House Democrats look at taxing the rich for health care - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Lankist;16101985]Whats the asterisk for? Is it like a pretty ribbon on the word[/QUOTE] i was going to write a foot note but one of my favourite songs came up in iTunes. MEIN TEIL, NEIN! MEEEEIN TIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL, NIEN!

For a Jew you sure do like DJ Hizzitler

[QUOTE=thisispain;16101869]Socialism doesn't have to be big government. In fact, Libertarian Socialism is an actual ideology.[/QUOTE] Libertarian socialism belongs in the trash bin. It's as unpractical as anarcho-communism. [QUOTE=Lankist;16101873]Well considering modern government has become the most fuckupidest iteration of government thus far, I don't exactly trust my friendly neighborhood politicians to know what's best for my health.[/QUOTE] I think I can sympathize, I wouldn't trust a corrupt politician in government taking care of my healthcare nor would I trust a CEO focused on profit. I guess maybe I shouldn't have entered this debate, as now I've been sucked in to defending national health care within a society run by a government corrupted by the interests of capital. Sort of out of my region of politics, I think.

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102028]Libertarian socialism belongs in the trash bin. It's as unpractical as anarcho-communism. I think I can sympathize, I wouldn't trust a corrupt politician in government taking care of my healthcare nor would I trust a CEO focused on profit. I guess maybe I shouldn't have entered this debate, as now I've been sucked in to defending national health care within a society run by a government corrupted by the interests of capital. Sort of out of my region of politics, I think.[/QUOTE] I trust a CEO more considering he can actually be taken to criminal court and given a 150 year sentence. When's the last time a corrupt politician went to criminal court at all? Shit, Nixon himself got acquitted immediately, despite massive public outrage nothing was ever done about it.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;15941449]well I think poor people not dying of preventable diseases is a little more important than a rich person's second vacation home[/QUOTE] Because eventually the poor will end up footing the bill as the cost of everything else climbs as the rich attempt to offset their losses from the taxes. Granted it doesn't really work backwards, as we learned over the Bush years.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16102063]I trust a CEO more considering he can actually be taken to criminal court and given a 150 year sentence.[/quote] Heh, hardly. Do you know how long it takes to actually take a CEO to court? It's not even worth the effort. They're practically able to do as they please, as long as it doesn't hurt other investors, like what Madoff did. [QUOTE=Lankist;16102063]When's the last time a corrupt politician went to criminal court at all?[/QUOTE] Blagojevich?

Lankist, what the hell is that green mark in the corner of your avatar? On topic- uh...

[QUOTE=ryandaniels;16102198]Lankist, what the hell is that green mark in the corner of your avatar? On topic- uh...[/QUOTE] It's an indicator for a level 3 item in Eve, I think. Also, more on topic. Screw Obama for raising my, and my parent's tax rates by 4%. He is supposed to be saving the economy right?

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102146]Heh, hardly. Do you know how long it takes to actually take a CEO to court? It's not even worth the effort. They're practically able to do as they please, as long as it doesn't hurt other investors, like what Madoff did.[/quote] Better a long time than never at all. [quote]Blagojevich?[/QUOTE] Oh please. A governor is nobody. I'm talking the people actually making these decisions, the people who would be managing national anything. Blagowhatever didn't cause any real damage that could be proven and was essentially sent a formal letter telling him everyone would appreciate it if he left office. And Blagowhatever wasn't taken to criminal court, and wasn't charged with any crimes. He was simply removed from office and let loose. I'm talking populist rage, proverbially hanging men in suits from the rafters. How often does that happen with our politicians? Even if we figure out someone is corrupt, we forget about it in a week and they're set free with their millions of dollars. That shit happens with CEO's, all the time. [editline]04:02PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ryandaniels;16102198]Lankist, what the hell is that green mark in the corner of your avatar? On topic- uh...[/QUOTE] It means I have herpes

[QUOTE=Evilan;16102226]It's an indicator for a level 3 item in Eve, I think.[/QUOTE] Ah. I really want to get into eve, but I don't think I have the time to give. /derail [editline]02:04PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;16102264] It means I have herpes[/QUOTE] Shit, should I get tested..?

