Native Italians to live homeless next to refugeeshelter filled with brandnew furniture. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49288731] I'm not arguing natives should get better treatment[/QUOTE] I would. National governments exist entirely to serve the interests of their citizens, especially so in European states where the government is usually obligated to provide a certain standard of living.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49288766]I would. National governments exist entirely to serve the interests of their citizens, especially so in European states where the government is usually obligated to provide a certain standard of living.[/QUOTE] Why did you take his post out of context??? Do we really have to argue semantics now? [QUOTE=TG2;49288759]there were already homeless before the refugees came, but now it's a tragedy?[/QUOTE] And that is the problem. Should've been a "tragedy" from the very beginning

I can't tell if I'm looking at Facepunch or the Daily Mail right now; I've never seen so many anti-immigrant news stories listed on the most Popular Threads at once before. Like, ok Italy just try to solve homelessness (I know it's not that simple) don't turn it into an anti-refugee narrative

[QUOTE=God of Ashes;49288244]fucking thank you[/QUOTE] No. Not thank you. I have personally had a steady and serious interest in helping the homeless in BC. The simple fact we're going to spend more money on 3000-5000 refugees(whilst never knowing how many well really get) in one year than we do on our 10,000+ homeless that live year round on our streets. I'm fucking sick of you people acting like anyone who cares about these things is just doing it as a cover for racism. Fuck off with that. [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Kommodore;49288700]but they treat you no matter what the point is, if you really gave a shit about homeless people you'd be complaining about the cost of the space program and other expenses that are superfluous when held against basic human needs, the fact that the sudden appearance of refugees awakened you to this reality makes you look like an opportunistic tool, that's it[/QUOTE] Hardly. Speak for yourself.

Those Italian homeless should just hop some borders to Germany and pretend to be refugees too. That way everyone's happy. I mean you might as well make the best of the situation right?

[QUOTE=person11;49288795] Like, ok Italy just try to solve homelessness (I know it's not that simple) don't turn it into an anti-refugee narrative[/QUOTE] They have 12% (official so probably higher) unemployment and they're taking in refugees and giving them better treatment than the local homeless. The refugees shouldn't be blamed, the government should be for accepting them.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49288854]They have 12% (official so probably higher) unemployment and they're taking in refugees and giving them better treatment than the local homeless. The refugees shouldn't be blamed, the government should be for accepting them.[/QUOTE] hell it's not even about accepting refugees in the first place, but it's about the reaction and what prompted it (your point still stands)

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49288611]And you support taking in more refugees? [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] They're made for citizens of the country.[/QUOTE] I do.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49288388]Wish I could eat for 50 euros a day.[/QUOTE] was that not because of the company overcharging for food

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49288988]was that not because of the company overcharging for food[/QUOTE] Fazer claims it's restaurant quality, if that's true then that is quite good.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49289123]restaurant could mean anything from mcdonalds to the finest high class restaurant in paris[/QUOTE] That's just nitpicking, it's obvious what they meant there.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49289168]That's just nitpicking, it's obvious what they meant there.[/QUOTE] Is it? Or are you showing confirmation bias?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49289168]That's just nitpicking, it's obvious what they meant there.[/QUOTE] what's obvious? when i think "restaurant" i think of the cheap, 3 dollar place down the street [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] besides it's not like they'd intentionally undersell their product. of course they're going with a term that sounds "quite good" yet is conveniently nondescript

Don't forget that some homeless people choose to stay homeless because they are busy wasting the money they get on booze and drugs.

[QUOTE=Bucketboy;49289542]Don't forget that some homeless people choose to stay homeless because they are busy wasting the money they get on booze and drugs.[/QUOTE] Actually some of them are anarchists who dont want to partake in the system.

