Shout At The Devil: Blizzard Acknowledges Diablo III Hacks - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Protocol7;36053854] I've rubberbanded a few times, but I've never been killed as a result.[/QUOTE] Some people have been. Like that one level 60 hardcore mode witchdoctor that got killed when Blizzard servers were acting up. In inferno mode even the tiniest second of lag can mean the difference between life and death. Hardcore mode is basically pointless if you can't do it offline.

[QUOTE=Fear_Fox;36051100]The always online isn't only a DRM. It's also a way for them to easily prevent people from hacking the game by adding for example items and gold and stuff that then later can be sold on the real money auction house. It's a way to safeguard that all stuff you find is authentic and not cheated. So it works as an anti-cheat. The DRM part is just a bonus.[/QUOTE] So basically, things that are almost exclusivly Blizzard's problem (not the consumer's problem), they have to make it so it is EVERYONE'S problem with always on DRM? [B]Watch:[/B] [url]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5743-You-Should-Be-Mad-at-Diablo-IIIs-Always-Online-DRM[/url] This doesn't justify it, really. Auction house security is only an extremely minor issue to the actual players, since its not (or rather, should not be) an integral part of the base game and it honestly wouldn't be something I could see ever getting seriously abused by people who want to use it if proper precautions were put into place. But now it *is* a big issue, because Blizzard basically forced it to be everyone's problem instead of just their own, and they are trying to force as many people to want to use it as possible... why? Because they can make a killing by milking you for your dollar after you already paid a borderline extortionist price. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Fear_Fox;36052651]In addition to my previous post. Here is Blizzards own statement about having both offline and online gameplay modes: Source: [URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-cannot-be-played-offline/[/URL] I never denied it works as a DRM. Because it truly does. But it being a DRM is not the [B]only[/B] reason they have it this way.[/QUOTE] My favorite part about this is they claim "Oh, but you'll have to start a game over if you wanted to play online!!" as their major reason for not having offline characters. But yet... the game was basically designed to be played over and over, by the fact that you have different difficulty modes that ONLY are avalable to you after you beat the (piss easy) normal mode, the fact that the loot drops and enemy encounters are different in these modes, the fact that money you get on one character transfers over to other characters, etc. It all was designed to be replayed. For them to say they wouldn't want people to do that, for a "separate" online component, because it would suck "for the player" (while always-online DRM even in single player obviously does NOT suck for the player at all!) is extremely shortsighted and comes off to me as them simply making excuses. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;36053262]considering how shitty drops are when you're leveling up, the AH is an integral part of the game for me[/QUOTE] Sounds like poor game design to me, with the AH and always-on DRM exsisting as a crutch, rather than it really being "integral"

Did I ever say it justified it? No not really. I did however say it wasn't exclusively a DRM. I don't exactly like it either, but I can from their point of view see why they chosen it to be this way.

[QUOTE=KorJax;36054001] [B]Watch:[/B] [url]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5743-You-Should-Be-Mad-at-Diablo-IIIs-Always-Online-DRM[/url][/QUOTE] No thanks. Video title includes "always on DRM" when it's clearly not DRM. I'd really rather not listen to someone blabber on over things they know nothing about. We already have enough people doing that already, considering your "poor game design" quip. Yeah, Blizzard, poor game design. They should listen to random people on FP.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054345]No thanks. Video title includes "always on DRM" when it's clearly not DRM. I'd really rather not listen to someone blabber on over things they know nothing about. We already have enough people doing that already, considering your "poor game design" quip. Yeah, Blizzard, poor game design. They should listen to random people on FP.[/QUOTE]Except it is always-on DRM.

[QUOTE=TehWhale;36054418]Except it is always-on DRM.[/QUOTE] Something that prevents you from playing by consequence of requiring an internet connection != Digital Rights Management specifically designed to restrict your access to a product.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054345]No thanks. Video title includes "always on DRM" when it's clearly not DRM. I'd really rather not listen to someone blabber on over things they know nothing about. We already have enough people doing that already, considering your "poor game design" quip. Yeah, Blizzard, poor game design. They should listen to random people on FP.[/QUOTE] Read the quote I posted at the top of the page. It IS a form of DRM too. Blizzard admits it. But not exclusively a DRM.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054464]Something that prevents you from playing by consequence of requiring an internet connection != Digital Rights Management specifically designed to restrict your access to a product.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but no matter what you try to wrap this up with it is in fact DRM. I can install this game on any computer but the only way to play it is to log in to my battle.net account. That is the very essence of DRM. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] Something that controls access and limits the use of a digital product with the purpose of preventing it from being used in a way that is against the desires of the content provider is DRM. It is clear that Blizzard does not desire that anyone play Diablo 3 single player without always being online.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054509]I'm sorry but no matter what you try to wrap this up with it is in fact DRM.[/QUOTE] "I'm sorry but no matter how much you know the actual definition and purpose of DRM and are able to separate it from an online service provided by Blizzard I am in fact right let me just keep parroting myself over and over" Yeah, guess what, you can't play WoW without being on Blizzard's servers either. Is that DRM? No, that's how the [B]game is designed.[/B] [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] You can say "Gee it sucks I can't play offline on Diablo 3" and reference that fact as a negative part of the game, but you aren't allowed to call a networking service "DRM" when it's specifically stated not to be and is the lynchpin for a whole host of game systems. This is what happens when armchair game critics grab a hold of marketing buzzword bullshit. They read DRM every day so think that anything preventing them from playing the game at certain times is DRM. My power went out yesterday because of a bad storm. Fucking Thor and his draconian DRM!!!!

