• Al-Shabab militant group uses Donald Trump in propaganda film
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[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49446972]They already believe that everyone else hates them, or that Western countries are led by a Jewish conspiracy against Muslims anyway. I don't see what Trump accomplishes other than giving a slightly more solid backdrop to a sentiment which already existed. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] Jihadists had already been leading armies of tens of thousands, destabilizing multiple countries, and carrying out hundreds of terror attacks before Trump every showed up on the scene.[/QUOTE] The thing is before any evidence isis had of the "holy war" was pretty week, they had to rely on propaganda and misinformation, outright lies. But here comes trump, with his ideas about concentration camps, and he and his fanbase gives isis all the propaganda they need on a silver plate. You thought isis was scary when their marketing campaign was based off of lies? Imagine what would happen if the "us vs them" started becoming true.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447018]I'm not denying that. I accept it completely. Trump is yet another piece in the Islamist puzzle of conspiracy theory that they can use to demonize the vile materialist Western pussified Jew-dogs. You're acting like he's some sort of Antichrist figure who's going to engender a huge "backlash" that wasn't already in full force. I guess its a difference of emphasis. Like I said, Bush has already accomplished everything that you think Trump is responsible for.[/QUOTE] I don't think he is the Antichrist. I do think he is helping fuel radicalism with his rhetoric. I don't think his words are going to cause a massive and sudden swell of terrorism, but he is contributing to it.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49446972]They already believe that everyone else hates them, or that Western countries are led by a Jewish conspiracy against Muslims anyway. I don't see what Trump accomplishes other than giving a slightly more solid backdrop to a sentiment which already existed. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] Jihadists had already been leading armies of tens of thousands, destabilizing multiple countries, and carrying out hundreds of terror attacks before Trump every showed up on the scene.[/QUOTE] Because it is not about [I]what they believe[/I], but [I]what they can convince the people they are trying to recruit.[/I] Having a frontrunner presidential candidate openly crusading against Muslims as a demographic makes it much, much easier to convince other Muslims that joining ISIS is truly the only recourse left to them. While anti-Semitic sentiment may be strong throughout the Middle East, and while many of the more conservative Muslims may take issue with the potential of a female world leader, nothing offends and alienates a wider audience than a major world leader (or potential world leader) outright campaigning to effectively ban the Islamic faith. Trump is several orders of magnitude more dangerous in his rhetoric than any other single person because of the scope of what he's proposed, his position as a frontrunner presidential candidate, the worldwide exposure he's received because of it, and the mass support he's received as a result of it.
[QUOTE=da space core;49447033]The thing is before any evidence isis had of the "holy war" was pretty week, they had to rely on propaganda and misinformation, outright lies. But here comes trump, with his ideas about concentration camps, and he and his fanbase gives isis all the propaganda they need on a silver plate. You thought isis was scary when their marketing campaign was based off of lies? Imagine what would happen if the "us vs them" started becoming true.[/QUOTE] Then we'll have to just wait for the coming outpouring of support that Trump is going to cause for the jihadist cause. Millions of previously moderate Muslims are now going to fly to Syria or plan homegrown attacks because they're afraid of a hypothetical presidency. I won't hold my breath. This is essentially what you're saying. That Trump is going to cause some new phenomenon that wasn't already happening because he's a more concrete manifestation of anti-Muslim sentiment in the West. But in order for people to become jihadis in the first place they already had more than enough "evidence" to support their claims of The House of Islam vs the House of War. They don't need an actual figure in the form of Trump because they already believed the West to be a Zionist conspiracy out to get them. And, like I said, Bush was already the exact same figure. A redneck Christian demagogue who restricted civil liberties for Muslims and tortured them in special camps. Trump would just be more of what they already have.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447054]Then we'll have to just wait for the coming outpouring of support that Trump is going to cause for the jihadist cause. Millions of previously moderate Muslims are now going to fly to Syria or plan homegrown attacks because they're afraid of a hypothetical presidency. I won't hold my breath. This is essentially what you're saying. [/QUOTE] Literally no one is saying this.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447054]Then we'll have to just wait for the coming outpouring of support that Trump is going to cause for the jihadist cause. Millions of previously moderate Muslims are now going to fly to Syria or plan homegrown attacks because they're afraid of a hypothetical presidency. I won't hold my breath. This is essentially what you're saying. That Trump is going to cause some new phenomenon that wasn't already happening because he's a more concrete manifestation of anti-Muslim sentiment in the West. But in order for people to become jihadis in the first place they already had more than enough "evidence" to support their claims of The House of Islam vs the House of War. They don't need an actual figure in the form of Trump because they already believed the West to be a Zionist conspiracy out to get them. And, like I said, Bush was already the exact same figure. A redneck Christian demagogue who restricted civil liberties for Muslims and tortured them in special camps. Trump would just be more of what they already have.