the PS3 easily, after the update the support for running a second operating system was removed. The reason they removed it is because access to the GPU wasn't allowed from within Linux and people were getting closer to bypassing that restriction, from what I hear. Once Linux was removed people thought "hey, instead of trying to crack open OtherOS let's just crack open GameOS instead!".
Don't wall off the sandbox if you don't want kids digging in the grass.
[quote]i know by releasing this exploit ill probably be taken to court or sued but sony they can go to hell all i care for what there doing to us hackers ill fight until the last min i got of my life if i have to for the right of the people[/quote] :patriot: A true hero.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28515404]Well if Sony loses the class action suit they can't be forced to put Linux support back, they can only be forced to send some money to everyone who bought a PS3 before Linux support was removed. And hackers are always passionate, why else would they devote so much time to something that provide them with income? (Usually)[/quote]
Somehow I doubt that people like this Darkhacker and Geohot make a living off of finding random hardware exploits. They'd be quite poor otherwise.
Besides that, judging by his grammar, Darkhacker sounds like he's not even midway through his teens.
[quote]It wasn't cut down, it was removed entirely. Originally you could install Linux on the PS3 easily, after the update the support for running a second operating system was removed.[/QUOTE]
Christ, I need to be clearer with my posts. What I mean is that, from what I've heard, Linux on the PS3 was nowhere near as functional as running it on PC. It didn't have the same functionality as running any Linux distro on a regular PC.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;28494345]But, my games :saddowns:
I also don't want another PS3 bricked.[/QUOTE]
Nothing else matters now. Either all PS3s are clean, or all PS3s MUST BE BRICKED TO STOP THE [b]INSIDIOUS[/b] HACKERS!!!!!
/Sony
Whoa, what the hell did I just post I don't even remember accessing FP. OH SHIT, DONT DRINK THE WATER, SONY IS POISONING IT!!!!!!!11!!1
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515497]Somehow I doubt that people like this Darkhacker and Geohot make a living off of finding random hardware exploits. They'd be quite poor otherwise.
Besides that, judging by his grammar, Darkhacker sounds like he's not even midway through his teens.[/quote]
Oops. I meant "why else would they be so passionate about something that doesn't provide them with income".
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515497]Christ, I need to be clearer with my posts. What I mean is that, from what I've heard, Linux on the PS3 was nowhere near as functional as running it on PC. It didn't have the same functionality as running any Linux distro on a regular PC.[/QUOTE]
It pretty much did, it was just slower since the processor architecture was oddball and people hadn't learned to efficiently run code on it yet.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28515630]Oops. I meant "why else would they be so passionate about something that doesn't provide them with income".[/quote]
Extreme hobby/dedication to programming, pushing open-source the wrong way, fucked if I know.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515652]Extreme hobby/dedication to programming, pushing open-source the wrong way, fucked if I know.[/QUOTE]
It's likely because they like tinkering. Gearheads will spend thousands of dollars to get that extra three horsepower out of their car, nerds will spend thousands of hours to get that Hello World script to run on a toaster. Hobby.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28515775]nerds will spend thousands of hours to get that Hello World script to run on a toaster. Hobby.[/QUOTE]
Okay, now that I would want to see.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;28515797]Okay, now that I would want to see.[/QUOTE]
Nope, GE won't let them do it. Latest firmware update patches it and it won't make toast if you refuse to update.
hooray for darkhacker
[sp]trollface[/sp]
So what is the basis of Sony's Lawsuit against Geohot?
It can't be EULA, shrinkwrap EULAs which only show up once you've purchased it with no warning aren't considered legitimate, only ones pre-purchase.
[editline]9th March 2011[/editline]
If it was EULA, then they have a point. EULAs can be used to prevent things that are otherwise fair use.
Whats the point of OtherOS when you can run Linux on a PC?
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;28513768]
Maybe because without the corporation I wouldn't have a console to begin with. OtherOS shouldn't have been removed in the first place which is a shame for those who enjoyed using it. But respond like this isn't going to help.[/QUOTE]
Without your parents you wouldn't exist
Do you blindly obey your parents in everything
-snip- i am l8
[QUOTE=Wootman;28518761]Whats the point of OtherOS when you can run Linux on a PC?[/QUOTE]
A PC is not a PS3
It's like it is said earlier on this page, people want to learn to work with the PS3 CPU architecture and see what it can do.
[QUOTE=Wootman;28518761]Whats the point of OtherOS when you can run Linux on a PC?[/QUOTE]
Obviously to get more use from your PS3.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;28522845]Without your parents you wouldn't exist
Do you blindly obey your parents in everything[/QUOTE]
Unlike being born however, a PS3 is not essential to enjoying life.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;28497702]Sony creates the PS3 and advertises it with awesome features like being able to install linux, homebrew devs/users/general linux users rejoice. Suddenly the advertised feature is taken away, now they want their shit back.[/QUOTE]
And yet the only developers who have actually bothered going near re-enabling OtherOS got shit all attention. Almost all the "hackers" here are just making custom firmware backup loaders, none of them are experimenting with the PS3s power, or trying to make something useful. Just methods of piracy and getting around bans.
The people who cared about Linux didn't update. The hackers who cared about Linux aren't get publicity. The PS3 "scene" is full of absolute fucking idiots much like the iPhone jailbreak is now.
[editline]10th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28515630]It pretty much did, it was just slower since the processor architecture was oddball and people hadn't learned to efficiently run code on it yet.[/QUOTE]
And Sony restricted access to the GPU, most of the RAM, and some SPUs on the Cell I think. Making it run god awfully slow.
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