• Golden Dawn sympathizer and off-duty cop fires into crowd of leftist protesters, misses every shot,
    91 replies, posted
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42269273']Well, I'm a libertarian socialist so I believe in the minimum amount of enforcement as possible, and using voluntary benefits and incentives to get people to follow the "laws". Further, I'd prefer that law be composed of what [I]everybody[/I] can at least compromise on, or rather deal with uncoercively. Unrealistic? sure. Realistically? [URL="http://warriorpublications.wordpress.com/2013/09/20/practice-first-then-theory-the-zapatista-little-school-shares-lessons-learned-during-19-years-of-self-governance/"]Create systems and institutions that democratize law to its most maximum extent, and also law enforcement, meaning that accountability is at every level, and is constantly able to be changed by general will, meaning that what law is actually the closest to the general will and consensual rules of society than coercive instruction[/URL]. Further, create institutions and processes to minimize problematic elements of society, by bringing those that would otherwise choose crime or the breaking of "laws" into the fold. Why break laws that benefit you? Unhappy people beak laws- people who are taken care of and provided for through law do not. Also I'm not being liberal at this. I think capitalism is exploitative, so I think the protectors of capitalist law are exploitative. that isn't a high horse, that's me being ideological. [editline]21st September 2013[/editline] Also fuck the laws in place and fuck the way American law is handled. Capitalist law for capitalists, reviewed by an autocracy and created by an aristocracy. Yipee kay yay motherfreedom[/QUOTE] okay so I'm just going to murder my neighbor and steal his benefits so I don't have to do the work to get my own benefits
[QUOTE=geel9;42269372]okay so I'm just going to murder my neighbor and steal his benefits so I don't have to do the work to get my own benefits[/QUOTE] what are you even on about? that's not how it works. you can't kill someone and suddenly, like, to give a current example, their EBT funds aren't going to magically transfer to your account or some shit. Unless you're a credit vampire that feeds off the bank accounts of those you neighbor. I want to suck your funds. And sure you could murder hi, then go to jail. But why murder him when you already have what you need?
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42269494']And sure you could murder hi, then go to jail. But why murder him when you already have what you need?[/QUOTE] The problem is the little "you already have what you need?". Such a thing is impossible to fulfill.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42269525]The problem is the little "you already have what you need?". Such a thing is impossible to fulfill.[/QUOTE] only if you come from the viewpoint that humans can never be satisfied. But as it stands, demand is mostly constructed. In communiatarian and poorer societies, most people don't have the constantly increasing demand you see in western capitalist nations. There is a point where the healthy human being says "Yea, i have enough, thanks" or "No, I'm good with what I have", but you don't see it in the western middle classes because advertising and disposable incomes combined create materialistic consumerist incentive to purchase useless shit.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42269573']only if you come from the viewpoint that humans can never be satisfied. But as it stands, demand is mostly constructed.[/quote] People have a whole variety of demands even in pre-agricultural societies. How is demand "constructed" exactly? [quote]In communiatarian and poorer societies, most people don't have the constantly increasing demand you see in western capitalist nations.[/quote] Yes they do. Demand for goods and services is constant even in the poorest and most primitive societies. Demand increases, goods and services purchased. Wealth created, production grows. [quote]There is a point where the healthy human being says "Yea, i have enough, thanks" or "No, I'm good with what I have", but you don't see it in the western middle classes because advertising and disposable incomes combined create materialistic consumerist incentive to purchase useless shit.[/QUOTE] What exactly is "useless" by your definition?
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;42265090]Did you seriously expect people to be calm when they were being [b]fucking shot at[/b]? The police should have arrested him immediately, not acted as aggressive as they were toward people that could have been severely injured or killed.[/QUOTE] Not at all. The crowd's reaction was completely justified and expected. But the police are supposed to stop violence and keep the peace. They stopped a mob from descending on a man and causing further violence. The source says the perpetrator was arrested. I don't understand what the police did wrong.
people always make fun of people who call cops fascist and shit, but these are cops who are literally fascists and i really think that's a bad thing
I don't think he missed his shots. I don't think he even aimed at them. The protestants were pretty aggressive, it is more probable he was just trying to scare them off.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42271558]people always make fun of people who call cops fascist and shit, but these are cops who are literally fascists and i really think that's a bad thing[/QUOTE]The difference is that being a police officer does not make someone a fascist. Its just that fascists tend towards fields like policing in an effort to actually give power to their ideas.
[QUOTE=areolop;42266230]Honestly, it doenst matter. Its greece.[/QUOTE] Your USA is no better.
[QUOTE=katbug;42267944]I find it pretty much impossible to believe that he fired at a crowd and missed EVERY SHOT. I also find it hard to believe that what he did was unprovoked.[/QUOTE] This was just the so-called sensationalist title, but we're still talking about firing gunshots in public, which in some places would easily account for as many attempted murders, I guess. But then again firing the gun into the air or into the ground (ricocheting considered) in an attempt to disperse a group of people in a [i]relatively[/i] safe way seems actually fine to me, and it is mostly up to the protesters and whoever whether they want to be involved in the situation anymore or not, as they can always quickly depart.