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying that Trump is going to suddenly make all Muslims radicals, merely that his rhetoric empowers the ISIS propaganda machine and allows them to reach out and potentially convert many more people to their brand of Islamic extremism than they previously were. As it stands right now, .03% of Muslims are involved in extremist organizations. However, the CIA estimates that a total of 1% of the total Islamic population is [I]at risk[/I] of becoming radicalized dependent on the geopolitical and socioeconomic conditions they are faced with. That is a whopping total of 16,000,000 people at risk of recruitment by extremist organizations, whether that be as fighters, logistical support, tacticians, propagandists, or even just willing citizens of their "state." Trump's lunacy won't suddenly make all those folks tip over the edge, unless he wildly escalates his hateful rhetoric into orchestrating a full-on Holocaust-inspired Muslim genocide, but we are dealing with a huge potential figure here, and even if the strengthened propaganda machines of ISIS as a result of his rhetoric are able to sieze an additional fraction of a percent, it could seriously expand their powerbase and general support. I doubt we're talking about [I]millions[/I] of additional supporters here, but thousands? Tens of thousand, even? This isn't something to be casually brushed aside. Donald Trump, in addition to being a hateful clown, is a national security risk. His rhetoric is breathing [I]truth[/I] into ISIS's propaganda. It will allow them to target a wider audience, to sway more people more easily. It's absurd to think that all Muslims are going to pack a bag and march to join the new caliphate because of this, but it's naive to think that some won't. As said again and again, Trump is not just a single voice in an empty room. He is everywhere, and his support is massive, and seemingly built directly off the back of his rhetoric against Muslims, and other minorities.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447054]And, like I said, Bush was already the exact same figure. A redneck Christian demagogue who restricted civil liberties for Muslims and tortured them in special camps. Trump would just be more of what they already have.[/QUOTE] And like we have already tried to explain you're missing the point by not seeing the differences between the two. Bush was always ostensibly against militant Muslims of disparate Arab and the occasional non-Arab groups. It's true that his administration (and in fairness the Obama administration) has played pretty fast and loose with who exactly they deem terrorists but waging war on Islam itself was never the policy where as this is the thing Trump is trumpeting. It's the difference between attacking Jihadists who are already dyed in the wool radicals and the general population that includes, however small the percentage, groups of people who could be radicalized by propaganda like this. This rhetoric and the populist support of it didn't exist before Trump. You had the occasional Republican representative or senator spoutin off some stupid shit about Muslims but it didn't have the sheer publicity that Trump enjoys. Up until now America could maintain the narrative that we were against radical, militant Muslims waging wars from caves and basements. Jihadists could always sell the false narrative that America is waging a war against Islam itself and see success with that line of propaganda. But Trump with his rhetoric and the people who cheer as he announces his absurd stances towards Muslims are making that false narrative a reality. They are fulfilling the jihadist image of America as being anti-Muslim when in reality we are and should be anti-jihadist.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49447102]Nobody is saying that Trump is going to suddenly make all Muslims radicals, merely that his rhetoric empowers the ISIS propaganda machine and allows them to reach out and potentially convert many more people to their brand of Islamic extremism than they previously were. As it stands right now, .03% of Muslims are involved in extremist organizations. However, the CIA estimates that a total of 1% of the total Islamic population is [I]at risk[/I] of becoming radicalized dependent on the geopolitical and socioeconomic conditions they are faced with. That is a whopping total of 16,000,000 people at risk of recruitment by extremist organizations, whether that be as fighters, logistical support, tacticians, propagandists, or even just willing citizens of their "state." Trump probably won't suddenly make all those folks tip over the edge, unless he wildly escalates his hateful rhetoric into orchestrating a full-on Holocaust-inspired Muslim genocide, but we are dealing with a huge potential figure here, and even if the strengthened propaganda machines of ISIS as a result of his rhetoric are able to sieze an additional fraction of a percent, it could seriously expand their powerbase and general support. I doubt we're talking about [I]millions[/I] of additional supporters here, but thousands? Tens of thousand, even? This isn't something to be casually brushed aside. Donald Trump, in addition to being a hateful clown, is a national security risk.[/QUOTE] I guess this marks the gap between us. I don't think jihadis need concrete examples to convince them and you seem to. Their own ideology is enough to do the job. A more interesting question is this: why does Trump get all the support that he gets?