[QUOTE=Lankist;16102264]Better a long time than never at all.[/quote] I think you'd be surprised at the lengths business owners can and would do it get out of it. [QUOTE=Lankist;16102264]Oh please. A governor is nobody. I'm talking the people actually making these decisions, the people who would be managing national anything.[/quote] A governor is somebody (a seat on a senate isn't a small thing). But other then that I'm not sure. Makes me wonder how shocked people would be if we did an anti-corruption investigation into the government as a whole. [QUOTE=Lankist;16102264]And Blagowhatever wasn't taken to criminal court, and wasn't charged with any crimes. He was simply removed from office and let loose. I'm talking populist rage, proverbially hanging men in suits from the rafters. How often does that happen with our politicians? Even if we figure out someone is corrupt, we forget about it in a week and they're set free with their millions of dollars.[/quote] Oh well. I can't think of the last time that happened and I doubt many business owners who supported and helped officials get in office would want them to be discovered either (lobbying isn't a popular idea). Again, makes me wonder what we would find if we had a big investigation to government corruption.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of fucked up shit with executives having politicians in their pockets, and there's a fuckload of corruption in our government right at the surface. Only instead of fucking with the executives I think we need to fuck with the political structure, make it more possible for people who aren't millionaires and aren't endorsed by massive corporations to get into office. Of course, the best way to do THAT is to get rid of the Two-Party bullshit.

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102028]Libertarian socialism belongs in the trash bin. It's as unpractical as anarcho-communism.[/QUOTE] But socialism is a theory, and I was stating that socialism is not exclusively a right-wing statist philosophy.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16102470]Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of fucked up shit with executives having politicians in their pockets, and there's a fuckload of corruption in our government right at the surface. Only instead of fucking with the executives I think we need to fuck with the political structure, make it more possible for people who aren't millionaires and aren't endorsed by massive corporations to get into office. Of course, the best way to do THAT is to get rid of the Two-Party bullshit.[/QUOTE] I absolutely agree! I've always considered libertarianism to be the logical next-step for people who are angered and want big change with our politics. At least, that's what it might be like for people like you and me, not failed republicans and business owners that want less restrictions. [QUOTE=thisispain;16102720]But socialism is a theory, and I was stating that socialism is not exclusively a right-wing statist philosophy.[/QUOTE] It is, and if someone were to examine that theory they would quickly realize why its impractical :v:

Eh, if I was rich I wouldn't want them taxing me for other peoples expenses, I'd go to some other country.

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102729]I absolutely agree! I've always considered libertarianism to be the logical next-step for people who are angered and want big change with our politics. At least, that's what it might be like for people like you and me, not failed republicans and business owners that want less restrictions.[/QUOTE] I want big chance in social politics, as in, no social politics. [QUOTE=Conscript;16102729]It is, and if someone were to examine that theory they would quickly realize why its impractical :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah a lot of theory is impractical. Pure socialism is as well.

[QUOTE=thisispain;16102770]I want big chance in social politics, as in, no social politics.[/quote] Eh, there's always going to be 'social' politics. As long as there are different ideas on even the most minor of things, there will be politics. [QUOTE=thisispain;16102770]Yeah a lot of theory is impractical. Pure socialism is as well.[/QUOTE] Oh no you didn't. But I'll get into that if you want to, just not in this thread.

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102831]Eh, there's always going to be 'social' politics. As long as there are different ideas on even the most minor of things, there will be politics.[/QUOTE] fuck that If two dudes want to stick it or if two lesbo's want to lick it, then get the fuck out government peace [QUOTE=Conscript;16102831]Oh no you didn't. But I'll get into that if you want to, just not in this thread.[/QUOTE] Oh come on, when has pure socialism even worked?

