UK Police 'writing off crimes' because they are so overstretched, damning report reveals - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Coffee;51898884]Why don't the government give them more funding? Why don't the government give the NHS more funding? Why don't the government scrap Trident and use the money to improve the country?[/QUOTE] cuz obviously if you fund the police, the health system and nuclear weapons systems all at the same time the market will explode from inflation because as we all know the market is so very fragile and must not be tempted to destroy itself with slightly increased aggregate demand

[QUOTE=Doozle;51899249] And even if I was burgled, fucking take it, I don't wanna kill someone over some inanimate objects[/QUOTE] If I was pro-gun, I'd assert that this means that your culture (or just you and some select people) allows hooliganism to prosper because there's not as heavy a price on attempting robbery, compared to the price potentially paid by criminals in un countries. Your life and finances. You try to rob a place or a person, you're putting your life on the line to illegally advance yourself in some way, and if you fail, you might get shot and have to pay out the ass for the medical treatment.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51899122]You guys have a surveillance state and it's not being used to protect you. It should make you think.[/QUOTE] It was never about protecting citizens but subjugating them.

I can understand the ban on guns, hell I can even understand the ban on knives/tools (though it seems a little too much for me). But why ban for example pepper spray? I understand it might not be 100% effective, it could be potentially dangerous to the attacker should he has some lung problems, but still it is a mean of self-defence with no permament harm as far as I know. Has this case been explained somewhere?

Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51899336]Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?[/QUOTE] Crippling heroin addict burglars; the American wet dream

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51899336]Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?[/QUOTE] There's a grand total of two posts that come even remotely close to wanting to import the US gun culture into the UK You're reeaaally reaching to get that nationalistic hate boner

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51899336]Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?[/QUOTE] I dunno, it's rare our soldiers get pulled out of their car in the middle of the street and get beheaded though.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;51899359]I dunno, it's rare our soldiers get pulled out of their car in the middle of the street and get beheaded though.[/QUOTE] It's pretty rare here too.

tbh I'm not a fan of having guns in the UK. I mean sure you'll be able to defend yourself but it's gonna be easier for criminals to get hold of guns as well - I'm not discussing America here but what I think would likely happen in the UK. There's enough sawn-off shotguns knocking about some parts. My ex-girlfriend's work got robbed once - they just handed them the cash because company policy was to basically give criminals what they wanted. She's trained in martial arts and says she thinks she could easily have handled him with the rest of the staff but they're not allowed to.

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51899336]Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?[/QUOTE] CZ has historically had very lax gun laws, most people I've told this were genuinely surprised. They have never seen a gun in their life and weren't aware they can legally carry assault rifles. Gun laws and gun culture are two entirely separate things.

So what's the end-game if UK citizens are both powerless to effect better police protection and simply above the barbaric notion of self-defense that the simple-minded Americans cling to? I guess if you're of the mind that the quality of your character would be somehow compromised by defending yourself from victimization then you'll get what you get, which would be fine if the laws that followed that mindset didn't also mean that the wheelchair-bound grandfather next door and the pregnant woman at the gas station get what they get.

The problem isn't really people concerned with their character, at least from what I've seen - it's that the law will bite you on the ass if you try and do anything about it. We really need better self-defence laws and more police funding.

[QUOTE=FZE;51899473]So what's the end-game if UK citizens are both powerless to effect better police protection and simply above the barbaric notion of self-defense that the simple-minded Americans cling to? I guess if you're of the mind that the quality of your character would be somehow compromised by defending yourself from victimization then you'll get what you get, which would be fine if the laws that followed that mindset didn't also mean that the wheelchair-bound grandfather next door and the pregnant woman at the gas station get what they get.[/QUOTE] Probably get on with our lives, enjoy life, stop fearing the worst

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;51899482]The problem isn't really people concerned with their character, at least from what I've seen - it's that the law will bite you on the ass if you try and do anything about it. We really need better self-defence laws and more police funding.[/QUOTE] These guys here [QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51899336]Lol at the Americans in this thread wanting to import gun culture into the UK. Are there not enough school shootings over there and you need another source?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doozle;51899249]We don't need guns. We don't have the culture of paranoia that promotes gun ownership. I don't live in constant fear of being attacked or burgled even when I lived in a postcode with one of the highest rates of burglary in the country. And even if I was burgled, fucking take it, I don't wanna kill someone over some inanimate objects[/QUOTE] are not concerned with the retribution of the law. I should have made it more apparent that it's really only a subset of people with that mindset that I can't wrap my head around, not all the UK posters share it.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;51899383]tbh I'm not a fan of having guns in the UK. I mean sure you'll be able to defend yourself but it's gonna be easier for criminals to get hold of guns as well - I'm not discussing America here but what I think would likely happen in the UK. There's enough sawn-off shotguns knocking about some parts. My ex-girlfriend's work got robbed once - they just handed them the cash because company policy was to basically give criminals what they wanted. She's trained in martial arts and says she thinks she could easily have handled him with the rest of the staff but they're not allowed to.[/QUOTE] Of course not. Yes, maybe she could've handled them. Or maybe one of them was concealing a weapon and your ex would've gotten herself badly hurt or killed, along with other people in the store. The reason companies insist their employees cooperate fully with criminals is to not only keep their own people and visiting customers as safe as possible, but to avoid the chance of civil liability should an employee be injured in such an incident. Can you imagine how much they'd be sued for if they told their employees to defend their property with their lives, for example?