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447131]I guess this marks the gap between us. I don't think jihadis need concrete examples to convince them and you seem to. Their own ideology is enough to do the job. A more interesting question is this: why does Trump get all the support that he gets?[/QUOTE] Violent Jihadists [I]don't just exist,[/I] dude! They are [I]created[/I]. You seem to be under the impression that when a Muslim baby is born, it raises a fist to Allah and says, "I will kill for you." Propaganda is not about convincing extremists to continue being extremists, it is about convincing citizens to [I]become[/I] extremists, to [I]join[/I] with an extremist faction in defense of a twisted notion of their faith and culture. Outright lies, misinformation, and repetitive appeals to duty and religion can pull in the gullible and the troubled and the naive, those already seriously at risk of radicalization, but propaganda based on [I]truth?[/I] That hits much harder across a wider audience, and is inherently more effective. Why is so hard for you to believe that a man with millions of ardent supporters openly declaring on an international stage, to cheers and applause, that Muslims should be banned from America is something that would alienate and outrage the entire Muslim community, and even cause those on the fringes of extremism to tip over the edge? ISIS's entire objective is to cultivate a mentality of exclusion, of Muslims vs The World. Trump is directly playing into that by trying to cultivate a mentality of The World vs Muslims. Donald Trump is empowering Islamic extremism, and the victims of this are not just the innocent Muslim population at large, but the entire damn world.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447131]I guess this marks the gap between us. I don't think jihadis need concrete examples to convince them and you seem to. Their own ideology is enough to do the job. A more interesting question is this: why does Trump get all the support that he gets?[/QUOTE] There has been a vocal minority of people waiting for someone in Trumps position (wealthy celebrity running for President) to say the firebrand things he says. Luckily he will never become president so we don't have to deal with the real-world ramifications of his nonsense. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] A few people get caught up in the ideology early, particularly the people on the "front lines" in places like Ethiopia, Kenya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan etc. But the people flying from Minnesota and London and France and Munich to fight for the caliphate? This was the work of propaganda.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49447145]Violent Jihadists [I]don't just exist,[/I] dude! They are [I]created[/I]. You seem to be under the impression that when a Muslim baby is born, it raises a fist to Allah and says, "I will kill for you."[/QUOTE] No what the fuck? People are convinced by theological arguments. I suggesting reading Qutb and Mawdudi. Their rhetoric has existed a lot longer than Trump has, and its the same thing that makes people take up arms today. You don't seem to be giving Muslims very much credit. Apparently they're just stupid desert bumpkins who are easily tricked by dumb videos about Trump. They couldn't possibly be convinced by actual theological arguments about their religion. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] [quote]Propaganda is not about convincing extremists to continue being extremists, it is about convincing citizens to [I]become[/I] extremists, to [I]join[/I] with an extremist faction in defense of a twisted notion of their faith and culture. Outright lies, misinformation, and repetitive appeals to duty and religion can pull in the gullible and the troubled and the naive, those already seriously at risk of radicalization, but propaganda based on [I]truth?[/I] That hits much harder across a wider audience, and is inherently more effective.[/quote] You frame the Islamists as "the gullible and the troubled and the naive," but who are they really? Disproportionately well educated people who are usually middle class or better. Like I said, you're selling these people very short. Look at the biographies of the 9/11 hijackers if you don't believe me. This is very well documented. Peasant farmers don't become jihadists.