[QUOTE=Conscript;16102729]I absolutely agree! I've always considered libertarianism to be the logical next-step for people who are angered and want big change with our politics. At least, that's what it might be like for people like you and me, not failed republicans and business owners that want less restrictions.[/QUOTE] Nah, we Libertarians just want to limit possibility of corruption or abuse for the sake of individualism. That's why I'm always talking about how shitty the "Greater Good" idea is. We hover around the idea that the individual is more important than the whole, whether that individual be rich, poor or average. We aren't big on taxing the rich unfairly, but we aren't big on taxing the poor or middle class either. Whatever gives the individual more power over their livelihoods, regardless of the context, Libertarians want that. If that means games, guns, drugs, cheap booze and cigarettes or a castrated government, so be it. Really, it all boils down to how competent you can really expect your government to be. Health care reform isn't a bad idea on paper, but before we funnel those billions into the pockets of our politicians, you gotta' think. Is this shit really going to be used properly? Can we trust our politicians (the ones who, you know, sign their own checks,) to use that shit in the manner that's best for US and not for themselves or their party? Can we trust a politician, even a sincere one, to do right by the rights of the individual? When you get right down to it and you look at what "good" acts have been passed for similar justifications, shit like the Endangered Species act, USAPATRIOT, the stimulus and bailouts, how many of those have actually accomplished what they set out to do. And how many have been twisted and manipulated because of the loose language like "etc," "other purposes," and "by any means necessary" to accomplish political goals for the PARTY rather than the people? Just look at our Supreme Court for instance. We are talking about an institution that is supposed to bring unbiased justice, and what do we talk about? We talk about which party which Justice subscribes to! That shit shouldn't matter, it's a COURT. We've got our heads so far up our asses these days that we don't see it when our leaders have the interests of a profit-mongering party in mind rather than the interests of the nation and its people. That's one thing I honestly respect Bush for. I don't like the guy personally, I don't like his politics and I disagree with just about everything he said, but goddamnit he had the balls to say "Fuck y'all, I'll do what I think is right." It's just too bad he thought wrong. If there were somebody in US politics that had the brains of Jefferson and the balls of Bush, I would bow down to our new supreme leader.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16102946]Nah, we Libertarians just want to limit possibility of corruption or abuse for the sake of individualism. That's why I'm always talking about how shitty the "Greater Good" idea is. We hover around the idea that the individual is more important than the whole, whether that individual be rich, poor or average. We aren't big on taxing the rich unfairly, but we aren't big on taxing the poor or middle class either. Whatever gives the individual more power over their livelihoods, regardless of the context, Libertarians want that. If that means games, guns, drugs, cheap booze and cigarettes or a castrated government, so be it. Really, it all boils down to how competent you can really expect your government to be. Health care reform isn't a bad idea on paper, but before we funnel those billions into the pockets of our politicians, you gotta' think. Is this shit really going to be used properly? Can we trust our politicians (the ones who, you know, sign their own checks,) to use that shit in the manner that's best for US and not for themselves or their party? Can we trust a politician, even a sincere one, to do right by the rights of the individual? When you get right down to it and you look at what "good" acts have been passed for similar justifications, shit like the Endangered Species act, USAPATRIOT, the stimulus and bailouts, how many of those have actually accomplished what they set out to do. And how many have been twisted and manipulated because of the loose language like "etc," "other purposes," and "by any means necessary" to accomplish political goals for the PARTY rather than the people? Just look at our Supreme Court for instance. We are talking about an institution that is supposed to bring unbiased justice, and what do we talk about? We talk about which party which Justice subscribes to! That shit shouldn't matter, it's a COURT. We've got our heads so far up our asses these days that we don't see it when our leaders have the interests of a profit-mongering party in mind rather than the interests of the nation and its people. That's one thing I honestly respect Bush for. I don't like the guy personally, I don't like his politics and I disagree with just about everything he said, but goddamnit he had the balls to say "Fuck y'all, I'll do what I think is right." It's just too bad he thought wrong.[/QUOTE] you are making me look bad

Because I'm right or I sound crazy.

