House Democrats look at taxing the rich for health care - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Chippay;15948964]lankist, you don't have a point. my point is that you need some god damn social contact because you can't understand the value of a human life. your opinions literally depress me and me making fun of you and your previous lauding of "winning an argument" is great fun. not to mention it takes my mind off the fact you're not the 12 year old republican or 18 year old isolated college libertarian i hoped you were[/QUOTE] The value of human life? There's six billion+ people on this planet, do you really think life is all that valuable.

[QUOTE=Chippay;15948964]lankist, you don't have a point. my point is that you need some god damn social contact because you can't understand the value of a human life. your opinions literally depress me and me making fun of you and your previous lauding of "winning an argument" is great fun. not to mention it takes my mind off the fact you're not the 12 year old republican or 18 year old isolated college libertarian i hoped you were[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chippay;15946899]i don't need to prove you wrong because you are wrong your argument is a shitty conservative talking point and you have no actual experience with the system you're belittling. stop embarrassing yourself champ[/QUOTE] Now you're repeating yourself. If you'd like to offer a legitimate argument, do tell.

[QUOTE=RAG Frag;15948989] Lets just look into the future shall we[/QUOTE] The past is always the greatest indication of what will happen in the future, of course, only when a situation is apparently repeating itself.

I do not understand why so many of you believe in the rich poor divide, it is wrong. I know you say people work for their money, and yes that is true to a point, but when someone is rolling around in insurmountable amounts of wealth which could benefit thousands of people rather than becoming another lavish expense. At the end of the day, if you say this is wrong, it is greed, pure greed and want of more, something capitalist die hards get a massive hard on for.

[QUOTE=Lankist;15949054]Now you're repeating yourself. If you'd like to offer a legitimate argument, do tell.[/QUOTE] for someone so intent on internet 'debates' you sure aren't very good at them [editline]11:14PM[/editline] [QUOTE=RichardNixon;15949051]The value of human life? There's six billion+ people on this planet, do you really think life is all that valuable.[/QUOTE] i've been wondering for a while if you're a troll mind filling me in bro?

[quote] I think the proper reply to what I asked is [i]no.[/i] I could give a flying fuck about what you suspect him to believe, and it isn't relevant. [/quote] This can be easily fixed with a sincere clarification. So far my observation of him and his past statements don't show any promise. I could too care less about your sanctimonious attitude. [quote] Wow. I'm guessing "parochial" was the word of the day at your high school, because your use of it is forced. You already said "limited." You don't need to hamfist another word in there. [/quote] Outlooks and knowledge aren't the same thing. [quote] So you [i]don't know what "sophomoric" means.[/i] [/quote] Only if you're extremely inflexible with the use of words. [quote] It's a logical fallacy. You said "GM has filed for bankruptcy protection", ergo "one with common sense would not take their advice." I'm telling you that the "advice" in question needs to be judged objectively, not by it's source.[/QUOTE] Correct, and much can be learned from failure; however in the sense of running a business one would not take the advice that was conducive to said failure. I'm not talking about learning how to get cake baking types from GM.

[QUOTE=HK-100;15949399]This can be easily fixed with a sincere clarification. So far my observation of him and his past statements don't show any promise. I could too care less about your sanctimonious attitude. Outlooks and knowledge aren't the same thing. Only if you're extremely inflexible with the use of words. Correct, and much can be learned from failure; however in the sense of running a business one would not take the advice that was conducive to said failure. I'm not talking about learning how to get cake baking types from GM.[/QUOTE] so saying that single payer would have alleviated GM's financial troubles and allowed them to be more competitive on the market because Rick Wagoner admitted it would "level the playing field" is bad advice simply because GM went bankrupt (due in part to the reason he himself admitted was causing strain on the company, however what he advised never came to pass) right, is this your argument so we should not take advice from a CEO who would like UHC because it would let his company stay alive in the face of healthcare costs, simply because those costs eventually helped make the company go bankrupt it seems to me that perhaps if we had taken his advice, this could have potentially been avoided; do you dispute this?

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;15949032]you realize that the first highway in the US (the Cumberland Road) was built by the federal government [/quote] I wasn't talking about the US and you missed my point that these thign are exclusive to the government, nor do they have to be. [quote] so what's your point. this is splitting at hairs though because this is a buttfucking stupid thing to bring up when the original argument was "I don't like to pay taxes when they just go to people who don't deserve them" when in reality taxes go towards public goods that benefit everyone [/quote] #1: This is a strawman. I my view is that taxes and interactions between people should be voluntary. #2: Taxes helping people is a moot point. My stance on this is clear. Subjugation of the individual through force or emotional guilt is immoral. [quote] I never knew police departments, fire departments, schools, parks, sewer systems, libraries, the military, etc were all private businesses! wow![/QUOTE] Missed the point again Professor Google. It's getting late though, and real life calls. Hopefully you think of a sneer for putting the debate on pause.