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;49288212]where were you for the homeless and the needy before the refugee crisis? did you ever entertain the thought of petitioning your government for a better treatment of the poor? I mean, you sure do love to use them to justify your agenda though[/QUOTE] Before the refugee crisis? Fuck, I was working odd jobs and tended to drop three to five dollars for anyone who needs it. I petitioned my state legislature to look into the possibility of using the Bank of North Dakota to create a statewide Employment Migration program which would effectively move people around the state where their skills and trades are needed and subsidize companies and hotels for housing them while they work, as well as subsidizing water and electric bills to ensure their families wouldn't dig themselves into a hole while their breadwinners were away and working. I have aided religious organizations in my area giveaway food, blankets, and ice fishing heaters to the needy. I have helped several neighbors with their bills, helped them get their prescriptions, when they were otherwise fucked over by their main breadwinner being put into a jail cell for a few weeks for a thing like DUIs or minor drug possession. If some ever needs their roof fixed, but doesn't have the money for it, I'll do it for free just because I'm not a cunt and realize that, hey we live in North Dakota, no need to sit cold in winter. And yes, I do donate to my local homeless shelters and animal welfare shelters. So yeah, before you bark up the wrong tree, I do care about people that are needy and this isn't some new fangled thing for me. I tend to always voice my support for public work programs, the creation of state banks which aid the lower class, and creating efforts to improve our infrastructure similar to the New Deal's Work Progress Administration and Public Works Administration.

[QUOTE=technologic;49288638]Sure we're all complaining that people with anti-refugee views are now using the poor in their countries to 'get across their agenda' but it doesn't mean they don't have a point. Our governments obviously have the funds to help people in need and that much is obvious following the crisis. Why didn't they use the money beforehand to help citizens in economic distress? Why don't they use that money to help them now? You can argue 'oh you didn't care about the homeless/poor before' but that doesn't mean these concerns aren't relevant. Citizens should receive welfare and the homeless rate reduced to 0 before any refugees are given aid. It is very simple.[/QUOTE] I don't know about other countries but here we have lots of programs for homeless people, some pilot projects even involved giving free housing. Homeless people also get unemployment benefits which would involve the government paying for housing, food and insurance but don't claim it. I can't say why most of them don't claim it but the very few I've spoken to (2 to be exact) said that they don't want to and dislike the system so they won't take alms from it either.

'man, the government never helped the poor before accepting these refugees, look at this italian example' - private organisation owns the building the refugees are living in, so this case has not much to do with the government - the government does help the poor, to the extent that it can, in many countries where the government has also taken in refugees, see basic incomes and social welfare. Private organisations also exist that help the poor, as do organisations that help refugees - see volunteer migration centers, charities, soup kitchens, etc. - Low income families are a much harder to fix problem - 70,000 people don't just become poor/rich overnight, but 70,000 people can be displaced from their country overnight, so governments are required to act a lot more urgently in the case of a refugee crisis. - 'stopping people from being poor' is not a problem that can just be 'solved', whereas a refugee crises can, to some extent. - Refugees and the existence of poor families are completely different problems - one is a result of war and humanitarian crises and the other is a result of the economy and unemployment rates.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49288737]Labor movements and charities that cared about the poor existed well before the refugee crisis? Why are you saying this about me?[/QUOTE] Because you're not the only one and the ones in real life that I've seen using the same argument are these "concerned citizens" [t]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151020114821-pegida-protester-quote-graphic-exlarge-169.jpg[/t] Who have a track record of using any social problem to further their agenda and use it as some weird argument against the government. [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=killerteacup;49289714]'man, the government never helped the poor before accepting these refugees, look at this italian example' - private organisation owns the building the refugees are living in, so this case has not much to do with the government - the government does help the poor, to the extent that it can, in many countries where the government has also taken in refugees, see basic incomes and social welfare. Private organisations also exist that help the poor, as do organisations that help refugees - see volunteer migration centers, charities, soup kitchens, etc. - Low income families are a much harder to fix problem - 70,000 people don't just become poor/rich overnight, but 70,000 people can be displaced from their country overnight, so governments are required to act a lot more urgently in the case of a refugee crisis. - 'stopping people from being poor' is not a problem that can just be 'solved', whereas a refugee crises can, to some extent. - Refugees and the existence of poor families are completely different problems - one is a result of war and humanitarian crises and the other is a result of the economy and unemployment rates.[/QUOTE] And lets not forget that both can be worked on since the government is not a single dude making decisions but hundred thousands of people.

[QUOTE=Killuah;49289712]I don't know about other countries but here we have lots of programs for homeless people, some pilot projects even involved giving free housing. Homeless people also get unemployment benefits which would involve the government paying for housing, food and insurance but don't claim it. I can't say why most of them don't claim it but the very few I've spoken to (2 to be exact) said that they don't want to and dislike the system so they won't take alms from it either.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between countries. Here in Germany it seems to be working out really well (costs incurred due to burned down potential refugee homes and shelters and due to Bavaria's interpretation of "efficient" bureaucracy not withstanding), but the state does take care of everyone at least enough to have a basic living. Since it's managed by a private charity (and unless I see one like this one that's government-run), I think I'll point to the Italian people for not treating their homeless equally well by privately funding shelters for them too. (It [I]is[/I] a little iffy for the government to not finance rent otherwise instead, [I]assuming they indeed pay the rent in this case in full and that sentence about tax money isn't spin because they don't say what percentage[/I].)