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447178]No what the fuck? People are convinced by theological arguments. I suggesting reading Qutb and Mawdudi. Their rhetoric has existed a lot longer than Trump has, and its the same thing that makes people take up arms today. You don't seem to be giving Muslims very much credit. Apparently they're just stupid desert bumpkins who are easily tricked by dumb videos about Trump. They couldn't possibly be convinced by actual theological arguments about their religion. [editline]3rd January 2016[/editline] You frame the Islamists as "the gullible and the troubled and the naive," but who are they really? Disproportionately well educated people who are usually middle class or better. Like I said, you're selling these people very short. Look at the biographies of the 9/11 hijackers if you don't believe me. This is very well documented. Peasant farmers don't become jihadists.[/QUOTE] My good and gracious God above, grant me the patience to survive this obtuse, dishonest goofball. No, theological arguments are [I]not[/I] the sole factor of radicalization. That is absurd. That is wildly naive and inaccurate. Sociopolitical factors are a huge influence, a massive factor! Do you have any idea how much of ISIS's propaganda magazine, Dabiq, is allocated to world politics? [I]Most[/I] of it! They are obsessive about collecting and sharing the events on the world stage with their people. How can you not see the impact that America being plausibly billed as a nation [I]waging war against Islam itself[/I] will have on the people at risk of radicalization? As to your fucking ludicrous assertion that I think Muslims are all "stupid desert bumpkins," I am just flabbergasted. You really think that line of bull is going to fly here? Here I've been, this entire thread, extolling the sophistication and brilliance, however evil it might be, of the strategists within extremist organizations, and you're going to honestly sit there and try to insinuate that silliness? Get real, and get your shit together.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447178] You don't seem to be giving Muslims very much credit. Apparently they're just stupid desert bumpkins who are easily tricked by dumb videos about Trump. They couldn't possibly be convinced by actual theological arguments about their religion.[/QUOTE] Quite the opposite. I believe militant Islam is better at playing the game than we are at the moment.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447178] You frame the Islamists as "the gullible and the troubled and the naive," but who are they really? [B]Disproportionately well educated people who are usually middle class or better[/B]. Like I said, you're selling these people very short.[/QUOTE] This is so wrong I dont even know where to begin If they are so well "educated", why on earth would they believe the lies of terrorist groups enough to join them? (in terms of history and world views) Understand that unfortunately many middle eastern governments have little to no separation of religion and state, so the media is entirely controlled and censored by the government and access to higher education is also often limited for stupid reasons. Frankly I credit the internet for being the one free unrestricted access to the outer world, until ISIS showed up with their propaganda there too. and tell me another thing. if people were so "well off" in the middle class, why would they want to join a ragtag terrorist group? what purpose does it serve them? In fact, it seems that ISIS gets people from poverty to join them, and someone isnt poor, then ISIS makes them so. [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/isis-territory-taxes-recruitment-syria/403426/[/url]
Furthermore, just to reiterate what should be an obvious point: you do not have to be [I]stupid, poor, or uneducated[/I] to be gullible, naive, or troubled. You do not have to be an idiot to become an extremist. You only need to be convinced. The right argument, in the right light, at the right time, with the right evidence may be all it takes to push somebody who is already teetering over the edge. Some people are more at risk of this than others. ISIS understands this. They have an incredibly sophisticated understanding of sociology, psychology, the factors of influence, modern technology, information networks, politics, theology, history, contemporary events, etc. Their propagandists and recruitment officers work targets over months and years, both with impersonal mass media campaigns, and with direct contact relationships over social media platforms. They break down the objections and reservations and concerns of their targets with the subtle and targeted efficiency of a trained psychiatrist, an expert salesman, a close friend and confidant. They are methodical, calculating, and careful. They are [I]brilliant[/I], and not to be underestimated in any capacity. Donald Trump gives them an incredibly powerful