[QUOTE=Doozle;51899504]Probably get on with our lives, enjoy life, stop fearing the worst[/QUOTE] I think you might feel differently if and when you're ever attacked. I don't carry a firearm or any self defense weapons because, like you, I'm not worried about it, but if I were to ever get hurt, I'd be pissed at myself for not being prepared.

[QUOTE=Doozle;51899504]Probably get on with our lives, enjoy life, stop fearing the worst[/QUOTE] It is unironically wonderful that you and the overwhelming majority of people in both of our countries can enjoy their lives without the thought of being robbed or burglarized or raped or murdered ever crossing their minds, but the number of people for whom that is a legitimate daily concern is not negligible and the laws enacted to suit the former make no distinctions or exceptions for the latter.

Knifes are not very good in a fight unless you really know how to use them effectively, still they're better than nothing, a baton is much better choice of self defense weapon for your average person however getting hold of a good telescopic baton is harder and more expensive than a good locking knife. It's total bullshit that it's illegal to carry a self defense weapon in England, basically makes me a criminal since I refuse to leave the house without my knife, but fuck it I'd rather be a criminal than be caught in a situation where I have to defend myself without a weapon.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51899519]Of course not. Yes, maybe she could've handled them. Or maybe one of them was concealing a weapon and your ex would've gotten herself badly hurt or killed, along with other people in the store. The reason companies insist their employees cooperate fully with criminals is to not only keep their own people and visiting customers as safe as possible, but to avoid the chance of civil liability should an employee be injured in such an incident. Can you imagine how much they'd be sued for if they told their employees to defend their property with their lives, for example?[/QUOTE] Yeah I agree with you - it's always a good idea to be safe but that is not why they had the policy. The policy was first and foremost concerned about staying in the clear legally. Probably worth noting that this wasn't a great company in the first place.

[QUOTE=Coffee;51898884]Why don't the government give them more funding? Why don't the government give the NHS more funding? Why don't the government scrap Trident and use the money to improve the country?[/QUOTE] m8, only thing that matters is leaving EU.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;51899589]Yeah I agree with you - it's always a good idea to be safe but that is not why they had the policy. The policy was first and foremost concerned about staying in the clear legally.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I definitely agree with you. The primary concern of any major business, especially a publicly traded one, will always be the money. But in a country with good regulations, the interests of money will often line up with the interests of keeping their employees safe. So the system works sometimes.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51899605]Yeah, I definitely agree with you. The primary concern of any major business, especially a publicly traded one, will always be the money. But in a country with good regulations, the interests of money will often line up with the interests of keeping their employees safe. So the system works sometimes.[/QUOTE] If someone wants cash from the register when I'm at the till and they've got a knife or something they can fuckin' have it, I'll even bag it up for you.

A good part about not having a gun culture like the US is that the regular police over here don't carry around pistols, unlike in the US where they'll pop a few rounds in your dog if it yawns in the general direction of the police officer.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;51899359]I dunno, it's rare our soldiers get pulled out of their car in the middle of the street and get beheaded though.[/QUOTE] On the other hand you do have [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822013"]more public mass shootings than any other country in the world[/URL], so I'm not sure why you thought that single incident was worth mentioning.

[QUOTE=Reagy;51899006]Short answer: No. It really is stupid, you're allowed to use "reasonable force" but that is entirely up to the Judge to decide what you did was "reasonable", if they came at you with a hammer and you were say a purple belt in karate and used that to break their arm to ensure they couldn't use the hammer against you, you're the one who is going to get punished for it.[/QUOTE] It's not up to a judge, it's up to a jury to decide whether or not it was reasonable force. People don't seem to understand how self defence works under Common Law.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;51899012][URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2074077.stm"]Which leads to bizarre cases like this.[/URL][/QUOTE] if you're talking about the suing, the claim was dropped if you're talking about the manslaughter, the farmer shot the burglar, who was running away, in the back with a shotgun "The prosecution accused him of lying in wait for the burglars and opening fire without warning from close range, in retribution for previous break-ins at his home." this is such a frequently brought up case that I am convinced nobody has actually read the details for what the farmer did [editline]2nd March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=FZE;51899473]So what's the end-game if UK citizens are both powerless to effect better police protection and simply above the barbaric notion of self-defense that the simple-minded Americans cling to? I guess if you're of the mind that the quality of your character would be somehow compromised by defending yourself from victimization then you'll get what you get, which would be fine if the laws that followed that mindset didn't also mean that the wheelchair-bound grandfather next door and the pregnant woman at the gas station get what they get.[/QUOTE] please read up on the UK self defence laws before making reactionary posts claiming that self-defence is somehow below british people

[QUOTE=Doozle;51899249]We don't need guns.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. [QUOTE=Doozle;51899249]We don't have the culture of paranoia that promotes gun ownership. I don't live in constant fear of being attacked or burgled even when I lived in a postcode with one of the highest rates of burglary in the country.[/QUOTE] Oh wait... you actually went the "owning a firearm means they must be paranoid!" route. Classy. [QUOTE=Doozle;51899249]And even if I was burgled, fucking take it, I don't wanna kill someone over some inanimate objects[/QUOTE] That awkward moment when you realize not all violent crimes are burglaries.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51900380] please read up on the UK self defence laws before making reactionary posts claiming that self-defence is somehow below british people[/QUOTE] That is a position being taken within this topic.

[QUOTE=Doozle;51899504]Probably get on with our lives, enjoy life, stop fearing the worst[/QUOTE] you can be prepared and not be afraid