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054509]Something that controls access and limits the use of a digital product with the purpose of preventing it from being used in a way that is against the desires of the content provider is DRM. It is clear that Blizzard does not desire that anyone play Diablo 3 single player without always being online.[/QUOTE] I think you're honestly right. This is (unfortunately) the direction the industry is going as a whole, and I think it is the direction Blizzard is going to begin to go. I think they are trying to play off of this though, as there are benefits to always being online, ala a more cohesive auction house. There are positives when you can count on 100% of your user base having internet access.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054568]"I'm sorry but no matter how much you know the actual definition and purpose of DRM and are able to separate it from an online service provided by Blizzard I am in fact right let me just keep parroting myself over and over" Yeah, guess what, you can't play WoW without being on Blizzard's servers either. Is that DRM? No, that's how the [B]game is designed.[/B][/QUOTE]That doesn't wave a magical wand that somehow makes something not DRM. By it's nature not being able to play WoW without being on Blizzard's server is DRM because it is a way to limit the consumers access to the game in ways that the provider does not desire. While it is ok with WoW because it is an MMO, Diablo 3 is a game that can be playing single player with the option of multiplayer, and the consumer should have access to a single player game without being online if they wish.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054626]the consumer should have access to a single player game without being online if they wish.[/QUOTE] This is where you and I part ways. I believe it should be up to the developers on how their game works. If consumers as a whole don't like it, they should refrain from buying the game.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36054617]I think you're honestly right. This is (unfortunately) the direction the industry is going as a whole, and I think it is the direction Blizzard is going to begin to go. I think they are trying to play off of this though, as there are benefits to always being online, ala a more cohesive auction house. There are positives when you can count on 100% of your user base having internet access.[/QUOTE] They have been "going in this direction" for decades. Almost the entirety of Blizzard's design ethos is built on the idea of social gaming. Now that they have the systems in place and the infrastructure to support those systems they chose Diablo 3 to be their flagship "always on" title. And what do you mean "play this off"? There are very real, tangible benefits to an always online system, and for me and [B]literally everyone I have played[/B] with the benefits outweigh the negatives by far. [QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054626] By it's nature not being able to play WoW without being on Blizzard's server is DRM because it is a way to limit the consumers access to the game in ways that the provider does not desire.[/QUOTE] Okay so you really have no idea what you are talking about on this subject thank you for clarifying.

Here's my consensus. Blizzard, by design, established the system. Does it act as DRM? Yes. Is the intent to restrict your usage? No. Yeah, I, too, would like true offline mode. But there are a couple of scenarios I can envision, having played the game, where having no access to other people or the auction house that would be less than ideal. If it's really a big deal for you? Fine, nobody's making you buy the game. If you did buy the game, you should have done so knowing that there'd be online limitations. But let's be serious, this is 2012. The one day you're caught with your internet down and you can't play Diablo, sure that's inconvenient but if you absolutely need to play Diablo that day then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure you have other games. Right now, the biggest problem I see with Diablo is the servers. They aren't really reliable and I can't play with my friends without some amount of lag. But I really don't think the supposed DRM is as big a problem as everyone is making it out to be.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054668]And what do you mean "play this off"? There are very real, tangible benefits to an always online system, and for me and [B]literally everyone I have played[/B] with the benefits outweigh the negatives by far. .[/QUOTE] Wow, it's amazing how your reading and comprehension abilities go out the window when you see someone agreeing with someone you disagree with. Play off of the DRM, not play off. I love how you "quoted me" wrong. I said there were benefits for having a 100% of your user base always online.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054668] Okay so you really have no idea what you are talking about on this subject thank you for clarifying.[/QUOTE] Don't argue semantics with me if you have no idea what you are talking about. It is DRM by definition, plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054699]Don't argue semantics with me if you have no idea what you are talking about. It is DRM by definition, plain and simple.[/QUOTE] Nope. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;36054687]Here's my consensus. Blizzard, by design, established the system. Does it act as DRM? Yes. Is the intent to restrict your usage? No. Yeah, I, too, would like true offline mode. But there are a couple of scenarios I can envision, having played the game, where having no access to other people or the auction house that would be less than ideal. If it's really a big deal for you? Fine, nobody's making you buy the game. If you did buy the game, you should have done so knowing that there'd be online limitations. But let's be serious, this is 2012. The one day you're caught with your internet down and you can't play Diablo, sure that's inconvenient but if you absolutely need to play Diablo that day then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure you have other games. Right now, the biggest problem I see with Diablo is the servers. They aren't really reliable and I can't play with my friends without some amount of lag. But I really don't think the supposed DRM is as big a problem as everyone is making it out to be.[/QUOTE] This, all of this. There are benefits to always online, there are negatives The fact that you can't play without an internet connection is a negative It's [B]not [/B]intentional DRM.