Only Imperial Law Enforcers are so precise
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42271558]people always make fun of people who call cops fascist and shit, but these are cops who are literally fascists and i really think that's a bad thing[/QUOTE] Exactly how are these cops fascists?
[QUOTE=ewitwins;42268353]Man, I just do Reserve and that's still just incredibly ignorant. I don't even know what to say to that. When was the last time you were robbed, or had something of yours stolen? You rely on the police on an everyday basis and you don't even realize it. Next time you realize that you have the ability to cross the street without being shot at, thank a police officer, or better yet a teacher, for doing their job. They go hand-in-hand. [editline]22nd September 2013[/editline] Scratch all of that, I just realized that I'm talking to yawmwen.[/QUOTE] i got robbed at gunpoint not even a month ago...where the fuck were the good ol' boys when that was happening?
[QUOTE=Hellsten;42274921]Exactly how are these cops fascists?[/QUOTE] erm, the fact that 50-60% of them support a self-proclaimed fascist party?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42274953]i got robbed at gunpoint not even a month ago...where the fuck were the good ol' boys when that was happening?[/QUOTE]Police can only truly prevent crimes if they are present at the time. I am very certain you wouldn't want police officers following every person around to make sure they don't commit a crime or to prevent them from becoming a victim of one. But the idea that the police may be appear at any time is a strong deterrent towards crime. Hence why areas that have lower police presence typically have higher crime rates.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42275255]Police can only truly prevent crimes if they are present at the time. I am very certain you wouldn't want police officers following every person around to make sure they don't commit a crime or to prevent them from becoming a victim of one. But the idea that the police may be appear at any time is a strong deterrent towards crime. Hence why areas that have lower police presence typically have higher crime rates.[/QUOTE] wasn't there a news story showing the opposite correlation recently? crime rates fell as police numbers went down.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42275519]wasn't there a news story showing the opposite correlation recently? crime rates fell as police numbers went down.[/QUOTE] The number of police is obviously the dependent variable if what you say is true. Or there is no causal relationship at all.
Wasn't that also in a single location and had to do with the fact that because there were less police, fewer reports were being made since most crime statistics rely on information gathered by the police.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42275519]wasn't there a news story showing the opposite correlation recently? crime rates fell as police numbers went down.[/QUOTE] In a single small town that is not representative of major urban centers.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42275562]fewer reports were being made since most crime statistics rely on information gathered by the police.[/QUOTE] (this doesn't make any sense at all) [editline]22nd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;42275542]The number of police is obviously the dependent variable if what you say is true. Or there is no causal relationship at all.[/QUOTE] that was my point [editline]22nd September 2013[/editline] the best academic source i can find is that increased police presence can help lower some property crime. even then, it's still shaky.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42275654](this doesn't make any sense at all)[/QUOTE] It means that a lot of crimes are going unreported because the infrastructure necessary to record them does not exist.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42275680]It means that a lot of crimes are going unreported because the infrastructure necessary to record them does not exist.[/QUOTE] that has nothing to do with police presence. less coppers on the streets won't prevent someone from calling 911
iirc 911 is just dispatchers, they make no record, the police who investigate make the record. Plus there are crimes that aren't 911 worthy that are reported at police stations.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42275699]that has nothing to do with police presence. less coppers on the streets won't prevent someone from calling 911[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/08/less_cops_less_crime_mlive_inv.html[/url] [quote]“I think that a lot of crime is going unreported. I think people are figuring, ‘What good does it do you?’” Executive Director Fred Timpner said. “A pizza delivery guy is faster than a police officer in a lot of locations.”[/quote] Of course there are a whole lot of other factors (decreasing population of young, arrest rates are dropping, etc). It's consistent with long term trends we have seen over the past few decades (crime is continuing to decline steadily), and I don't think the police inherently cause crime (and thus by their removal, reduce it).
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42275817]iirc 911 is just dispatchers, they make no record, the police who investigate make the record. Plus there are crimes that aren't 911 worthy that are reported at police stations.[/QUOTE] you missed my point entirely [editline]22nd September 2013[/editline] also i just realized this thread was about fascist pigs we should talk about them instead of coppers in general
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42275852]you missed my point entirely [/QUOTE] no I didn't I'm just saying that depending on how crime rate data is collected it could easily be a skewed figure besides, the study you're talking about was in Michigan, home of Detroit, where police presence is famously low and crime rates are famously high.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42260261]why the fuck am i not surprised that the pigs are the biggest supporters of these nazis?[/QUOTE] he was arrested afterwards; I'd say this was a pretty decent move by the police since despite the guy being a fucking retard it was probably best he didn't get beaten by the protesters
[QUOTE=Hellsten;42274921]Exactly how are these cops fascists?[/QUOTE] well i'm referring to the off-duty cop and the 60-75% of cops the golden dawn claim are their supporters [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic Monk;42276330]he was arrested afterwards; I'd say this was a pretty decent move by the police since despite the guy being a fucking retard it was probably best he didn't get beaten by the protesters[/QUOTE] i'm gonna way and see if they're gonna actually charge him or just let him go before i call it a decent move or not
Well it was a decent move by the police at the scene; if he isn't charged that's a failure of justice and a different matter
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