Another Dinosaur's color Revealed - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949877]Peacocks bring the feathers up to scare off predators. I see no where in the artists depictions where that is possible. Also, Peacocks are native to India, where there might be various brightly colored flowers around. Female peacocks are boring looking, only the male ones are neat.[/QUOTE] Secondary sexual characteristics. Several male ducks have brightly colored plumage, but they don't scare off predators. They don't blend in with their environment. It's to enhance their attractiveness to a mate. This dinosaur looks no different in this creed.

Even if it were for mating reasons. Might I remind you that their populations are fairly small. In fact I'm pretty sure peacocks are endangered, probably due to their bright colors. Obviously having bright colors for mating isn't the best evolutionary strategy.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949623]Why would the feathers be black, it seems odd no?[/QUOTE] Not at all. There are many, many bird species that are black, or black with brightly colored patterns on them. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949623]Zebras are that color because they come together to form a large striped mass of animals that can be used to scare off predators[/QUOTE] Not true. Zebra stripes are primarily for camouflage purposes. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949877]Peacocks bring the feathers up to scare off predators.[/QUOTE] Not true. It's a mating display. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949623]I never said I was an expert that's just my thought process.[/QUOTE] It seems to me like your thought process suffers from a severe lack of familiarity with animals in general and birds in particular. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Elster_wikipedia2.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Plush-crested_Jay.jpg/792px-Plush-crested_Jay.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.topschatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/parrot-cracker.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20949230]I was saying maybe the artists are wrong. They are dealing with million year old samples.[/QUOTE] You know that feathers aren't for just blending in. They are for attracting mates, and intimidation as well

Human males having nipples makes way less sense than a black bird. They didn't evolve camouflage because they didn't need it. If all the ones without camouflage had no other defense strategy then it would have evolved camouflage. But there are a sit load of other self preservation methods it could have utilized. Joe seems to be trying to say that they could work better. Basically he has a hidden desire to play god.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950020]Even if it were for mating reasons. Might I remind you that their populations are fairly small. In fact I'm pretty sure peacocks are endangered, probably due to their bright colors. Obviously having bright colors for mating isn't the best evolutionary strategy.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/141357/0[/url] Uh, what?

[QUOTE=TH89;20950066]Not at all. There are many, many bird species that are black, or black with brightly colored patterns on them.[/QUOTE]Black is one thing, striped is another, why stripes? [quote] Not true. Zebra stripes are primarily for camouflage purposes. [/quote]Which is exactly what I said, it wards off predators by means of them all camouflaging together. [quote] Not true. It's a mating display. [/quote][URL]http://a-z-animals.com/animals/peacock/[/URL] It can actually be used to scare off predators. [quote] It seems to me like your thought process suffers from a severe lack of familiarity with animals in general and birds in particular. [/quote]Basically, the only point you have is that some birds are black. Might I remind you that the most successful bird in terms of population, is not usually black.

[QUOTE=xpod1;20949420]I always loved his avatar and would like the video it came from. [/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/863364/[/URL] Pretty interesting color scheme.

Looks more like a bird than the last one.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950163]Basically, the only point you have is that some birds are black.[/QUOTE] Also the point that scientists have been carefully studying them for years and are more credible than "omg wouldn't it be cool if they were green. oh and let's throw in swords for tails!!!"

[QUOTE=Mexican;20950184]Also the point that scientists have been carefully studying them for years and are more credible than "omg wouldn't it be cool if they were green. oh and let's throw in swords for tails!!!"[/QUOTE] When did I say that? You're dumb. [editline]11:41PM[/editline] It's actually somewhat remarkable how much you guys misinterpret what I say. Since I disagree with a mod, obviously I am a 3 year old who thinks all dinosaurs are purple and have lightsabres. [editline]11:41PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Flitchaye;20950115][URL]http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/141357/0[/URL] Uh, what?[/QUOTE] Sorry I was looking at: [url]http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/141356/0[/url]

I like the colors. Amazing how they just figured out how to get them.

[QUOTE=Mexican;20950110]Human males having nipples makes way less sense than a black bird. They didn't evolve camouflage because they didn't need it. If all the ones without camouflage had no other defense strategy then it would have evolved camouflage. But there are a sit load of other self preservation methods it could have utilized. Joe seems to be trying to say that they could work better. Basically he has a hidden desire to play god.[/QUOTE] Human male nipples are an evolutionary hitch. Females need them, we just still have them. Male nipples have absolutely nothing to do with survival, but the color of your feathers if you were a bird might actually affect how successful you are as a species.