It seems as if no one in this thread actually read the article or the posts that Blizzard has made. The RPS article didn't have any sort of "confirmation" in it aside from Blizzard stating that they were looking into things. At the time they hadn't made any sort of official statement about the issues, though they have now. [quote]We've been taking the situation extremely seriously from the start, and have done everything possible to verify how and in what circumstances these compromises are occurring. Despite the claims and theories being made, we have yet to find any situations in which a person's account was not compromised through traditional means of someone else logging into their account through the use of their password. While the authenticator isn't a 100% guarantee of account security, we have yet to investigate a compromise report in which an authenticator was attached beforehand. If your account has been hacked, please view the previous post for information on contacting our support department.[/quote] [url]http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149619846?page=29#571[/url] ---------- Basically, none of this is Blizzard's fault at all. As usual, it all comes down to user error, not an actual game exploit/hack.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36054696]Wow, it's amazing how your reading and comprehension abilities go out the window when you see someone agreeing with someone you disagree with. Play off of the DRM, not play off. I love how you "quoted me" wrong. I said there were benefits for having a 100% of your user base always online.[/QUOTE] Sorry replying to two different threads at once and missed two letters in your post :(. Has nothing to do with your post bub just trying to have a conversation here. Relax a bit.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054759]Nope. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] This, all of this. There are benefits to always online, there are negatives The fact that you can't play without an internet connection is a negative It's [B]not [/B]intentional DRM.[/QUOTE] Wow. So you are going to rate me dumb and just plug your ears and tell me it's not DRM and then turn around and say "well it's not intentional DRM". Newsflash. Unintentional DRM is still DRM.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;36054687]Here's my consensus. Blizzard, by design, established the system. Does it act as DRM? Yes. Is the intent to restrict your usage? No.[/quote] I would honestly have to disagree here. I'm sure keeping most of the content on servers that could easily be stored on the users computer, was done at least in part for additional security against piracy. If you remove the story from the single player, you remove a big incentive for pirates to pirate the game, no? I'm not saying it was the only reason, there are many benefits to this concept, but do you really think they didn't consider the security advantages to this in regards to piracy? [quote]If it's really a big deal for you? Fine, nobody's making you buy the game. If you did buy the game, you should have done so knowing that there'd be online limitations.[/QUOTE] I agree here.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36054840]Wow. So you are going to rate me dumb and just plug your ears and tell me it's not DRM and then turn around and say "well it's not intentional DRM". Newsflash. Unintentional DRM is still DRM.[/QUOTE] You're doing literally the same thing. I bring you the definition of DRM, and you say it's wrong. And just keep parroting your wrong definition that anything that prevents you from playing the game is DRM. I rated you dumb because you make bad posts. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Funcoot;36054857]I would honestly have to disagree here. I'm sure keeping most of the content on servers that could easily be stored on the users computer, was done at least in part for additional security against piracy. If you remove the story from the single player, you remove a big incentive for pirates to pirate the game, no? I'm not saying it was the only reason, there are many benefits to this concept, but do you really think they didn't consider the security advantages to this in regards to piracy?[/QUOTE] I think they came up with this entire framework and game design integration from the get go, as an expansion on previous offered services stretching all the way back to the original battlenet, and it just so happens to also be a convenient way to limit the piracy of your game. This is backed up in interviews given by developers who state that while it was not the intent to limit people to play the game, the services act in such a way that piracy is severely limited. So while I'd say they considered it, it seems like it was an "after the fact" thing. No part of the systems suggest that they were implemented specifically as a DRM feature.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36054932]DRM[/QUOTE] Psst, you're arguing about a definition. It takes only a couple seconds to google search a phrase and find the correct definition. And you have obviously not taken the time to do so.