tool for their arsenal in this regard. It is an argument that can make a powerful impact on anybody with a sense of Muslim faith and cultural identity, and is indeed so damning that it even offends and outrages those well outside the targeted demographics! Even if a person would never in a million years actually become radicalized themself, what self-identifying Muslims isn't going to read Trump's comments, watch his speeches, and not feel fear, indignation, alienation, even outrage? Now imagine just how powerful that can be against somebody who already has serious reservations about the West? Somebody who already feels threatened? Somebody already at risk for radicalization? Man, that you are continuing to discount the impact Trump is having on the global stage right now is just... confusing. Are you [I]trying[/I] to be dense? [I]Trying[/I] to be ignorant? I'm just so damn confused about how you can so casually dismiss something this apparently obvious and dangerous.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49447007]We can [I]assume [/I]that Muslims in danger of becoming radicalized assume that Americans hate Muslims but we don't really have anything quantifiable to base that off of. At the very least the idea was deniable up until Trump started talking about concentration camps and ID badges and getting a standing ovation. I don't see why you and others in this thread are so eager to deny the propaganda advantages of having a Western leader buy into the radicals strategy with this us vs them rhetoric. It just seems like you are burying your head in the sand tbh.[/QUOTE] He never said concentration camps or ID badges. Where the fuck are you getting your politics from if you heard Trump proposed Concentration camps and people applauded in a standing ovation? He wanted like a census for muslims(which isnt right anyways, no one else is required to put religion down on the census) Responding to multiple posts, but both you and BDA are treating Trump as if hes the "Trump" card in getting more ISIS fighters and radicals. As if his clip, his existence, is the straw that broke the camels back. Trumps 20 second clip in a 51 minute video NONE OF US have seen mind you, is such a horrible thing. Do you not realize literally anything they have used for clips involving Obama are 100x way worse for getting people? You know the guy whos allowing soldiers to come to their countries and fight? You are trying very hard to just make Trump out as some horrible monster, hes a joke, a clown. I would think in that 51 minute video(btw they make these videos like fucking daily, try googling Jihadology and see the extent and length of this videos) that Trumps 20 second clip, would be some of the least important. Like you both treating him as Satan himself yet you cant even tell me the context the clip was used in? What if it was a "light" part of the propaganda? As in not something major important to hook people, it could have been "Heres what some politicians propose" *20 seconds later the near hour of footage continues* They use any politican ever, Trumps not a big deal at all. The fact you REALLY think Trump is the best thing for extremists since invading Iraq then I dont know how to save you. Are you going to ignore an ongoing war thats been going on under Obama for 8 years with no end in sight? How about all the American companies/politicans who buy fucking land there all the time? People like Dick Cheney. How about all the drone strikes we do? How about any footage ever from any American soldiers in those wars they could get their hands on? How about literally any other country that has allied us during it at all? How about anything being said from Europe and the refugee crisis and the current muslim stigma? But no, its Trump. Trump is the worst offender to ISIS and extremist propaganda. Also who is denying anything involving the propaganda Raidyr? We all finished 3rd grade, we know how propaganda works, and know they would obviously use any enemies that help their cause when it comes to propaganda. People are just telling you Trump is not the hail mary these extremists need. Its a 20 second clip in a 51 minute long propaganda video. Dude people on fucking social media any ISIS member could get say way worse things against muslims lol. You can easily make it seem way more like a whole population is hating Muslims by just using the actual population of people. Hell just google "person being hateful to muslims" No one is denying trump cant have an effect, but god damn, some people are legit so delusional thinking that hes the worst one in this. You completely just ignore any logic or the history of the past like 8 years.