You're saying "it should be camoflauged to blend in better" while not considering that evolution typically is either completely random or to accomadate extreme species threatening conditions. Therefore, they are black randomly, and it never changed because they were not being wiped out enough to need it. There's a variety of defense mechanisms that animals rely on outside of camouflage. Basically you're thinking of it as if all animals are perfect and ultimately adapted, when most are in fact far from it. [editline]10:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950247]Male nipples have absolutely nothing to do with survival, but the color of your feathers if you were a bird might actually affect how successful you are as a species.[/QUOTE] Yeah but in this case it obviously didn't. A drastic change like that doesn't just magically happen. We will probably never develop bullet proof skin, though it would obviously help our survival. Evolution isn't some magic intelligent force. Just the result of the ones who lived mating.

No, however, if a single offspring were to have a DNA error that changed the black pigment, to say, brown. Those brown offspring would be much more successful than their brown counterparts. Considering the average human has 50-100 mutations. [URL]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html[/URL] Mutations are common, the brown would've wiped out the black ones, since they are slightly more successful due to their more effective camouflage. [U][img]http://www.succulent-plant.com/glossary/images/chlorophyll.png[/img][/U] Chlorophyll A and B are different in one way. An O is changed to 2H. Yet look at the difference in wavelengths they absorb. [IMG]http://johnsonm.com/Info/Chlorophyll_files/image003.jpg[/IMG] A single mutation can be enough.

Not necessarily. I mean if I were born green I'm not going to necessarily survive better. Why? Because we have other means of survival. In fact, being a green person I'll probably find it hard to find a mate. So I'll die and the green skin gene will die with me.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950163]Black is one thing, striped is another, why stripes? Which is exactly what I said, it wards off predators by means of them all camouflaging together.[/QUOTE] You said zebras use their stripes to [i]scare[/i] predators. [highlight]You were wrong.[/highlight] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950163][URL]http://a-z-animals.com/animals/peacock/[/URL][/QUOTE] Lousy source. Given that peacock tails are a) found only on males and b) fall out after the mating season, looks like once again [highlight]you were wrong.[/highlight] If not entirely, then mostly. You claimed that peacock tails were meant to camouflage them against "bright flowers." [highlight]You were wrong.[/highlight] Then you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF and claimed that peacocks were endangered because their tails were poor camouflage. Except it turns out they're not endangered. [highlight]You were wrong.[/highlight] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950163]Basically, the only point you have is that some birds are black.[/QUOTE] Hundreds of different species, many extremely common, are black. [img]http://greennature.com/gallery/icterids/red-winged-blackbird.jpg[/img] Blackbirds are black. [img]http://juniorannex.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/crow.jpg[/img] Crows are black. [img]http://curiousexpeditions.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/raven.jpg[/img] Ravens are black. [img]http://www.birding.in/images/Birds/rajiv/little_cormorant.jpg[/img] Cormorants are black. [img]http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/blog/vulture.jpg[/img] Vultures are black. [img]http://www.college.emory.edu/culpeper/GOUZOULES/site/images/birds/bpics/pileated_woodpecker.jpg[/img] Woodpeckers are black. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950163]Might I remind you that the most successful bird in terms of population, is not usually black.[/QUOTE] You have no statistics to back that up, and I just named a whole bunch of the most common birds on the planet that are black. Looks like [highlight]you were wrong again.[/highlight] In fact, pretty much [highlight]everything you have said has been wrong.[/highlight] Why don't you go take some biology classes?

However we live in an advanced society where you don't need survival traits to survive. On top of that, ancient humans didn't survive because they were strong, or tough, it was because they were smart. I'm going on the assumption this bird wasn't some sort of super smart species of geniuses.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950354]However we live in an advanced society where you don't need survival traits to survive. On top of that, ancient humans didn't survive because they were strong, or tough, it was because they were smart. I'm going on the assumption this bird wasn't some sort of super smart species of geniuses.[/QUOTE] So we survived through brain power not camouflage. So I can easily infer this bird could have survived by being fast, being strong, being scary, being sneaky in another way, or, yeah, it could have outsmarted it's enemies, you don't need to be a super genius to outsmart the other dumb birds. And mating based on appearance is one of our most primal instincts, it's in most other animals too.