[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;15946383]We're forced to do a lot of things in life, especially paying for things we don't want to pay for. Tough. That's just part of being a citizen. If you don't want to pay for anything you don't want to pay for then move to Somalia.[/QUOTE] The "move to Somalia" defense! I love it! Encore! Wait, if I don't want to pay for anything I don't want to pay for? Well, what if I [i]DO[/i] want to pay for something I don't want to pay for?

[QUOTE=HK-100;15949399]Outlooks and knowledge aren't the same thing.[/QUOTE] You could have said "limited knowledge and views" and been done with it. Instead, you were redundant. [QUOTE=HK-100;15949399]Only if you're extremely inflexible with the use of words.[/QUOTE] k so here's how language works we all agree upon definitions of symbols (you know, words n such) so we can communicate using them we have lists of symbols with their commonly agreed upon definitions if your definition of the symbol isn't the common one, and you don't express this explicitly using other symbols whose definitions we still agree upon, you cannot be communicated with you definition of "sophomoric" must suck and you provide no indication of what it is ergo you cannot be communicated with [QUOTE=HK-100;15949399]in the sense of running a business one would not take the advice that was conducive to said failure..[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware it was advice on how to run a major automaker and encompassed all aspects of said major automaker's buisness failures. If you can prove it's bad "advice", you'll actually be saying something. Refusal to do so would imply you [i]can't.[/i] [editline]06:56PM[/editline] [QUOTE=HK-100;15949664]#1: This is a strawman.[/QUOTE] Your entire argument re: GM and this "advice" is a fucking extension of ad hominem!

Poor people are needed. Who does the Rich man hire? The Poor man. Life isn't fair and never will be.

[QUOTE=doommarine23;15949963]Poor people are needed. Who does the Rich man hire? The Poor man. Life isn't fair and never will be.[/QUOTE] what a bad haiku

I know :rimshot:

[QUOTE=Conscript;15941484]What's wrong with taxing the rich? The wealth they hold was ultimately created by the poorer sections of the population anyway.[/QUOTE] ...And that is exactly why enforcing ridiculous taxes on the rich will trickle down and inevitably have an effect on the poor. If the people who make everything you have get taxed even higher, the prices go up. The consumers will feel it by extension. Basic economics right here.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;15950131]...And that is exactly why enforcing ridiculous taxes on the rich will trickle down and inevitably have an effect on the poor. If the people who make everything you have get taxed even higher, the prices go up. The consumers will feel it by extension. Basic economics right here.[/QUOTE] and cutting taxes on the rich trickles down as well right, as we have seen over the past couple years

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;15950181]and cutting taxes on the rich trickles down as well right, as we have seen over the past couple years[/QUOTE] Go on. Explain. Though it just goes to show you how damned we are either way.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;15950181]and cutting taxes on the rich trickles down as well right, as we have seen over the past couple years[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jenkem;15950131]...And that is exactly why enforcing ridiculous taxes on the rich will trickle down and inevitably have an effect on the poor. If the people who make everything you have get taxed even higher, the prices go up. The consumers will feel it by extension. Basic economics right here.[/QUOTE] So then what can we conclude? Capitalism doesn't serve people? [QUOTE=Jenkem;15950193] Though it just goes to show you how damned we are either way.[/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly.

[QUOTE=ThePunisher1;15949089]I do not understand why so many of you believe in the rich poor divide, it is wrong. I know you say people work for their money, and yes that is true to a point, but when someone is rolling around in insurmountable amounts of wealth which could benefit thousands of people rather than becoming another lavish expense. At the end of the day, if you say this is wrong, it is greed, pure greed and want of more, something capitalist die hards get a massive hard on for.[/QUOTE] So, you're trying to say we should make rich people feel guilty with something that is completely subjective to give up something that is absolute?

[QUOTE=Conscript;15950195]So then what can we conclude? Capitalism doesn't serve people?[/quote] Well, neither does communism. Not with the way humanity thinks. Until we can all become like vortigaunts, it will end up in a dictatorship serving only the [I]cabeza tipo[/I].