The difference between random quotes of people on Social media being hateful to Muslims and a world leader, or frontrunner candidate to become a world leader, arguing to ban all Muslims from America is fucking immense, dude. You simply aren't seeing the gravity of his position or the weight of his words. Trump is not dangerous because he doesn't like Muslims, he is dangerous because he doesn't like Muslims enough to outright suggest banning them, and has [I]15,000,000 people cheering wildly for it.[/I] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t1p2K-7Eww[/media] Yes, Donald Trump is a fuckin' clown, but he's a fuckin' clown with fifteen million fans who support blatant persecution of Muslims to such an extent that they want to force them to wear special ID badges, deport them en masse, put surveillance on Mosques, execute the families of known extremists, and even outright fucking [I]ban[/I] the religion Muslims from being allowed in the country. That is incredibly damning. That is incredibly serious. Yes, the active bombing campaign is doing no goddamn favors. Yes, no Western politician is safe from being used as fodder for ISIS's recruitment machine. Many Western politicians widely support a war against ISIS and Islamic extremism. However, only one major politician is suggesting fighting to end [I]Islam itself.[/I] Donald Trump [I]is[/I] a fucking monster. He is terrifying, his supporters are terrifying, the impact he is having on the Muslim community is terrifying, the possibility for exploitation from ISIS to grow their powerbase is terrifying. I absolutely 100% stand by my belief that Donald Trump is the worst thing to happen to US/Muslim relations since the invasion of Iraq. If you think that's stupid or unreasonable, that's your prerogative.
Plenty of reasons to be critical of Trump but the opinions and actions of terrorists shouldn't be factored in. Hilary, Obama and Bush have all probably all appeared in some propaganda/educational videos created by Islamic radicals. Most terrorism in the US is committed by right wing radicals so I imagine they probably use Obama and Hilary alot.
[QUOTE]racism, police brutality and anti-Muslim sentiment are rife in the US. [/QUOTE] Of course, they have a point - but that's like saying: [QUOTE]violence, torture, sexual abuse and anti-Western sentiment are rife among Al-Shabab. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49447018]I'm not denying that. I accept it completely. Trump is yet another piece in the Islamist puzzle of conspiracy theory that they can use to demonize the vile materialist Western pussified Jew-dogs. You're acting like he's some sort of Antichrist figure who's going to engender a huge "backlash" that wasn't already in full force. I guess its a difference of emphasis. Like I said, Bush has already accomplished everything that you think Trump is responsible for.[/QUOTE] The issue is they don't have to shape or label or "mistranslate" Trump's dialog, like they usually do. While that may mean nothing to someone living in the US who will never leave, it does means something to a doctor or worker traveling to Africa and meeting people whom have seen nothing but this.
I think arguing about if Trump is providing useful propaganda for terrorists is missing the larger point; it doesn't really matter what the impact of Trump's speech is, he's free to speak it. Moreover, those that become radicalized because of what people express through free speech have no place in western society anyway.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49440048]I, and just about everybody else with the barest modicum of common sense, have been saying this would happen for months. Years, even, if we're not talking about Trump specifically. Persecution of Muslims as a whole directly feeds into the recruitment efforts of Islamic extremist groups, who are able to take that fear, anger, and hatred directed towards innocent people and twist it to their own devices by presenting it as proof that the Western world is trying to destroy the Muslim faith. That the "crusaders" in the West (the term that ISIS uses to refer to all opposing non-Islamic forces) are trying to perpetrate a holy war against Islam itself, and that all "good Muslims" have no choice but to fight back if they want to live. The objective of Islamic extremists is to stoke this hatred and distrust of Muslims so that they can create an even greater sense of "us vs them," thus widening their power base. It's [I]"The War on Christmas!"[/I] taken to an extreme, and given real power by the fact that fools like Trump [I]are actually persecuting Muslims.[/I] Donald Trump is empowering ISIS and other extremist organizations with hateful rhetoric. The man is directly contributing to the growth of Islamic extremism by not only failing to distinguish between Islamic extremists and Muslims as a whole, but by directly correlating the two. And the sickest fucking thing about this? Trump, and the goddamn fools who support him, are going to claim this is a sign that they are [I]on the right track![/I] They are going to look at extremist organizations using Trump's hate speech in recruitment videos as evidence that Trump is somehow [I]winning[/I] against them. [I]"Look how much they hate Trump! He's really sticking it to those terrorists!"[/I] Seriously gets my blood boiling just thinking about how backwards people can be in their logic. The strategists at extremist organizations cackle and rub their hands every time that mop-headed shit opens his mouth, and yet we Americans, in all our egocentric vanity, continue failing to see the big picture.