[QUOTE=TH89;20950341]You said zebras use their stripes to [I]scare[/I] predators. You were wrong. [/quote] It's still a survival instinct, the choice of words on my part was poor. You say camouflage, I say scare off predators. It still makes them survive, which was the point I was getting at. [quote] Lousy source. Given that peacock tails are a) found only on males and b) fall out after the mating season, looks like once again you were wrong. If not entirely, then mostly. You claimed that peacock tails were meant to camouflage them against "bright flowers." You were wrong. Then you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF and claimed that peacocks were endangered because their tails were poor camouflage. Except it turns out they're not endangered. You were wrong.[/quote] Okay I was wrong there. However, having bright colors makes more sense than having stripes. [quote] Hundreds of different species, many extremely common, are black. [IMG]http://greennature.com/gallery/icterids/red-winged-blackbird.jpg[/IMG] Blackbirds are black. Crows are black. Ravens are black. Cormorants are black. Vultures are black. Woodpeckers are black. You have no statistics to back that up, and I just named a whole bunch of the most common birds on the planet that are black. Looks like [highlight]you were wrong again.[/quote] The bird with the greatest population is chickens. Chickens however, aren't usually black, mostly brown or red. Before Humans domesticated them, they had to survive somehow. Also, you name all these black birds, but fail to mention a single one that has stripes. Black was only a minor problem, my real problem was with the stripes. If I didn't care about the stripes I wouldn't have mentioned them. In fact, pretty much everything you have said has been wrong. Why don't you go take some biology classes?[/QUOTE] Okay.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950402]Also, you name all these black birds, but fail to mention a single one that has stripes. Black was only a minor problem, my real problem was with the stripes. If I didn't care about the stripes I wouldn't have mentioned them.[/QUOTE] [img]http://sdakotabirds.com/species/photos/hairy_woodpecker_1.jpg[/img] NOW GET OUT

[QUOTE=Mexican;20950381]So we survived through brain power not camouflage. So I can easily infer this bird could have survived by being fast, being strong, being scary, being sneaky in another way, or, yeah, it could have outsmarted it's enemies, you don't need to be a super genius to outsmart the other dumb birds. And mating based on appearance is one of our most primal instincts, it's in most other animals too.[/QUOTE] Neanderthals, who spread all over Europe, had a maximum population of 100,000. They were smarter than any other species on the planet at that time. Arguably smarter than the other humans at the time. Yet somehow they only managed a population of 100,000. The smarter you are, the greater your chance of survival.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950402]The bird with the greatest population is chickens. Chickens however, aren't usually black, mostly brown or red. Before Humans domesticated them, they had to survive somehow.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they survived. But before we took a liking to eating them you bet your ass they weren't the most populous. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950420]Neanderthals, who spread all over Europe, had a maximum population of 100,000. They were smarter than any other species on the planet at that time. Arguably smarter than the other humans at the time. Yet somehow they only managed a population of 100,000. The smarter you are, the greater your chance of survival.[/QUOTE] What's your point. Look, the point is that's the color they randomly got through mutation, and that's the way it would probably stay. They clearly did not need camouflage.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_Woodpecker[/url] Wikipedia calls them spots. However I'll give it to you.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950451][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_Woodpecker[/url] Wikipedia calls them spots. However I'll give it to you.[/QUOTE] I will kill you With knives

[QUOTE=Mexican;20950422]Yeah, they survived. But before we took a liking to eating them you bet your ass they weren't the most populous.[/QUOTE] The key is they survived and now they are the most populous. You gave an example of yourself having green skin to be used as camouflage mattered in modern society, no? [quote]What's your point.[/quote]Homo sapien sapiens have a population of hundreds of millions in that same area. Just because you are slightly smarter or faster doesn't mean you will survive necessarily. I assume dinosaurs had to rest at some point. If you stick out like a sore thumb, good luck. [editline]12:03AM[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;20950455]I will kill you With knives[/QUOTE] :smug:

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20950470]Homo sapien sapiens have a population of hundreds of millions in that same area. Just because you are slightly smarter or faster doesn't mean you will survive necessarily. I assume dinosaurs had to sleep.[/QUOTE] Just because you can blend in doesn't either. But they obviously survived without camouflage. I don't know specifically how, but they obviously did it, and it's not that hard to imagine. Plenty of species don't blend in and do fine.

The more survival traits you have, the greater chance of your survival. Camouflage and intelligence are both things that give you an edge over other animals.

People don't have camoflague. People rock though. So there. Maybe the fuckers would have died out eventually but god damn they lived back then. And who's to say they weren't intelligent for their time.

It was funny getting TH89 all angry, I don't necessarily believe what I was saying, but it was sort of funny having him yell.