I see Americans and Canadians caring so much about the refugees ruining countries when it barely effects them? Like, I can understand being a little skeptical if you're European (as long as you aren't being a full blown racist) but why do Americans care so much? Like, I kind of care on the basis they're human beings we should be helping them

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;49291837]I see Americans and Canadians caring so much about the refugee crisis when it barely effects them? Like, I can understand being a little skeptical if you're European (as long as you aren't being a full blown racist) but why do Americans care so much? Like, I kind of care on the basis they're human beings we should be helping them[/QUOTE] I care because for 25 years our homeless issues have literally spiralled out of control to a disgusting point. Come to Vancouver and walk down the poorest place in North America and tell me were stupid to be pissed off. There's an estimated 3000-5000 refugees coming here, and we will be spending a lot more on them than we do for the homeless. Now go ahead and do what so many others here have done and insist that THAT is a feigned care. Tell me WHY specifically the people from across the world who don't want to be here(a un poll showed only 6% want to come to Canada) deserve to live in a city that regularly disenfranchises it's own citizens, is incredibly expensive to live in in the first place due primarily to Chinese investment, why do they deserve that when we, and by extension you, literally don't care enough to help the people already here living in a western version of poverty which is still poverty. [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] Like if you say you care about people, then why is it that the refugees get straight up priority over our own homeless

Any situation where refugees/immigrants are taking priority over your own citizens is one that's fucked up. The government should be there to help their own people, not these other shmucks. Not that the refugees shouldn't get any help, but homefront should take priority.

Why can't we help both? [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] 5000 refugees is chump change to take care of in terms of government budgets, you shouldn't really be complaining about them getting care. Petition your government to take care of the homeless people, donate to local charities (I donated to the UN for the refugee crisis), or volunteer. Do I think we should do something about the homeless? Duh. Do I still think we should help refugees? Absolutely.

Because money and resources are limited alda We can't help a homeless guy financially and still help Muhammad the Syrian refugee financially also

[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49291960]Because money and resources are limited alda We can't help a homeless guy financially and still help Muhammad the Syrian refugee financially also[/QUOTE] The sheer amount of resources that go to 5000 refugees in Canada is nothing, barely a drop in the bucket. [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] idk frankly im glad people aren't being shot at in a warzone, some people seem to be a bit unhappy about it though!

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;49291970]The sheer amount of resources that go to 5000 refugees in Canada is nothing, barely a drop in the bucket. [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] idk frankly im glad people aren't being shot at in a warzone, some people seem to be a bit unhappy about it though![/QUOTE] If that's the case then why does no one help the homeless? If it's so cheap why is the poverty in Vancouver so rampant? Why is it persisting and worsening year after year? Refugees are welcome here. But can Canadian tax dollars go to Canadians first please? If we can help both them do so, but were not! We tore down a 10,000 strong tent camp this summer. We're going to house refugees in similar circumstances for a while. How fucking hypocritical is that? Is it wrong to point it out? You sure make it seem so!

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;49291945] idk frankly im glad people aren't being shot at in a warzone, some people seem to be a bit unhappy about it though! [/QUOTE] Politicians are focusing on the refugee crisis and prioritizing foreigners over their own citizens. In all countries they're siphoning resources away from programs for elderly, homeless and disabled to benefit refugees. They don't want to raise taxes (pisses off voters) but want to look like awesome progressive heroes that save refugees. This is irresponsible and upsetting and they'll never suffer for it.

Charity begins at home. That's the way it should always be.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49292261]Politicians are focusing on the refugee crisis and prioritizing foreigners over their own citizens. In all countries they're siphoning resources away from programs for elderly, homeless and disabled to benefit refugees.[/QUOTE] Do you have a lick of evidence to suggest that governments are actually siphoning money that was destined for the elderly, homeless or disabled citizens to give to refugees? Forgive me for being skeptical. It just seems to reek of bullshit.