The definition clearly states "with the intent of limit[ing] the use of digital content and devices after sale." It is "DRM." It is not the widely-accepted definition of DRM as an antipiracy maneuver. It's an anti-cheating measure. And it accomplishes a lot of other things by design. Let me quote some stuff [QUOTE]Users and critics are quick to draw comparisons to Ubisoft’s aborted use of must-remain-connected-to-the-internet DRM, but Diablo 3 is really very different. To begin with, it helps if you think of Diablo 3 as an online game. In fact, think of Diablo 3 as an MMO, like World of Warcraft or Star Wars: The Old Republic. Unlike Diablo 2 or other offline games, all of your D3 characters reside in the cloud — in one of Blizzard’s huge database servers, just like your WoW character. Every time you loot or equip an item, that change is automatically saved to Blizzard’s database. Because of this, your characters will survive a hard disk crash, and they’re accessible from any internet-connected computer — you can log into D3 from a friend’s computer (or your office computer) and continue from where you left off. Once you actually log in, Diablo’s gameplay is a piece of seamless mastery. Joining a friend’s game takes one click — and then porting directly to them takes one more. All your characters share a single item stash. With the BattleTag and Real ID systems, you can set up a new game with two or three clicks — and of course, like SC2 and WoW, you can chat to any of your friends, no matter which game they’re currently playing, from the chat window. None of this would be possible without permanent Battle.net connectivity.[/QUOTE] It has a bunch of good features that go along with it. Steam is DRM too, why does nobody complain about that? Offline mode only works when you have an expected downtime. [QUOTE]One of the biggest problems with offline games is that all of the game logic and game saves must be stored locally. Game saves are historically very, very easy to crack — outfitting your character with a full set of end-game legendary items can be as simple as loading up a hex editor and changing a few values. With decompilation and memory interrogation hacking, a game’s inner workings — boss mechanics, loot generation, and so on — can be laid bare. In offline-only games, these factors aren’t a big issue — but in Diablo 2, which featured offline and online play, so much data was available in the game client that hacked characters and map hacks were rife.[/QUOTE] Blizzard learned their lesson in Diablo 2. It's more ideal from their point of view to have always-on DRM. And then there's this. [QUOTE]The real-money auction house is Blizzard’s attempt to monetize (and legalize) the rampant, gray/black market buying of gold and items from “Chinese gold farmers” using real money. Similar approaches at stemming gray/black market trading have been tried before — most notably, Eve allows you to buy your monthly subscription with in-game currency — but Diablo 3′s real money auction house is by far the highest-profile attempt yet. The intricacies of virtual world economies are beyond the scope of this story, but put it this way: It is actually more efficient for someone in China (or another developing country) to farm gold in WoW and sell it to rich Westerners, than to work in manufacture or agriculture.[/QUOTE] Finally [QUOTE]Blizzard could make it so that you could download a complete version of Diablo 3 for offline play, but a) that would give hackers easier access to data that Blizz would rather keep locked up; b) the ability to continually fine-tune the game after launch is very desirable.[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/129688-why-diablo-3s-always-online-drm-is-a-good-thing/2[/url] It is, by definition, DRM. It is not an attempt to fuck the end-user - in fact, they provide services that appeal to the end user if they purchase the game.

[QUOTE]It is not the widely-accepted definition of DRM as an antipiracy maneuver.[/QUOTE] Which is what I was saying. Specifically the parts of my multiple posts where I specifically mention piracy.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36055242]Which is what I was saying. Specifically the parts of my multiple posts where I specifically mention piracy.[/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fact that you explicitly stated that it wasn't DRM and that anyone who calls it DRM has no idea what they are talking about.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36055242]Which is what I was saying. Specifically the parts of my multiple posts where I specifically mention piracy.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Raidyr;36054345]it's clearly not DRM.[/QUOTE] You better have a fixie because most bikes don't work in reverse.

I guess I fucked up and misused the term DRM when I specifically meant counter-piracy measures. My bad. Sorry for being a dick in this thread. Obviously I'm wrong. I'll agree that the online parts of Diablo 3 are DRM, but I'll disagree they were implemented specifically to counter pirates.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36055387]DRM in the sense that it wasn't created to counter piracy, not DRM in the sense that it's Blizzard controlling the product. Obviously Blizzard is controlling the product because [I]I specifically outlined that in my posts. [/I] Holy shit.[/QUOTE] It is still a form of always online DRM considering otherwise I could potentially just copy the game and give it to anyone. You'll be hard pressed to tell me that Blizzard would have intended for that to be possible otherwise.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;36055387]DRM in the sense that it wasn't created to counter piracy, not DRM in the sense that it's Blizzard controlling the product. Obviously Blizzard is controlling the product because [I]I specifically outlined that in my posts. [/I] Holy shit.[/QUOTE] Duuude, it WAS partly intended as a DRM. [URL]http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/01/diablo-3-cannot-be-played-offline/[/URL] Read the last part of that interview with Senior Producer Alex Mayberry.