[QUOTE=thisispain;16102886]fuck that If two dudes want to stick it or if two lesbo's want to lick it, then get the fuck out government peace[/quote] that's very very immoral and unnatural you silly free marketer [QUOTE=thisispain;16102886]Oh come on, when has pure socialism even worked?[/QUOTE] Paris commune? What kind of examples do you want? Where people worked in a decentralized, collective society that socialism is so very much based on? Well, then, that goes far beyond the 20th and 19th century. On another note, I don't think 20th century 'socialist' countries were exactly on even grounds. The USSR was a pointless bureaucracy sparked from centralized power(and it was invaded and economically-ruined by foreign world powers like the UK, France, and the US when they intervened in the civil war), China and the other asian 'socialist' countries were just sparked by nationalism (see: Mao's alliance with the kuomintang). The warsaw pact was a buffer zone for a worried soviet bureaucracy, not very much socialist in any way themselves, which is what let people like Ceausescu get in power. Cuba slides into the same category as china, although not so much. In addition, the arguments against why socialism doesn't work (i.e. no incentives, people can't work in a collective environment, etc.) have been debunked as far I know. If they weren't, I'd be a libertarian, not a socialist. I'd be more then happy to explain them to you. [QUOTE=Lankist;16102946]Nah, we Libertarians just want to limit possibility of corruption or abuse for the sake of individualism. That's why I'm always talking about how shitty the "Greater Good" idea is. We hover around the idea that the individual is more important than the whole, whether that individual be rich, poor or average. We aren't big on taxing the rich unfairly, but we aren't big on taxing the poor or middle class either. Whatever gives the individual more power over their livelihoods, regardless of the context, Libertarians want that. If that means games, guns, drugs, cheap booze and cigarettes or a castrated government, so be it. Really, it all boils down to how competent you can really expect your government to be. Health care reform isn't a bad idea on paper, but before we funnel those billions into the pockets of our politicians, you gotta' think. Is this shit really going to be used properly? Can we trust our politicians (the ones who, you know, sign their own checks,) to use that shit in the manner that's best for US and not for themselves or their party? Can we trust a politician, even a sincere one, to do right by the rights of the individual? When you get right down to it and you look at what "good" acts have been passed for similar justifications, shit like the Endangered Species act, USAPATRIOT, the stimulus and bailouts, how many of those have actually accomplished what they set out to do. And how many have been twisted and manipulated because of the loose language like "etc," "other purposes," and "by any means necessary" to accomplish political goals for the PARTY rather than the people? Just look at our Supreme Court for instance. We are talking about an institution that is supposed to bring unbiased justice, and what do we talk about? We talk about which party which Justice subscribes to! That shit shouldn't matter, it's a COURT. We've got our heads so far up our asses these days that we don't see it when our leaders have the interests of a profit-mongering party in mind rather than the interests of the nation and its people. That's one thing I honestly respect Bush for. I don't like the guy personally, I don't like his politics and I disagree with just about everything he said, but goddamnit he had the balls to say "Fuck y'all, I'll do what I think is right." It's just too bad he thought wrong. If there were somebody in US politics that had the brains of Jefferson and the balls of Bush, I would bow down to our new supreme leader.[/QUOTE] That's a pretty long reply. But I'm aware of what libertarians stand for, I was just pointing out how many average people are attracted to libertarianism, as a solution to government corruption and societal mishandling, not necessarily libertarianism's individualist notions (though many people are attracted to that regardless). I like to stress that if I was not a socialist, I would be a libertarian.

You might not be complaining now, but wait until they move to taxing the middle class.

[QUOTE=Wordsworth;16102730]Eh, if I was rich I wouldn't want them taxing me for other peoples expenses, I'd go to some other country.[/QUOTE] I would. I use a public healthcare system, and even when i am earning 50k a year i'll be paying my taxes to allow that to run. If it can work in the UK, why can't it work in the US. You have the people to support the funding, and plenty of people can be given a chance in life.

[QUOTE=Combin0wnage;16103322]You might not be complaining now, but wait until they move to taxing the middle class.[/QUOTE] because the middle class isnt taxed at all

[QUOTE=thisispain;16103427]because the middle class isnt taxed at all[/QUOTE] OH of course not :downs:

Ehh, as a libertarian I don't believe this should happen, but I don't see many other ways this could be paid for. The tax will only affect people that make over $500,000 per year, which if you think about it, could be anyone with a business. I think congress is wasting their time and putting too much on the government's plate and wasting too much money, and should focus on other more plausible methods of health care reform that don't cost nearly as much. But the republicans are just sitting on their asses blaming and ridiculing Obama and getting nowhere with their own legislation and bawling over the dems plan. Idiots I say!

[QUOTE=Lostangeles4;16110249]Ehh, as a libertarian I don't believe this should happen, but I don't see many other ways this could be paid for. The tax will only affect people that make over $500,000 per year, which if you think about it, could be anyone with a business. I think congress is wasting their time and putting too much on the government's plate and wasting too much money, and should focus on other more plausible methods of health care reform that don't cost nearly as much. But the republicans are just sitting on their asses blaming and ridiculing Obama and getting nowhere with their own legislation and bawling over the dems plan. Idiots I say![/QUOTE] You realise that there are less than 40 Republicans in Congress right? That means that they have very little say in Congress because Democrats have an overwhelming majority. Republicans at this point can't even pull a filibuster to pass something off. Republicans have every right to bash Obama for not including them in governmental decisions. That's about all that can be done by them right now.

[QUOTE=thisispain;16101809]lankist wants his cigs[/QUOTE] how's the bridgewater?

Those that become rich look for ways to stay rich. These words are true.