[/QUOTE] Self fulfilling prophecies kick ass.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49455967]The difference between random quotes of people on Social media being hateful to Muslims and a world leader, or frontrunner candidate to become a world leader, arguing to ban all Muslims from America is fucking immense, dude. You simply aren't seeing the gravity of his position or the weight of his words. Trump is not dangerous because he doesn't like Muslims, he is dangerous because he doesn't like Muslims enough to outright suggest banning them, and has [I]15,000,000 people cheering wildly for it.[/I] Yes, Donald Trump is a fuckin' clown, but he's a fuckin' clown with fifteen million fans who support blatant persecution of Muslims to such an extent that they want to force them to wear special ID badges, deport them en masse, put surveillance on Mosques, execute the families of known extremists, and even outright fucking [I]ban[/I] the religion Muslims from being allowed in the country. That is incredibly damning. That is incredibly serious. Yes, the active bombing campaign is doing no goddamn favors. Yes, no Western politician is safe from being used as fodder for ISIS's recruitment machine. Many Western politicians widely support a war against ISIS and Islamic extremism. However, only one major politician is suggesting fighting to end [I]Islam itself.[/I] Donald Trump [I]is[/I] a fucking monster. He is terrifying, his supporters are terrifying, the impact he is having on the Muslim community is terrifying, the possibility for exploitation from ISIS to grow their powerbase is terrifying. I absolutely 100% stand by my belief that Donald Trump is the worst thing to happen to US/Muslim relations since the invasion of Iraq. If you think that's stupid or unreasonable, that's your prerogative.[/QUOTE] Dude, come on, the invasion of Iraq was in 2003. A little over 12 years ago. In the span of 12 years, Donald Trump is all of a sudden, THE WORST FACTOR in US/Muslim relations since then? Do you even realize what you are saying? So let me get this straight, you think this. 2003 Invasion of Iraq 12 years of apparently absolutely nothing at all between that, no other politicans being used, no other event, no operation by soldiers, nothing about the stuff neither of us even could know would make it worse because we dont know everything. No countries drastically changed 2015/16 Trump was the very next biggest problem since 2003 concerning US/Muslim relations?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49440048]big picture.[/QUOTE] Big picture? Christ, the big picture is that the people we are riling up are already riled up. They already want blood. Hell, they seem motivated and eager about terrorism. The fact that so many of them are on the edge of turning terrorist, as your first paragraph points out so eloquently, isn't very good evidence for cutting them more slack. It doesn't matter if most of them aren't like this, too many of them are like that. It's straightforward sense that there's something wrong. I don't buy for a second the "The problem is we aren't accommodating enough" argument, because god fucking knows the only nations more accommodating to immigrants of all kinds are in Europe. No other nation in the world has the views of immigration that we have, no other nation treats their foreign born citizens as well as we do. You sad sack of shit, these terrorists organizations were growing Just Fine before Trump started running for president. These are Muslim extremists, they're correlated with Muslims. If it's not too much to ask, it would be great if American Muslims took a much more active role in routing out terrorism, rather than just complain about how fucking mean everybody is being to them. And why are you so afraid of extremist organizations anyways? Your post is so emotional that if taken by itself, ISIS is a literal Saturday Morning Cartoon criminal organization. Grow up. EDIT: For Christs sake, they're angry men in the desert. The greatest weapon they have at their disposal is how willingly they will stab someone in the back for trusting them. They're no threat in a real fight, because they are cowards. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming, awful ban history" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49447150]flying from Minnesota[/QUOTE]Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but I'm going to have to contest this singular point. Most of the people actually caught aiding or trying to aid Daesh are Somalians, they're actually quite easily swayed to do so for cultural reasons rather than propaganda. Somalians in Minnesota are widely disgusted for a variety of reasons, largely their attitude toward others that absolutely has managed to piss off [U]every[/U] single demographic in Minneapolis. I get that we should respect others cultures and a city like Minneapolis is only helped by diversity but that's one culture I wouldn't mind seeing demolished and eradicated. So no, I don't think the Somali volunteers/recruits from Minnesota are influenced by propaganda, instead they're just angry radicals in a city that's extremely tolerant and accommodating and they need some violent outlet for their anger toward that. What better than joining Daesh?
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