[QUOTE=ewitwins;30383023]I fail to understand why so many people feel threatened by the fact that China has an aircraft carrier.
As an American citizen I can tell you that this has been on the news quite a bit recently, and nobody seems to be alarmed by this news. Why? Because China is well within it's rights to want an aircraft carrier, and a very small one at that. It allows them to protect their (legitimate) maritime borders, fight off pirates, and maybe even assist U.N. peacekeeping missions.
Who knows, this might be the first step in China taking a more active role in global peace-keeping. Wouldn't that be a nice turn of events, eh?[/QUOTE]
Well there is some reason to be concerned, maybe, China has for the most part completely assimilated Tibet and wants to do the same with Taiwan. Although its important to remember that we didn't dispute their claim to Tibet and Taiwan until America became an imperial power.
And of course China's government has recently released a game in which America is the sole enemy. At least when an American COMPANY made a game about a Chinese invasion they swapped the pretended the enemy was actually North Korea.
You might say that its paranoia to be concerned about China's lil' Navy but you have to understand that people on top have to be concerned about losing everything all of the time, even a single old refurbished aircraft carrier is cause for concern especially when dealing with a government that does the shitty things China does.
[QUOTE=Gaza Pen Pal;30383140]Well there is some reason to be concerned, maybe, China has for the most part completely assimilated Tibet and wants to do the same with Taiwan. Although its important to remember that we didn't dispute their claim to Tibet and Taiwan until America became an imperial power.
And of course China's government has recently released a game in which America is the sole enemy. At least when an American COMPANY made a game about a Chinese invasion they swapped the pretended the enemy was actually North Korea.
You might say that its paranoia to be concerned about China's lil' Navy but you have to understand that people on top have to be concerned about losing everything all of the time, even a single old refurbished aircraft carrier is cause for concern especially when dealing with a government that does the shitty things China does.[/QUOTE]
theres more than one game where china is the enemy in a game
ex fallout
I really want to learn Chinese now.
[QUOTE=Ridge;30382958]The US has 2/3rds of the world's fleet of aircraft carriers. Suck it, China.
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B5-1oeewfB8/S69kMAyS1GI/AAAAAAAAKss/mwSsqlAbLFE/s1600/carriers.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
What's the second French carrier?
Oh it's [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Arc_%28R_97%29[/url]
Not really a carrier.
[QUOTE=Ridge;30382958]The US has 2/3rds of the world's fleet of aircraft carriers. Suck it, China.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B5-1oeewfB8/S69kMAyS1GI/AAAAAAAAKss/mwSsqlAbLFE/s1600/carriers.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
America has control of the seas. That is one of the reasons our power can't really be matched. Even just looking at aircraft carriers and not other vessels, we outnumber our greatest ally by 16 aircraft carriers.
christ almighty, that thing looks fucking menacing without a good paint job
oh and "its just a casino"
oh china, you so crazy
[QUOTE=TheTalon;30383056]Wow, the Oriskany before they sank it, when it was being stripped of everything, looked in better shape than that thing
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/SaborWolf/P1141147.jpg[/img]
Photo I took before they blew it up out at sea[/QUOTE]
I love that every damn picture taken from ex-East Bloc are dark and grim like fucking Chernobyl disaster would have happened every picture.
I mean even NATURE wants that ex-East Bloc looks depressing.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;30383117]I agree completely. I did several essays and a large report on China as an economic power and as a military power, and honestly?
They may be in serious economic trouble in the next few years if they don't get things turned around. They're essentially in the same position that Japan was before their bubble popped. I mean, for Christ sakes, they have entire cities, uninhabited because of over-estimation and excess.
If they're going to do any dominating, it's going to be economically, and they're starting to falter at that. They have every right to defend themselves, but I'm not going to lie: I'm both interested and worried as to how they (Chinese leadership) would react in the event of an economic meltdown. Who would they reach out for help? Would they land-grab? Would they attempt to push illegitimate territorial gains as legal in an attempt to gain resources.
I suppose it's all speculation.[/QUOTE]
China actually better do something to avoid bursting their bubble for the good of China's stakeholders. 60% of Australia's iron ore exports go to China, and if there's no demand for it then it's going to fuck over the Australian economy. Of course it's not just limited to Australia, Brazil (I think) also exports alot to China. Also, of course a rather obvious mention is that you can find Chinese products in any country on the Earth. When the largest source of imports is removed, lack of supply does have its bad effects.
China's kind of like the guy no one wants to be dependant on, but everyone has to do it anyways or they'll get fucked.
Increasing chinese power.
Instant negative ratings.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;30385682]
China's kind of like the guy no one wants to be dependant on, but everyone has to do it anyways or they'll get fucked.[/QUOTE]
Same applies to all countries that matter on an economical scale.
Edit: Not necessarily a bad thing, one reason why world war 3 hasn't happened by now is that all countries have become economically dependant on eachother. Other reason is nukes. If none of those two reasons existed, America, China and possibly Russia (which has been going downhill) would be duking it out all around the globe for position as the overlord.
[QUOTE=Ridge;30382958]The US has 2/3rds of the world's fleet of aircraft carriers. Suck it, China.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B5-1oeewfB8/S69kMAyS1GI/AAAAAAAAKss/mwSsqlAbLFE/s1600/carriers.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
Uk has 4 Aircraft carriers, but the problem is we don't have anything to launch from them.
[QUOTE=jeimizu;30383434]What's the second French carrier?