At the end of the day, if you're seriously injured, a hospital should take care of you, no matter what. You shouldn't get charged an outrageous bill, that throws your family into debt. "They should have had insurance." Insurance companies deny claims millions of times a year, not because the claims aren't reasonable, but because that is how they make their profit. A company shouldn't make a profit by denying people medical care. Anyone who has a job should get affordable insurance no matter what, it should cover every type of injury. It should be government funded, it's the only way we will ever be able to see cheap accessible insurance that everyone can afford. I'm not saying we should tax rich people more, but deny them most of their tax breaks (the ones they don't really deserve). At least the stupid ones, that they don't really deserve. I remember a long time ago some CEO got a tax write off meant for farmers, by planting a tree in his parking lot. Things like that, need to stop. Another one that was in my town, a church pastor tried to write off his new house as part of the church.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;15950429]I'm not saying we should tax rich people more, but deny them most of their tax breaks (the ones they don't really deserve). At least the stupid ones, that they don't really deserve. I remember a long time ago some CEO got a tax write off meant for farmers, by planting a tree in his parking lot. Things like that, need to stop. Another one that was in my town, a church pastor tried to write off his new house as part of the church.[/QUOTE] Reasonable enough.

What we need to do is create a super computer and upload the consciousness of all the poor people into it, leaving the world a better place- run by robots.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;15950429]At the end of the day, if you're seriously injured, a hospital should take care of you, no matter what. You shouldn't get charged an outrageous bill, that throws your family into debt. "They should have had insurance." Insurance companies deny claims millions of times a year, not because the claims aren't reasonable, but because that is how they make their profit. A company shouldn't make a profit by denying people medical care. Anyone who has a job should get affordable insurance no matter what, it should cover every type of injury. It should be government funded, it's the only way we will ever be able to see cheap accessible insurance that everyone can afford. I'm not saying we should tax rich people more, but deny them most of their tax breaks (the ones they don't really deserve). At least the stupid ones, that they don't really deserve. I remember a long time ago some CEO got a tax write off meant for farmers, by planting a tree in his parking lot. Things like that, need to stop. Another one that was in my town, a church pastor tried to write off his new house as part of the church.[/QUOTE] Insurance companies need reform. We can all agree on that. Now, is that something I trust the government to do? No. Personally I think the citizenry is perfectly capable enough of forcing that kind of reform if they are focused and directed. Then again, there are insurance LAWS on the books. Things like needing car insurance to drive. Personally, if insurance companies are going to get government support, they deserve government regulation.

The problem with free or cheap healthcare is that everybody will use it too much. People might think they're "sick" so they go see the doctor because heck, it's free. This puts a lot of load on the doctors, and medical care now becomes scarce, and then it has to be rationed. And the government isn't going to pay doctors as much as they're being paid now, so fewer people will even want to be a doctor because they won't be making shit. From what I've heard, medical care was really cheap before the government created MediCare and Medicaid.

On the other hand, by no means do I trust the United States Government with my health.

Also, the rich shouldn't be the ones paying for all of this. A lot of small business owners can be considered rich, and they should not have to pay more taxes than they already do. My friend's parents run a small trucking company, and they make more than enough to be considered rich (more than $250,000 a year), and most of their money goes back into their company to pay employees, maintenance on trucks and stuff like that. And if you saw their house, it wouldn't look like they owned a trucking company and made more than $250,000 a year. They're house is pretty small, and they really don't have that much money.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;15950556]The problem with free or cheap healthcare is that everybody will use it too much. People might think they're "sick" so they go see the doctor because heck, it's free. This puts a lot of load on the doctors, and medical care now becomes scarce, and then it has to be rationed. And the government isn't going to pay doctors as much as they're being paid now, so fewer people will even want to be a doctor because they won't be making shit.[/QUOTE] Conversely, you might see the rise of a lower paid medical professional who determines the severity of a patient's ills prior to sending them to a real doctor. It's conjecture, one can spin the "what ifs" either way.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;15950240]So, you're trying to say we should make rich people feel guilty with something that is completely subjective to give up something that is absolute?[/QUOTE] Im saying that it just seems so so wrong when a very small percentage of people have a huge fuck ton of money and then the rest of the world has little in comparison. Not to make them feel guilty, but to feel content with a smaller sum, no one needs to be in possession of a 40k a week salary. Thats the problem with people and money, a primal greedy instinct that they will never fulfill, whereas some people are content to just be able to live others want more and more and will never be satisfied. I would point out that I am not picking on the rich people for the sake of jealousy, letting people be in possession of such vast quantities of money is stupid. Basically, the world needs to learn to be content, and not wanting more all the time.

[QUOTE=Chippay;15947848]poverty is not linked to laziness, you ignorant child[/QUOTE] just makin sure everyone reads this post [QUOTE=Chippay;15947848]poverty is not linked to laziness, you ignorant child[/QUOTE] few more times for good measure [QUOTE=Chippay;15947848]poverty is not linked to laziness, you ignorant child[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chippay;15947848]poverty is not linked to laziness, you ignorant child[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chippay;15947848]poverty is not linked to laziness, you ignorant child[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;15950991]just makin sure everyone reads this post few more times for good measure[/QUOTE] Whats your point? That everyone who is in poverty is in it due to their own laziness? If that is so, your are so super fucking naive.