Oh it's [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Arc_%28R_97%29[/url]
Not really a carrier.[/QUOTE]
Well our LHDs aren't [I]technically[/I] carriers, but they're on there too. I guess they sort of count because of their harriers.
[QUOTE=Gaza Pen Pal;30382804]lol if you think theres another group of people on earth that buy as much useless shit as us
china and america are gonna be tight[/QUOTE]
Europe is the largest market on earth.
Well atleast China isn't spending $667 billion dollars on their defense budget.
China is realising that economic power is the most important power and that if a world war would break out again it would end in total anhillation anyways.
This is Australia fault for giving there retired Aircraft Carrier to China to be put into a ship graveyard.
[QUOTE=Best4bond;30387255]This is Australia fault for giving there retired Aircraft Carrier to China to be put into a ship graveyard.
But its Americas Fault for giving it to Australia.
Fuck you America![/QUOTE]
It's Russian. And no it's not Ukrainian in origin, it's Russian, they sold it to Ukraine.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Varyag[/url]
[QUOTE=Sourcream&onion;30387719]It's Russian.[/QUOTE]
Look at this:
[quote]The 1983 election in Australia, which saw a change of government, led to the cancellation of plans to replace Melbourne.[18] The carrier was sold to China for scrap in 1985, although the People's Liberation Army Navy used Melbourne to develop plans for her own aircraft carrier and to train pilots in carrier operations.[19]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carriers_of_the_Royal_Australian_Navy[/url][/quote]
Well shit it's a bad thing that China has an aircraft carrier. This must be the end of the world.
[QUOTE=Best4bond;30387255]This is Australia fault for giving there retired Aircraft Carrier to China to be put into a ship graveyard.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should read the OP? Because going by your logic, how did Australia come to acquire a carrier from the Soviet Union?
[QUOTE=nightlord;30385883]Uk has 4 Aircraft carriers, but the problem is we don't have anything to launch from them.[/QUOTE]
We're down to HMS Lusty.
but she now only handles helicopters
:eng99:
[QUOTE=Best4bond;30387255]This is Australia fault for giving there retired Aircraft Carrier to China to be put into a ship graveyard.[/QUOTE]
Damn, we need the bad rating back.
[QUOTE=booster;30386419]Well atleast China isn't spending $667 billion dollars on their defense budget.[/QUOTE]
When they don't have to pay contractors, or their soldiers a livable wage it's pretty easy to do that...
[editline]11th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Careld;30385096]I love that every damn picture taken from ex-East Bloc are dark and grim like fucking Chernobyl disaster would have happened every picture.
I mean even NATURE wants that ex-East Bloc looks depressing.[/QUOTE]
That's taken on the US east coast...
[QUOTE=Ridge;30391730]When they don't have to pay contractors, or their soldiers a livable wage it's pretty easy to do that...[/QUOTE]
Correction: The defense contractor fat cats sell the DoD their systems at the greatest possible cost. As for PLA soldiers not having a livable wage, I'd like to see credible substantiation on that.
[QUOTE=Ridge;30382958]The US has 2/3rds of the world's fleet of aircraft carriers. Suck it, China.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B5-1oeewfB8/S69kMAyS1GI/AAAAAAAAKss/mwSsqlAbLFE/s1600/carriers.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
You must be proud of your countries ability to spend more on defense then social services.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30393511]Correction: The defense contractor fat cats sell the DoD their systems at the greatest possible cost. As for PLA soldiers not having a livable wage, I'd like to see credible substantiation on that.[/QUOTE]
Recruits get about $150 US a month IIRC, not livable in america, but when taking PPP in account, it's reasonable.
[editline]12th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Stany01;30394211]You must be proud of your countries ability to spend more on defense then social services.[/QUOTE]
You know the US spends more than two times as much on social services than defence, right?
[QUOTE=Contag;30394271]Recruits get about $150 US a month IIRC, not livable in america, but when taking PPP in account, it's reasonable.
[editline]12th June 2011[/editline]
You know the US spends more than two times as much on social services than defence, right?[/QUOTE]
[img]https://secure3.convio.net/sojo/images/content/pagebuilder/FY_2011_Discretionary_budget_chart_correct.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Stany01;30394674][img]https://secure3.convio.net/sojo/images/content/pagebuilder/FY_2011_Discretionary_budget_chart_correct.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[quote]The federal government's expenditures in FY2010 included Medicare & Medicaid ($793B or 23%), Social Security ($701B or 20%), Defense Department ($689B or 20%), and non-defense discretionary ($660B or 19%)[/quote]
[editline]12th June 2011[/editline]
If only the US had to pay for discretionary spending, then they wouldn't be in so much shit.
[QUOTE=Contag;30394271]Recruits get about $150 US a month IIRC, not livable [b]in america[/b], but when taking PPP in account, it's reasonable.[/QUOTE]
But honestly, there not much credible information on contemporary PLA pay rates from what I've seen. I'll try to dig deeper in the future.
Yes, we have discretionary spending, which is the money allowed to be allocated by congress yearly, and non discretionary spending, which is set by law and can only be changed with the updating of the laws. Our social service programs are non discretionary, and are what constitutes the majority of our large debt.
As you can see in the below image, We spend more on social programs than Defense, (Red and Green are the majority of social spending)
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png/800px-U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png[/img]
It's probably worth mentioning that China has not successfully fielded a navy since the Battle of Penghu in 1683. Against the Kingdom of Tungning.
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